WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[1ajs]

this agreement was started under the cons

[WinCitySparky]

Meh I’m fine with it

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Meh I’m fine with it

You like paying high taxes and getting nothing in return? Because this is a direct example of how that happens.

[WinCitySparky]

North America is in the lowest tax era in 100 years chum, read a history book.

Something relatively positive is happening downtown and I’m here for it. Take your bitter outlook somewhere else.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

You like paying high taxes and getting nothing in return? Because this is a direct example of how that happens.

again the previous government hashed this deal out ndp just finished the due diligence also true north has been working with the government since doer and we have seen 10fold on the investments made with them id say its worth it and with the loss of the medical arts building we need this. theres demand and moany doctors who got sent to the edge of the cirty want back downtown

the last tidbit is based on work i did buildig internet infrastructure and talking to the owners of clinics that had to move.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Something relatively positive is happening downtown and I’m here for it. Take your bitter outlook somewhere else.

That's why I love the "ignore list" option here. I don't mind reading opinions that don't match my own, but some folks just regurgitate endless negativity.

[FactaNV]

Does anyone have a link to the full presser? I would like to watch but I can't find it anywhere.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

North America is in the lowest tax era in 100 years chum, read a history book.

Something relatively positive is happening downtown and I’m here for it. Take your bitter outlook somewhere else.

A) Fake news.
B) Appeal to tradition: Using previous mistakes to justify current ones.
C) Clearly you haven't had to use the health system. It has collapsed. Past tense. It collapsed because of undersupply and mismanagement, including fiscal waste. From all political parties. Fiscal waste, like this health tower, which is happening right in front of our eyes. Continued waste further decreases health quality and supply, or drives its price up. Or both.

Even if $77m/yr is the total operating cost, avg RE cost is about 20% of that. Or $15m/yr. Totaling $540m in capital/RE costs over the 35yr term. With nothing to show for it at the end, $540m gone. Poof.

For comparables:
-The currently constructed Neepawa Hospital is half the sqft as this "health tower" for only $127m, or $260m for equal sqft. It's cheap, because it's built in a literal field. So you could build 2 of these health towers with the same money, if they were built on non-prime land. And own, not lease.

-But that's comparing to a hospital, which has heavy medical equipment and building standards. This health tower is "primary care, addictions, dialysis". Apart from dialysis, primary care is basically an office building. Very minimal expensive equipment. So GoM is expensing $540m for 300,000sqft of basically office space. Yet 300 Main is 580,000sqft and was just built for $165m. On even more prime land than this. You could build three 300 Main's for the same money, totaling 6x the sqft of this health tower.

The math ain't mathing bud. And I ain't walking on eggshells to protect your or anyone else's feelings over accepting the hard truth.

This is an absolute taxpayer rip-off. So much so, I can't see how corruption isn't present.

[WinCitySparky]

Anyone who uses “fake news” as an argument screams ignore.

Take it to the Politics thread goon.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Anyone who uses “fake news” as an argument screams ignore.

That was a picture link, to not burden thread with a pic. But you didn't click, so now I have to. Your statement is literally false.

[1ajs]

land is such a small cost. and it doesnt matter where u go soon as the province goes shopping for these facilities land ur land skyrockets instantly hsc is having this trouble with land squaters around it hopping to get bought out for big poayday who dont maintian these propertes and dont care who they rent to

it takes planing and was happening under the last ndp going the cons came in and tossed all that out in the trash 20yrs of planning out the window what ur talking about was part of it and was happening slowly where we are atm

[Atrial78]

Bodaggin,

1) Have you considered the costs of the PanAm expansion? It acts as a private entity, but PanAM is actually a division of the WRHA. The cost of diagnostic imaging, surgical suites, procedural suites, equipment for the various clinics is quite significant. Not to mention, the cost of staffing for physicians, nurses, and all allied staff.

2) I recently had to use the health system for a sports injury. I was able to see my PCP, receive an EMG, start physical therapy, receive an MRI (within 6 weeks), and saw a neurologist all within the span of 2 months. I believe the timeframe was reasonable. The health system is overstressed because of rapid population growth that is outpacing the growth of healthcare staff. Yes, we need more inpatient beds and outpatient long-term care beds, but we need to be able to staff them too. The NDP's move to open more minor injury clinics and to hire 1k more health care workers is a step in the right direction.

3) Of course the building cost will be lower in Neepawa compared to Winnipeg. However, not all healthcare facilities are equal. Neepawa will have an ER, inpatient unit, and small surgical space. It is not a major trauma or treatment center like HSC and does not have the majority of specialists. The redeveloped Portage development itself will have primary care, walk in clinics, RAAM clinic, dialysis, advanced imaging, advanced imaging, and a large array of Orthopedics/Plastics/Pain/PT/associated clinics.

4) The Manitoba government is building/renovating many medical facilities throughout the province. However, it doesn't have an unlimited pot of money and can therefore get certain things done faster through a private-public partnership. Perhaps we would have waited several more years and the government could have built a facility there. However, we are now getting a tower built fairly quickly that could help provide more care faster and reshape downtown. TrueNorth will have a strong interest in keeping the area well maintained and safe.

5) Sure, we could built hospitals on the outskirts, but it doesn't make sense when we are trying to promote infill development and densification of the city. Why would we put resources far away from where people will live? In addition, one of the largest issues is maintaining staff in Manitoba. Young professionals want to live in a vibrant city and that means more areas like Osborne, the Exchange, and St. Boniface.

Perhaps you are correct on the costs. I haven't done the math, but it doesn't really seem like you have either. Before making large accusations like this, you should reach out to the city and get more information.

[Hockey]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

You like paying high taxes and getting nothing in return? Because this is a direct example of how that happens.

I like the projects and support the public investment. If it helps only a few, I still support it.

Modernizing 2 monolithic structures with health services and housing structures is a positive development IMO.

[cheswick]

There’s a community engagement today at portage place centre court if anyone is interested.

Edit:
Online version:
https://survey123.arcgis.com/share/f...23353175fa45d3

[pspeid]

^^That's pretty much what was promised, and I'm good with that.

I was wondering what the plans are for the old facades that were put on the back of PP when the place was built. Are they going to survive intact? It's a shame that almost no-one sees them, as they overlook kind of a back alley behind PP.

[1ajs]

that back ally was origonaly intened to be a residential strip of cafes and such

the apartments behind havent been managed proper so they never got the tenits to make it viable

[pegster]

Anyone have an idea of what the fate of the (still relatively new) Pitikwé skatepark might be, going forward?

I'm 100% supportive of there being a grocery store in that space, but the skatepark did seem like it could be a real force for good in the area.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by pegster

Anyone have an idea of what the fate of the (still relatively new) Pitikwé skatepark might be, going forward?

I'm 100% supportive of there being a grocery store in that space, but the skatepark did seem like it could be a real force for good in the area.

maybe the 3rd floor "community drop in space"?

[wags_in_the_peg]

for some reason I thought the buildings were all being demo, but I'm wrong, existing is staying / redeveloped on west wing and residential tower being added.

[1ajs]

theyre just redoing the skin and atrium layout