The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by niwell

As for the Ontario line, well, the current value study (or whatever it's called) reads an awful lot like any number of consultant reports I've essentially had to rewrite. The overall concept is good in theory, but the details haven't really been fleshed out at all, glaringly so in a few areas (Riverside...). I do believe things will go forward but at the same time we are due for a host of changes that may see to return certain alignments similar to what was previously done. I do think Doug wants it to be his legacy, whereas he doesn't care at all about Hamilton.
.

I sincerely hope the Ontario Line get's held up until we can boot Doug From office. It needs to be buried through the densely populated older Toronto hoods that Doug wants to screw over for not voting for him. Sadly we still have another 917 days of Damage he can do.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I dislike Ford ('s government) and his (their) ideals but, he definitely has become an undeserving whipping boy for the financial mess he inherited from Wynne. Cuts to transit is probably the easiest thing. We see the tens of millions being spent on marketing by unions to his relatively minor cuts to jobs in the public sector.

I agree that the Wynne government (and Trudeau for that matter) have lost control of public finances, but the Conservatives aren't all that great either. In a time when we need to utilize every dollar the best possible way, the central theme of their supposed beliefs, Ford canceled the revenue generating cap-and-trade, exposing the province to possible lawsuits, he's re-branding the province with new plates and slogans and logos, he's ready to blow any amount of money needed to cancel the Beer Store contracts in order to make booze more accessible to the masses, he's canceling wind turbine projects already under construction, more lawsuits... So many stupid ideas that will waste millions, possibly billions for no gain. At least with Wynne, we actually got something out of it.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree that the Wynne government (and Trudeau for that matter) have lost control of public finances, but the Conservatives aren't all that great either. In a time when we need to utilize every dollar the best possible way, the central theme of their supposed beliefs, Ford canceled the revenue generating cap-and-trade, exposing the province to possible lawsuits, he's re-branding the province with new plates and slogans and logos, he's ready to blow any amount of money needed to cancel the Beer Store contracts in order to make booze more accessible to the masses, he's canceling wind turbine projects already under construction, more lawsuits... So many stupid ideas that will waste millions, possibly billions for no gain. At least with Wynne, we actually got something out of it.

Remember when Harper bailed out GM and had stock in the company, which guaranteed they had to stay in Canada? Remember how he sold them to make the budget balance?

Or, remember when Harris leased a highway for 99 years to a private company who can raise the tolls as high as they can deem reasonable?

All parties are horrible. Some are worse than others. PCs/Conservatives tend to be worse.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The only reason(s) I can think of is that:
The amount of utility work was severely underestimated (in Ottawa there is a cleared ROW already)
The geotechnical investigations were not done in high enough detail and there are problems

If it's the utilities, don't they need to be replaced anyway? As for geotechnical considerations, I can't imagine that would cause such a big impact on a surface line.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree that the Wynne government (and Trudeau for that matter) have lost control of public finances, but the Conservatives aren't all that great either. In a time when we need to utilize every dollar the best possible way, the central theme of their supposed beliefs, Ford canceled the revenue generating cap-and-trade, exposing the province to possible lawsuits, he's re-branding the province with new plates and slogans and logos, he's ready to blow any amount of money needed to cancel the Beer Store contracts in order to make booze more accessible to the masses, he's canceling wind turbine projects already under construction, more lawsuits... So many stupid ideas that will waste millions, possibly billions for no gain. At least with Wynne, we actually got something out of it.

That was inferred the conservatives aren't any better. I certainly don't want to debate all the bonehead moves by either government or party. My point more rest with the spenders get away with more than those that have to make the cuts. Ford's predicament is a result of Wynne's free spending. I hope you did get something good out of Wynne. We will still be paying for it after Ford's administration.

The party also chose Ford as their leader over other candidates. Can we really hold that against them when Ontario voted a celebrity bouncer, drop out, teacher, misogynist that makes the phone call south of the border no big deal to a second term as leader of the nation? Then again, all the dictators of Canada have done worst than that phone call. Trudeau unwittingly has escalated it tenfold.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I sincerely hope the Ontario Line get's held up until we can boot Doug From office. It needs to be buried through the densely populated older Toronto hoods that Doug wants to screw over for not voting for him. Sadly we still have another 917 days of Damage he can do.

Forget it. We in the GTA need to do what it takes to get REM rolling. I just hope that ridiculously high fare won't be one of the repercussions. It's about time to take infrastructure building completely out of the hands of the politicians. Enough with petty politics.

The party also chose Ford as their leader over other candidates. Can we really hold that against them when Ontario voted a celebrity bouncer, drop out, teacher, misogynist that makes the phone call south of the border no big deal a second term as leader of the nation?

I will discuss more about this in the Ontario Politics thread.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

That was inferred the conservatives aren't any better. I certainly don't want to debate all the bonehead moves by either government or party. My point more rest with the spenders get away with more than those that have to make the cuts. Ford's predicament is a result of Wynne's free spending. I hope you did get something good out of Wynne. We will still be paying for it after Ford's administration.

The party also chose Ford as their leader over other candidates. Can we really hold that against them when Ontario voted a celebrity bouncer, drop out, teacher, misogynist that makes the phone call south of the border no big deal a second term as leader of the nation?

Again though, better to spend money and get something out of it than flush it down the toilet.

