CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[K 22]

How's the construction of the new Washington/Wabash station going?

[Mr Downtown]

Looks like it will be finished several months before the Larrabee-Clinton Subway starts running.

[Via Chicago]

The Red Line support structure is literally crumbling. Walk in the alley on the northern section and there are pieces of concrete falling down everywhere. It needs to be done. The stations also need to be made ADA compliant. I support the project despite the complete headache its going to be.

My main concern is, does anyone know if construction will be permitted 24 hours a day? The L goes through my alley and Im terrified about 4 years of round the clock construction work. They would be jack hammering and dumping concrete into trucks at 3AM last year when the Purple Line project was underway, and it was impossible to get any sleep.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

My main concern is, does anyone know if construction will be permitted 24 hours a day? The L goes through my alley and Im terrified about 4 years of round the clock construction work. They would be jack hammering and dumping concrete into trucks at 3AM last year when the Purple Line project was underway, and it was impossible to get any sleep.

Construction noise outside of 8am-9pm is generally not permitted by City ordinance, but CTA projects and other public works are exempt from this restriction. Night work is sometimes needed to keep people moving during the day and avoid total shutdowns, although it may cause inconveniences for a few people who live near the jobsite.

It's really too early to talk about the staging and sequencing of the work, which would include things like working hours. That sort of thing is usually decided on before the project goes out to bid. They haven't even decided on what kind of structure will be used to support the tracks.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Looks like it will be finished several months before the Larrabee-Clinton Subway starts running.

I thought, in spite of CTA's various shortcomings and miseries, that we have a record that once projects are actually undertaken they usually progress on schedule and budget. Is there some major issue going on with this station?

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

The Red Line support structure is literally crumbling. Walk in the alley on the northern section and there are pieces of concrete falling down everywhere. It needs to be done. The stations also need to be made ADA compliant. I support the project despite the complete headache its going to be.

My main concern is, does anyone know if construction will be permitted 24 hours a day? The L goes through my alley and Im terrified about 4 years of round the clock construction work. They would be jack hammering and dumping concrete into trucks at 3AM last year when the Purple Line project was underway, and it was impossible to get any sleep.

I live near a station under construction and I can attest that, yes, they will work though the night well into 3AM. Backing up, dumping, shining bright lights etc., they aren't very considerate.

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Is there some major issue going on with [Washington & Wabash] station?

It's primarily a CDOT project, not CTA. I'm not sure what is making it so slow, except that it became a big $75 million showpiece project (rather than just building an L station), and that required utility relocation and massive new foundations and even new track support beams. They've already had several weekend reroutes and haven't even begun putting a canopy or platforms up. Based on this CDOT website, it looks like they've fallen at least six months behind.

[chicagopcclcar1]

[IMG][/IMG]

Current photo I took from the cab of a CTA charter on Sept. 10, 2016.

David Harrison

[Summers]

Good news because i remmember chichago as mess when it comes to traffic...

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

It's primarily a CDOT project, not CTA. I'm not sure what is making it so slow, except that it became a big $75 million showpiece project (rather than just building an L station), and that required utility relocation and massive new foundations and even new track support beams. They've already had several weekend reroutes and haven't even begun putting a canopy or platforms up. Based on this CDOT website, it looks like they've fallen at least six months behind.

The new track support beams are needed to allow for a proper-height mezzanine level that doesn't restrict vehicle clearance too much on Wabash. (Washington/Wells has a similar design). The unified mezzanine level, in turn, allows the station to operate with one attendant instead of two.

The station canopy is admittedly kinda flashy, but most of the design choices were done for pretty valid reasons IMO. The canopy is even sorta understandable given that this is the closest L stop to Millennium Park. It's a showpiece location in a way that, say, Quincy or LaSalle/Van Buren are not.

I wonder if part of the project budget includes compensation to the businesses along Wabash... that could balloon costs quickly.

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The new track support beams are needed to allow for a proper-height mezzanine level that doesn't restrict vehicle clearance too much on Wabash. (Washington/Wells has a similar design). The unified mezzanine level, in turn, allows the station to operate with one attendant instead of two.

The station canopy is admittedly kinda flashy, but most of the design choices were done for pretty valid reasons IMO. The canopy is even sorta understandable given that this is the closest L stopt to the to Millennium Park. It's a showpiece location in a way that, say, Quincy or LaSalle/Van Buren are not.

