ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[ChasAl]

While I like the look of the new Azure on the Park tower, I'm not real fond of the base. Does there really need to be a curb cut on Piedmont? Why can't that traffic be diverted via 11th St? Also, with this being such a pedestrian area, the building and neighborhood would be so much better served with first floor retail that entire length of Piedmont.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^I'm not sure what that video is, but it's 9 months old and the renderings don't include the Crum and Forster facade (and aren't even in Atlanta - there's an ocean in the background). I think it's just a generic example from the company showing how their "iTwo" process works.

Yes, it could be nothing. However, what you think is an ocean is a brief delay in their software painting the trees (go back and watch). Second, as the press release stated the GA Tech High Performance Computer Center is now called iTWO Tower (see link I provided). Lastly, this video may be 9 months old, but the pictures on this forum of the project are 2+ years old. So I am not sure that is a valid reason to discount the possibility of this being real.

Again, this could be nothing.

Video 0:21 frame - looks like BofA and One Atlantic Center buildings in the background

BTW - The YouTube video was posted by the CEO of RIB (the software company who is moving to the GA Tech project)

[thepope117]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Yes, it could be nothing. However, what you think is an ocean is a brief delay in their software painting the trees (go back and watch). Second, as the press release stated the GA Tech High Performance Computer Center is now called iTWO Tower (see link I provided). Lastly, this video may be 9 months old, but the pictures on this forum of the project are 2+ years old. So I am not sure that is a valid reason to discount the possibility of this being real.

Again, this could be nothing.

Video 0:21 frame - looks like BofA and One Atlantic Center buildings in the background

BTW - The YouTube video was posted by the CEO of RIB (the software company who is moving to the GA Tech project)

The massing is all wrong in the video the buildings you referenced in the video were just steepled buildings on either side of the structure. The street lay out is also completely wrong. That said the press release is compelling.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^I'm not sure what that video is, but it's 9 months old and the renderings don't include the Crum and Forster facade (and aren't even in Atlanta - there's an ocean in the background). I think it's just a generic example from the company showing how their "iTwo" process works.

From previous experiences with farming out renderings like this is that sometimes it's not worth the effort to make it a shiny, as-accurate-as-possible image to convey what they're trying to show...the building. Sometimes context is just placed as a place-holder and often doesn't become revised for time/cost. That being said there is a massing piece nearby the towers that looks sorta like the Crum and Foster building...as if they utilized a site nearby.

But given the date of this being posted they might have been looking at the Tech Square area all along and just wanted to suggest it being built nearby if they didn't control that site.

[Ant131531]

Looks like the apartment project at the Southeast corner of the O4W Park will be starting soon. They filed plans.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/real_...ies-files-plans-for-latest.html?page=all

Incase, people forgot what the floor plan looked like:



Also, interesting tidbit from the bizjournals article:

Metro Atlanta could see up to 18,568 new apartment starts by the end of this year, with almost 60 percent of those slated for urban infill markets such as Buckhead, Midtown and neighborhoods including Old Fourth Ward, according to The Reid Report, a publication that tracks multifamily development.
Not all of those units may get underway this year. In 2014, metro Atlanta saw 10,928 apartment unit starts, according to the Reid Report.

I'm going to assume around 15k or so units this year...so nearly a 50% increase by 2014 for apartment units. It's expect to increase even more in 2016.

[ATL_J]

I'm all for more development. Continue to build until the demand isn't there and prices fall back down, but I do wish in "hot spots" like around OW4 Park they would have demanded more from developers. Even if requirements, like some ground floor retail, nicer facades, etc. scared off some developers, someone looking to make money would eventually invest. As it stands, these projects will shape the neighborhood for decades to come.

For example, Chamblee has been very hard on developers in their "downtown" area they're trying to build and demanding retail. The developers were complaining that they can't "make it work" having the retail sit empty, etc. That they HAD to be units there and no retail (we're talking about eliminating 5-20 units) and they were going to walk away. Well, the city called the bluff, and now they're doing it. I'd rather development come a bit slower to this area by demanding more from developers. They're still allowed to get rich, but if it means they don't make 1% more profit for the betterment of the community, I think that's a worthwhile cause.

/rant

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

I'm all for more development. Continue to build until the demand isn't there and prices fall back down, but I do wish in "hot spots" like around OW4 Park they would have demanded more from developers. Even if requirements, like some ground floor retail, nicer facades, etc. scared off some developers, someone looking to make money would eventually invest. As it stands, these projects will shape the neighborhood for decades to come.

For example, Chamblee has been very hard on developers in their "downtown" area they're trying to build and demanding retail. The developers were complaining that they can't "make it work" having the retail sit empty, etc. That they HAD to be units there and no retail (we're talking about eliminating 5-20 units) and they were going to walk away. Well, the city called the bluff, and now they're doing it. I'd rather development come a bit slower to this area by demanding more from developers. They're still allowed to get rich, but if it means they don't make 1% more profit for the betterment of the community, I think that's a worthwhile cause.

/rant

Have you ever worked with a developer and/or commercial real estate professional to understand the complexity of how projects are financed? The rentable price per sq ft on retail does not equate to the price per sq ft for rental units. Neither does construction costs equate either.

Also 2-3 units isn't that much (that's under 5K SF for retail), BUT say 20 units in a typical 300 unit project is absurdly high trade-off. And yes 300 is around the sweet-spot for many of these developments (over 400 and you have to submit to DRI).

