ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[NativeAtlantan]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well, if he can turn a $3 million profit off two acres of raw land in two years that's not a bad deal at all.

just because he might sell the land for 3 more than he paid for it, doesn't mean he turns a profit.

[cybele]

True. In today's market he may wind up taking a loss on the deal.

[A-town]

That's why I think he should wait then restart construction.

[ajdelo]

So with all of the discussions on the streetcar lately, it reminded me of the "World Class Transit" proposal from Citizen's For Progressive Transit http://www.cfpt.org/documents/worldclass_map.pdf.

Now I know that something like this would take decades to complete and billions of dollars in funds, taxes, donations, etc. But as a native Atlantan (meaning I was born and raised here and chose to remain here), I really really would love something like this to come to fruition and would be willing to pay additional taxes to have it happen (heck, I already pay for MARTA as a DeKalb county resident anyways).

According to this proposal, I'd be right next to the Stone Mountain access and not that far from the Tucker line and I could conveniently make it to work in Buckhead and get pretty much anywhere in the city relatively easily without ever needing to get in my car. I ride MARTA in the winter, primarily because it only takes me 30 minutes to get to work in the summer if I drive and I enjoy getting home early with the extra sunlight, so I am no stranger to taking transit.

But why is it so hard for a city the size of Atlanta to not think progressively when it comes to transit? It can't just be the government. Why is there such a lack of support from residents and a lack of public information available to the communities especially in the communities that would benefit the most? It just seems to me that long term, then entire region and city would benefit ten-fold from a transit system such as this.

[popewiz]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^ I think it's probably just the recession, and I bet things will pick up in a couple of years. There were also a few things that closed recently in the base of Spire including Fune Sushi Bar, and the Athlete's Foot closed in Plaza Midtown.

It's all been balanced by the opening of the new restaurants at 12th and midtown, as well as the midtown diner on 10th. Most of the restaurants that have closed have almost immediately been replaced (Nona Mia took the place of Donatos, Prickly Pear took the place of Amore, etc).

So, I still have high hopes for the midtown mile, just not in this economy.

Didn't Nona Mia take the place of Sweet Devil Moon? I loved that place, the tapas were relatively cheap and the sangria was great. I'm really disappointed that it was replaced by a mediocre Italian place.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by popewiz

Didn't Nona Mia take the place of Sweet Devil Moon? I loved that place, the tapas were relatively cheap and the sangria was great. I'm really disappointed that it was replaced by a mediocre Italian place.

Yeah you're right; although I think Nonna Mia has really good pizza.

[alleystreetindustry]

Originally Posted by ajdelo

But why is it so hard for a city the size of Atlanta to not think progressively when it comes to transit? It can't just be the government. Why is there such a lack of support from residents and a lack of public information available to the communities especially in the communities that would benefit the most? It just seems to me that long term, then entire region and city would benefit ten-fold from a transit system such as this.

it is a horrific combination of automobile love, too many separate government agencies, a [still] large group of people that have out of date opinions, and the cheap that dont want a single tax to be raised their entire life.

[popewiz]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Yeah you're right; although I think Nonna Mia has really good pizza.

I haven't actually tried their pizza so maybe I've spoken too soon.

[UVAsuperman]

This topic isn't "skyscraper" related but does concern some construction in Atlanta: the owners of former club Vision are seeking approval to open a new 20,000 square foot combo nightclub and lounge at Peachtree and 11th (directly across 11th from the soon-to-open Loews hotel). I'm sure many of you that live, work, and play in the Midtown community already know about this issue. There is a website and online petition should you feel the same way about this potential establishment. Please pass this information on to your neighbors and friends in Midtown.

[BlueSangha]

Well, I for one do not think that keeping a nightclub from opening is going to keep your neighborhood safe. I personally think that midtown could use a little night life. I think it's funny that the website has images of whitebread america all over it with its wedding rings and white faces. Personally as a white gay male, images like that make me feel a little uneasy and rings of racism and homophobia. If you don't like the city life style, you could always move back to the suburbs. I say open this night club-let the party begin.

[UVAsuperman]

My issue with it is traffic and noise. Crime happens everywhere--it happens all over Midtown already. If it happens more at the corner of Peachtree and 11th in a few months, I don't really care because I won't be standing there. But I will be trying to sleep in my condo and there will be increased noise from the street. I didn't have anything to do with the website--just posting, really to get the petition out there for people. I think Midtown has a lot of nightlife--more so now than Downtown or Buckhead, particularly if you include Virginia-Highlands in the equation. The issue here is that this establishment brings negative externalities (the noise and traffic, perhaps among other things) that detract from encouraging people to live in Midtown.