The Party didn't choose Ford. There were issues with the online voting that were not addressed. Chrstine Elliott had the majority of the votes. Not sure how Ford got in with fewer votes in a two candidate race, but he did. Very American.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-pc-leadership-results-1.4571699

The majority of Ontarians (59.37%) voted against Ford, but that's the issue with first-past-the-post at all levels.

If a Conservative Government wants to tackle the deficit, be my guest, but don't cut services and re-allocate those funds to destroy political foes. And for the love of God, if we're in a deficit, don't cut taxes!!! That goes for Trudeau too!!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Forget it. We in the GTA need to do what it takes to get REM rolling. I just hope that ridiculously high fare won't be one of the repercussions. It's about time to take infrastructure building completely out of the hands of the politicians. Enough with petty politics.



I will discuss more about this in the Ontario Politics thread.

Sorry I was so off topic.

I agree, Politicians have too much control over transit planning. Decisions are always based on politics and not the mobility needs of the regions. There's got to be a better system.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Again though, better to spend money and get something out of it than flush it down the toilet.

The Party didn't choose Ford. There were issues with the online voting that were not addressed. Chrstine Elliott had the majority of the votes. Not sure how Ford got in with fewer votes in a two candidate race, but he did. Very American.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-pc-leadership-results-1.4571699

The majority of Ontarians (59.37%) voted against Ford, but that's the issue with first-past-the-post at all levels.

If a Conservative Government wants to tackle the deficit, be my guest, but don't cut services and re-allocate those funds to destroy political foes. And for the love of God, if we're in a deficit, don't cut taxes!!! That goes for Trudeau too!!

Ah, the lasting legacy of the Harris/Reform era. Pay for tax cuts with deficit spending and permanently shrink the tax base.

What I hate about the whole Hamilton LRT cancellation is that Caroline Mulroney treated the public like idiots. To believe that the $1B cost escalated to $5.5B and to blame the Liberals is total nonsense. At least compare apples to apples. Don't include 30 years of operating and maintenance costs when making such a comparison. Ms. Mulroney has really lost my respect in how she addressed this.

[Dengler Avenue]

Anyway I have attempted to analyze the politics behind the current fiasco: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=8778397#post8778397.

Let's talk more there.

[GeneralLea]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Lets not forget DoFo and his brother delayed it by more then a decade. It was part of David Millers fully funded transit city that DoFo helped tear up.

I remember seeing that in the prior Transit City plan, completely forgot, mybad.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Ah, the lasting legacy of the Harris/Reform era. Pay for tax cuts with deficit spending and permanently shrink the tax base.

What I hate about the whole Hamilton LRT cancellation is that Caroline Mulroney treated the public like idiots. To believe that the $1B cost escalated to $5.5B and to blame the Liberals is total nonsense. At least compare apples to apples. Don't include 30 years of operating and maintenance costs when making such a comparison. Ms. Mulroney has really lost my respect in how she addressed this.

Caroline Mulroney didn't even have the decency or the guts to tell Hamilton that since she cancelled the press announcement at the last moment and ended up requesting police escort out of Hamilton.

Hamilton police called as LRT-cancelling news conference devolves into chaos
Announcement did not happen; MPP Caroline Mulroney leaves building with police escort


https://www.thespec.com/news-story/97781...ing-news-conference-devolves-into-chaos/

[J.OT13]

Here are the true estimates for the Hamilton LRT. Still seems a little high, but nowhere near as dramatic as the Ford puppets have suggested.


https://twitter.com/CBCQueensPark/status/1206691208267026432

Compared to Hurontario.

By contrast to the $5.5 billion price tag the Ford government now puts on the Hamilton LRT (14 km, 17 stops), the province recently awarded the contract to build the Hurontario LRT (18 km, 19 stops) and its budget seems to be $1.6 billion. #onpoli

https://twitter.com/CBCQueensPark/status/1206673224781701127

[ssiguy]

This is a total cop-out by Ford. If the LRT line is over budget, the province could very legitimately say that they pledged $1 billion and that is all they are getting. If that means the line has to be shortened or have fewer stations then so be it.

Letès be serious here kids, this is about politics. Despite how Torontonians view Ontarians people outside their borders as being hickish, Ford's electoral win was very much due to him getting the GTA vote. He got whipped off the map in London and Windsor and got very low numbers in Ottawa and Hamilton. He is going after his base which is why RER is still going ahead, the primary beneficiaries will be 905 & suburban 416 voters.

[SteelTown]

If they would have simply let the entire RFP process be completed as regularly scheduled Spring 2020, we would have found the exact cost of the LRT.

[flar]

Hamilton always getting screwed. Half the city is devastated at this news, the other half perversely revels in the city's continued failure.

[Nouvellecosse]

The Fords have always hated street-running rail routes while being much more supportive of subways. Maybe he canceled it with the intention of funding a new metro line.

[flar]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The Fords have always hated street-running rail routes while being much more supportive of subways. Maybe he canceled it with the intention of funding a new metro line.

I know you're half joking, but I'm pretty sure underground is not viable in Hamilton due to the low elevation relative to the lake and some underground waterways that drain from the Escarpment

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

If they would have simply let the entire RFP process be completed as regularly scheduled Spring 2020, we would have found the exact cost of the LRT.

That would give the public too much information for them to have an excuse to cancel it.

[TorontoDrew]

At 7:35 mins in you can see where Ford intends to drop the 1 billion to improve Hamilton Transit!

• Video Link