By the way the Whole Foods project pretty much sums up the downside of the "not enough retail" stance with new developments...so Chamblee gets another sprawling suburban strip mall in an area that otherwise goes against their town's plans to make Peachtree Blvd a more dense gateway.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

I'm all for more development. Continue to build until the demand isn't there and prices fall back down, but I do wish in "hot spots" like around OW4 Park they would have demanded more from developers. Even if requirements, like some ground floor retail, nicer facades, etc. scared off some developers, someone looking to make money would eventually invest. As it stands, these projects will shape the neighborhood for decades to come.

For example, Chamblee has been very hard on developers in their "downtown" area they're trying to build and demanding retail. The developers were complaining that they can't "make it work" having the retail sit empty, etc. That they HAD to be units there and no retail (we're talking about eliminating 5-20 units) and they were going to walk away. Well, the city called the bluff, and now they're doing it. I'd rather development come a bit slower to this area by demanding more from developers. They're still allowed to get rich, but if it means they don't make 1% more profit for the betterment of the community, I think that's a worthwhile cause.

/rant

I agree and furthermore, I wish Cobb County would have told Home Depot to kiss their country @$$es demanding $200 Million or they would leave. If I were a developer, I would be marching up to Cobb County to get one of their sweetheart deals. It seems the land of the tea-baggers is a bastion for entitlements for the 1%.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Have you ever worked with a developer and/or commercial real estate professional to understand the complexity of how projects are financed? The rentable price per sq ft on retail does not equate to the price per sq ft for rental units. Neither does construction costs equate either.

Also 2-3 units isn't that much (that's under 5K SF for retail), BUT say 20 units in a typical 300 unit project is absurdly high trade-off. And yes 300 is around the sweet-spot for many of these developments (over 400 and you have to submit to DRI).

By the way the Whole Foods project pretty much sums up the downside of the "not enough retail" stance with new developments...so Chamblee gets another sprawling suburban strip mall in an area that otherwise goes against their town's plans to make Peachtree Blvd a more dense gateway.

I understand enough and I understand things can get complex, but I also know developers want to do what is easiest - whether that be obtaining financing, designing the property based on fitting nicely into a portfolio so they'll be able to sell their property quickly (as opposed to doing what is best for the community), etc. My point is, someone will come along, and while it may be more difficult, make it work. These areas are achieving extremely high rents and would be built even if rents were not near $2.00 / SF. Again, I understand providing retail, or forcing a higher quality build, can hurt the developers pro forma, but my point is these projects would still be successful with higher demands put on their developments. I don't have pity for the financing being "complex" and "difficult" while they make a killing. If they're scared, someone else would get creative and bring a better product to market.

And I wasn't referring to the Whole Foods development. I was referring to an actual apartment complex, with ground floor retail, that the developer tried to shirk Chamblee's demands. They have a long term vision and I applaud them for that. The developer tried to offer excuses like financing complexity and how he "couldn't make it work", but in the end he "somehow" found out to make it work, because it was always doable.

For whatever reason, that Whole Foods development doesn't fall into the area they're focusing on. You can find out more about Chamblee Town Center Livable Centers Imitative here: http://www.chambleega.com/DocumentCenter/View/251

[robertjhajek]

I think I remember reading that the new HO4WP development is going to have a restaurant underneath.

[Ant131531]

The apartment project I posted is going to have 4400 square feet of retail/restaurant space with a restaurant patio overlooking the park with 250 apartment units so it's decent.

[robertjhajek]

Cool. I could see a coffee shop or specialty store along with a resty.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^I'm not sure what that video is, but it's 9 months old and the renderings don't include the Crum and Forster facade (and aren't even in Atlanta - there's an ocean in the background). I think it's just a generic example from the company showing how their "iTwo" process works.

The developer for the project has not even been selected yet-- I doubt this means anything--

[Buck]

Everytime I drive past it or go to see the view from the top floor of my building, I'm always shocked at how fast the new Falcons Stadium is moving. Looking good!

[bigstick]

Awesome pic, it is amazing how fast this is going up...

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by scania

WOW!!! That's going to be NICE!

Did anyone notice that the 16 story tower that was to front 10th street is missing from the plans for Azure?

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

Did anyone notice that the 16 story tower that was to front 10th street is missing from the plans for Azure?

Maybe saved for a phase 2. I believe that tower was to be condos. I don't get why more condos don't start getting built; as someone looking to buy a condo, the market feels like it is pretty limited in choices. Ones that have caught my eye have flown off the market within days of showing up in listings before I have a chance to even check it out in person

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

Did anyone notice that the 16 story tower that was to front 10th street is missing from the plans for Azure?

Even during the DRC presentation it's been reiterated that the tower along 10th street would be a future phase. Hence it hasn't been really designed as part of the project currently. It was shown more for massing/connectivity to the parking deck.


http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/docs/major-development-projects-summary.pdf

[megalopolis]

Regarding Azure on the Park, even if the tower on 10th doesn't come until later, they're not going to leave the hole the way it is right now, are they? They've got to clean it up or something, right? It wouldn't be good to have a huge, ugly hole behind your new, 24-storey tower.

[AtlantaMustang]

I've been hoping something like this would go into this space.

Savi Provisions, formerly known as Savi Urban Market, a regional purveyor of gourmet foods, wine and spirits, has plans to open its fourth metro-Atlanta location in Midtown.

The corner space in Historic Commercial Row adjacent the Margaret Mitchel House, was formerly occupied by Atlanta-based design firm Son and Sons.

http://www.whatnowatlanta.com/2015/03/05...ce-adjacent-the-margaret-mitchell-house/