[jaypkatl]

SERIOUSLY - If you dont want traffic & noice - DONT LIVE IN THE CITY. A city is traffic & noise. Its also nightlife!! I love all the contruction that has happened in midtown but HATE the fact that midtown lost ALL its nightlife and the suburbenites are trying to kill it even further. You are out of your mind!

[wjc]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

Well, I for one do not think that keeping a nightclub from opening is going to keep your neighborhood safe. I personally think that midtown could use a little night life. I think it's funny that the website has images of whitebread america all over it with its wedding rings and white faces. Personally as a white gay male, images like that make me feel a little uneasy and rings of racism and homophobia. If you don't like the city life style, you could always move back to the suburbs. I say open this night club-let the party begin.

Yeah, just because it is a night club doesn't mean that it is going to be unsafe.

Plus, not to say that there hasn't been, but I haven't heard anything trouble about Lotus/T&G in Lindberg.

And I also agree with the remarks about the website. That is one scary website that is dripping with 'protection of family values.' And really, what are the rings supposed to mean?

I think I may call that number and let them know that I wouldn't mind the club opening.



Slightly off topic, and on a very sad note, Patrick84 has moved to Chicago. Hopefully he will still visit us in the Atlanta section - because this city is his true home.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by wjc

Slightly off topic, and on a very sad note, Patrick84 has moved to Chicago. Hopefully he will still visit us in the Atlanta section - because this city is his true home.

I live in Chicago too....but still consider Atlanta my home.
...which is why I keep up with construction in this thread, but not really in the Chicago one...

[briantech]

Originally Posted by jaypkatl

SERIOUSLY - If you dont want traffic & noice - DONT LIVE IN THE CITY. A city is traffic & noise. Its also nightlife!! I love all the contruction that has happened in midtown but HATE the fact that midtown lost ALL its nightlife and the suburbenites are trying to kill it even further. You are out of your mind!

No one cares about the noise. People care about "thugs" showing up and shooting their guns off all over the place.

There's a big difference between nightlife, and giant mega clubs that exist for no other reason than for skanks to hook up with douchebags with giant egos and even bigger tempers.

[GThomas]

I was just robbed at gunpoint in Midtown at 6th and Peachtree... pinned up along a brick wall on 6th St with a friend of mine at 6:30 PM on Friday in daylight with people all over the street. I guess I had it coming living in Midtown and walking everywhere I want to go. I should have known better. Ghetto. I'm out of this town as soon as I can be.

[pdpmishap]

Originally Posted by jaypkatl

SERIOUSLY - If you dont want traffic & noice - DONT LIVE IN THE CITY. A city is traffic & noise. Its also nightlife!! I love all the contruction that has happened in midtown but HATE the fact that midtown lost ALL its nightlife and the suburbenites are trying to kill it even further. You are out of your mind!

No one's against night life or diversity for that matter. Bulldogs has been a Midtown staple for decades and condos surround it on all sides. I don't think anyone really minds its presence given it has been there since long before any of the residents. The issue is size and location. The proposed Vision is 19,000 sq ft making it nearly 50% bigger than Opera which already creates a serious nightmare for parking and foot traffic in the Crescent area which isn't even a residential area. Putting it on the corner next to a boutique hotel and fairly expensive condos is asking for trouble. When Vision was last open, that entire area was virtually all commercial properties or surface parking lots which made its impact far smaller than today.

Add in the fact that the number of parking spots left in those few blocks since 1010/Loews reduced them significantly which means more circling cars, illegal parking, and congestion. With that many club goers you're looking at at least some that will be hopping to other clubs on Crescent which will make Peachtree & 11th quite the pedestrian mess with two of the biggest clubs in the city bisecting Peachtree.

If you haven't noticed there aren't any night clubs left on Peachtree especially in Buckhead and that has made evening traffic far easier. There are still far more than our rightful share of people cruising and loitering in front of nightclubs. Put in the biggest club around w/o supporting parking and streets and you're looking at an immediate return to the early 2000's Buckhead traffic jams. I remember going to a club in Buckhead and having a female friend in the passenger seat propositioned by thugs hanging out on the corner selling stolen clothing at a traffic light. Just the presence of all those cars stuck trying to make it down Peachtree was enough to draw the worst Atlanta has to offer and I don't welcome it's return.

There's more than a few empty spots in the back street on Crescent where I think they could survive just as well w/o destroying huge swaths of property values. Vision was a great club in its day. It just doesn't belong on that section of Peachtree unless it can provide 500-1,000 parking spots for its patrons w/o charging $50 for valet.

[pdpmishap]

Originally Posted by GThomas

I was just robbed at gunpoint in Midtown at 6th and Peachtree... pinned up along a brick wall on 6th St with a friend of mine at 6:30 PM on Friday in daylight with people all over the street. I guess I had it coming living in Midtown and walking everywhere I want to go. I should have known better. Ghetto. I'm out of this town as soon as I can be.

