Portage and Main re-opening 2016

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Kronos

The point being is that a significant number of people who are eligible to vote on this question, in addition to those who are discussing this via social media, have not read this report, or have been only told of parts of the reports from others who have cherry picked certain details from the report to support which ever argument they are putting forth (which happens in many arguments right or wrong)

Exactly. And you have councillors like Jeff Browaty willfully and publicly lying on twitter, ignoring the reports of the studies, and spreading these lies to many people.

[P&M40BELOW]

Unfortunately this discussion has become too political. If Winnipegers had actually voted on the original plan for the MTS Centre and how it was funded, it probably wouldn’t have been built. I do recall all of the naysayers screaming about “save the Eatons building” and “why bother, the NHL will never come back!”.

Speaking of politics Janice Lukes is in favour of opening Portage and Main. At this point she is just against anything that Bowman is for.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

This isn't directed at anyone here specifically. But fucking seriously? Can't any of you naysayers not see what this could become? Portage and Main is known worldwide to anyone who follows hockey. And not only them. It's genuinely an iconic intersection, And that is a word I seldom use. Why don't you think this could not turn into a world class Times Square? No one thought that would happen there did they?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=old+t...4uwnAIl1JHkoM:

But it did, didn't it. It's like there's so many children here who have never looked at a book or investigated recent history.

Wake up.

Yup.

This is has been frustrating. This is another Friends of Fort Garry thing that has unfortunately took momentum, and the sad part is, Bowman agreed to a plebiscite to be on the ballot.

He should have stood his ground, and had he lost the upcoming election, at least he lost with some dignity, but now, he pretty much nailed his own coffin.

FFS. This sucks big time, and it pisses me off to no end.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

This isn't directed at anyone here specifically. But fucking seriously? Can't any of you naysayers not see what this could become? Portage and Main is known worldwide to anyone who follows hockey. And not only them. It's genuinely an iconic intersection, And that is a word I seldom use. Why don't you think this could not turn into a world class Times Square? No one thought that would happen there did they?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=old+t...4uwnAIl1JHkoM:

But it did, didn't it. It's like there's so many children here who have never looked at a book or investigated recent history.

Wake up.

Times square???

Ok I don't really have a strong opinion for whether opening or keeping P & M closed, but quit it. Comparing it with Times Square will make you lose all your credibility.

[Urban recluse]

Welcome to Winnipeg.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Times square???

Ok I don't really have a strong opinion for whether opening or keeping P & M closed, but quit it. Comparing it with Times Square will make you lose all your credibility.

Yeah but the claims put forth by the stay closed crowd tend to lower their credibility as well. No one is saying it's going to be times square. I think what OTA means is that it could become an iconic place in the same sort of style as times square. And frankly, I dont know why we shouldn't aim high with this and really make it the focal point of downtown. It's a place steeped in history too so it deserves a little more reverence that is currently given.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Yeah but the claims put forth by the stay closed crowd tend to lower their credibility as well. No one is saying it's going to be times square. I think what OTA means is that it could become an iconic place in the same sort of style as times square. And frankly, I dont know why we shouldn't aim high with this and really make it the focal point of downtown. It's a place steeped in history too so it deserves a little more reverence that is currently given.

I think you brought forth an excellent well laid out opinion Portage & Main needs to be showcased better than just a highway for people in the suburbs and bedroom communities.
Also, it is moldy, is crumbling and needs work anyways. The idea that we can never be like for example Times Square is because of the bitter, pessimistic attitude that is bred into WINNIPEGGERS. As mentioned, many never believed some new airport, arena and stadium could be done here let alone the NHL returning. Many said in the early 2000's nobody will go downtown to see hockey and that arena will be a white elephant.
Now it is one of the most successful in N America.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Times square???

Ok I don't really have a strong opinion for whether opening or keeping P & M closed, but quit it. Comparing it with Times Square will make you lose all your credibility.