I wonder if part of the project budget includes compensation to the businesses along Wabash... that could balloon costs quickly.

I wonder why they decided to move the site a block further away from Randolph St., the closest entrance to Millennium Station, and the Pedway!
They could have placed it between Washington and Randolph, and directly connected it to the Pedway.

[jpIllInoIs]

Im thinking about the potential routes to serve as the OHare Express line.
Could the Forest Park blue line branch be useful with ite wide ROW?
There is a rail ramp immediately west of the Harlem station which raises up to meet the CN line which is rarely used and CN may apply to abandon it. There are alot of road level crossings north of here, but it goes directly up to the CN line at Rosemont and OHare Station.

[ardecila]

Yes, that's one option. This line is generally called the "Altenheim Sub" from Western Ave to Forest Park.

The expressway routing has some advantages over continuing on the Altenheim Sub between Central Ave and Western... you avoid a bunch of crumbling viaducts and don't have to build a flyover at the busy crossing at Rockwell. However, you have to find a place to terminate the trains, which means expensive tunnelling in the West Loop... I doubt O'Hare travelers want to be dumped at Halsted.

On the other hand, if you're investing hundreds of millions to build flyovers and extra tracks, I'd rather spend that money on turning the MD-W into a proper regional rail line to provide rapid transit to the northwest side. Finish grade-separating through Elmwood Park and Galewood, build a fourth track, and ease the curve at Pacific Junction by the end of the 606.

[jpIllInoIs]

Originally Posted by ardecila

... However, you have to find a place to terminate the trains, which means expensive tunnelling in the West Loop... I doubt O'Hare travelers want to be dumped at Halsted...

what if it stays in the Blue Line tunnel into the Loop and terminates at ...dunt dun da....Block 37

I did originally intend on this being a CTA service. So elevation would or street level like the brown line would be required north of Forest Park.
But would building on elevated line segment be cost competitve with other option.
ons?

[ardecila]

I don't think a CTA service is a good idea. At least, not using 'L' rolling stock.

CTA could certainly operate the service and offer transfers at Forest Park and downtown, but 30 minutes of jerky, swaying ride in an cramped L car doesn't exactly suggest a premium service to me. Not the best first impression for well-heeled travelers. And you can't make the cars any wider, taller or longer, or they won't fit in the Dearborn subway.

Besides, if you're just gonna use typical L rolling stock, why build a whole new line for only a few minutes of time savings? Why not just spend the money to increase headways on the Blue Line? Put in platform doors to speed up boarding, upgrade the signals, etc. That would actually reduce crowding, maybe to the point where CTA could install luggage racks and more seating in each car.

[SolarWind]

September 19, 2016

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Finish grade-separating through Elmwood Park and Galewood, build a fourth track, and ease the curve at Pacific Junction by the end of the 606.

How strong would local opposition likely be to the idea of a flyover/viaduct through Galewood and Elmwood Park?

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by denizen467

How strong would local opposition likely be to the idea of a flyover/viaduct through Galewood and Elmwood Park?

Probably pretty strong. Fortunately you've only got crossings every 1/2 mile, so it's not like a viaduct would cut off access any more than what's there already.

Personally I'd like to see a Winnetka-style trench...

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Probably pretty strong. Fortunately you've only got crossings every 1/2 mile, so it's not like a viaduct would cut off access any more than what's there already.

Hell no, they'd probably throw you a parade.

That's an active freight line and snarls up traffic all the time.
I think the problem would be one of engineering.

It crosses the DesPlaines river in River grove. You'd probably have to lower the tracks 50 feet to be deep enough to let the river flow over.
Any solution that raises or lowers the streets would likely only be feasible on the main streets which would still leave a slow zone because of the side streets and the close proximity of pedestrians.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

Hell no, they'd probably throw you a parade.

That's an active freight line and snarls up traffic all the time.
I think the problem would be one of engineering.

It crosses the DesPlaines river in River grove. You'd probably have to lower the tracks 50 feet to be deep enough to let the river flow over.
Any solution that raises or lowers the streets would likely only be feasible on the main streets which would still leave a slow zone because of the side streets and the close proximity of pedestrians.

I'm assuming the river bridge would remain at grade and the trench east of there, I guess River Road would need to be raised or lowered.