At the old Loca Luna? Damn, that sucks. No one helped at all? Really hope they catch the bastard. Best of luck wherever you go.

[briantech]

Originally Posted by GThomas

I was just robbed at gunpoint in Midtown at 6th and Peachtree... pinned up along a brick wall on 6th St with a friend of mine at 6:30 PM on Friday in daylight with people all over the street. I guess I had it coming living in Midtown and walking everywhere I want to go. I should have known better. Ghetto. I'm out of this town as soon as I can be.

Hate to point this out, but crime occurs everywhere. In every city, in every suburb, in every country, in every town.

As long as we're throwing out personal anecdotes, a close friend of mine who lives in a very nice suburb in norcross was walking in front of a very suburban grocery store (publix) when two guys walked up to him and began beating the shit out of him in broad daylight.

A mom in a minivan at least screeched to a halt and yelled that she was going to call 911 before they could get his wallet.

They didn't run away. They didn't jump into a car. They said "ah fuck this" and slowly sauntered away. Like not a thing had happened.

Crime happens everywhere. If you think its exclusive to atlanta, then please, do me a favor, and go live in new york, and miami, and chicago, and LA, and detroit, and houston, and washington DC, and st louis, and cleveland, and san francisco, and orlando ...

Once you find a place that has no crime whatsoever please let us all know. Maybe you should start carrying a gun.

[Snakebit]

Originally Posted by pdpmishap

No one's against night life or diversity for that matter. Bulldogs has been a Midtown staple for decades and condos surround it on all sides. I don't think anyone really minds its presence given it has been there since long before any of the residents. The issue is size and location. The proposed Vision is 19,000 sq ft making it nearly 50% bigger than Opera which already creates a serious nightmare for parking and foot traffic in the Crescent area which isn't even a residential area. Putting it on the corner next to a boutique hotel and fairly expensive condos is asking for trouble. When Vision was last open, that entire area was virtually all commercial properties or surface parking lots which made its impact far smaller than today.

Add in the fact that the number of parking spots left in those few blocks since 1010/Loews reduced them significantly which means more circling cars, illegal parking, and congestion. With that many club goers you're looking at at least some that will be hopping to other clubs on Crescent which will make Peachtree & 11th quite the pedestrian mess with two of the biggest clubs in the city bisecting Peachtree.

If you haven't noticed there aren't any night clubs left on Peachtree especially in Buckhead and that has made evening traffic far easier. There are still far more than our rightful share of people cruising and loitering in front of nightclubs. Put in the biggest club around w/o supporting parking and streets and you're looking at an immediate return to the early 2000's Buckhead traffic jams. I remember going to a club in Buckhead and having a female friend in the passenger seat propositioned by thugs hanging out on the corner selling stolen clothing at a traffic light. Just the presence of all those cars stuck trying to make it down Peachtree was enough to draw the worst Atlanta has to offer and I don't welcome it's return.

There's more than a few empty spots in the back street on Crescent where I think they could survive just as well w/o destroying huge swaths of property values. Vision was a great club in its day. It just doesn't belong on that section of Peachtree unless it can provide 500-1,000 parking spots for its patrons w/o charging $50 for valet.

What about the parking lot connected to Lowe's hotel? You know, the one with several thousand car capacity right around the corner.

Look I'm no club guy, but you have to admit that people like them. Also, what the hell are you doing driving around atlanta from 11 PM to 2 AM on the weekends? Pardon my french, by nobody gives a damn about the pedestrian experience during the hours of operation of the bars in the area. What do you want, to be able to walk around peachtree at 11 PM on a saturday and nobody be there? If so, please move to Birmingham. What about the numerous people who would be employed by such a club? Do you really think that Vision would be going up there without the blessing of Lowe's and the powers that be? I hate to tell you, but I guarantee there will be some sort of bar IN the Lowe's hotel. Obviously, there will be traffic but I have to tell you something: there already is. Also, from 10-2 on the weekends it used to be difficult to find parking. But once again, with 12th and Midtown, it is a ton better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you and your female friends can have a night of the symphony, the oceanaire, and whatever else you would like to do without even noticing Vision. The crowd that goes to that area of Midtown is yuppy, has a lot of money, doesn't go out until at least 11 PM and is nothing like that which you have described or that used to terrorize Buckhead (with the prices they charge for drinks and parking, you have to have some money). 12th and Midtown, the condos in the area, and the business interests in Midtown are going to see one more attraction in an area that is quickly becoming the premier nightlife spot in the region (with Mandarin and phase three of 12th and Midtown it will only increase in popularity). As long as there is a basic modicum of safety and control, you will not only see Vision built but built with the blessing of its neighbors and the city. Any huge endeavor like this should be welcomed in this economy for the jobs it will create in its construction and those for its employees.