Definition of analogy
plural analogies
1 a : a comparison of two otherwise unlike things based on resemblance of a particular aspect
b : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : similarity
2 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will probably agree in others
3 : correspondence between the members of pairs or sets of linguistic forms that serves as a basis for the creation of another form
4 : correspondence in function between anatomical parts of different structure and origin — compare homology

[buzzg]

Lol^

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Yeah but the claims put forth by the stay closed crowd tend to lower their credibility as well. No one is saying it's going to be times square. I think what OTA means is that it could become an iconic place in the same sort of style as times square. And frankly, I dont know why we shouldn't aim high with this and really make it the focal point of downtown. It's a place steeped in history too so it deserves a little more reverence that is currently given.

I've always considered Portage and Main an iconic place already (at least for Manitoba). I would be in favor of the intersection being open, but I doubt much will change if it does. After all, it is just an intersection. If Winnipeg wanted to aim high, they would have built an LRT going through downtown, and made the area far more pedestrian and cyclist friendly.

I would love to see downtown and the exchange attract young people, and to see it as an area worth living in, as opposed to the ghost town it becomes after 6 PM on weeknights. Just for the record, Times Square was well known and a tourist desination since the beginning of the 20th century, attracting millions of visitors per year. From the 60s to the 80s, the area became the red light district, and brought with it crime, drugs, prostitution, etc. However, in the 90s, the city initiated a aggressive effort to restore Times Square to it's former glory. Today, thanks to this effort, Times Square is one of the most popular attractions in NYC, drawing millions of tourists.






V-Day at Times Square







Times Square 1980s: Smut city



No more lap dances. The city revitalized Times Square 20 years ago, and now it is a tourist friendly destination

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I've always considered Portage and Main an iconic place already (at least for Manitoba). I would be in favor of the intersection being open, but I doubt much will change if it does. After all, it is just an intersection. If Winnipeg wanted to aim high, they would have built an LRT going through downtown, and made the area far more pedestrian and cyclist friendly.

I would love to see downtown and the exchange attract young people, and to see it as an area worth living in, as opposed to the ghost town it becomes after 6 PM on weeknights.

If more young people gets more engaged and learn how, and why Portage and Main was closed in the first place, then this whole issue would become more serious, and not scoring "political cookies" for the ones who don't give a flying f*ck and want it closed.

[Ando]

For those who would like to delve deeper into why governing by referendum is not a good idea and actually anti-democratic, here is a good article from the New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/05/w...on-santos.html

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Ando

For those who would like to delve deeper into why governing by referendum is not a good idea and actually anti-democratic, here is a good article from the New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/05/w...on-santos.html

Not surprisingly the answer is that people are too stupid to vote for things that the New York Times has decided that they should want.

[cllew]

And even if the vote is no there still will be millions spent on the intersection to rebuild the leaking foundations for the underground complex, and replace the escalators and wheelchair lifts are either at or very near end of useful life due to age and usage.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Not surprisingly the answer is that people are too stupid to vote for things that the New York Times has decided that they should want.

Um, sorry, unclear what you are actually trying to say.

[Bluenote]

Ok I don’t care if it’s opened or not. I do however care that the 4 corners are redone. The entrances redone. Streetscaping done. That will make a bigger difference then having some office workers a few months of the year cross it.

It’s not Times Square. It will never be because this messed up anti sign city wouldn’t allow it.
We finally are getting the tower DONE. Now let’s focus on the original plan and get that underground and above ground mall fixed up. Like ffs the votes as predicted are at 78% to leave it CLOSED. Deal with it. Now since it won’t get opened. Let’s try and get the city and the owners of all 4 corners to clean the place up and do what I said 100 times before.
Imagine bright well lite, well signed new entrances for the mall and concourse. Maybe with huge skylights to let the sun in. Heck they probably could put some even on the concrete islands of main.

But man stop beating a dead horse. Use your energy to renew it as it needs it.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Welcome to Winnipeg.

Yes, because only this kind of stupidity happen in Winnipeg. Only. Ever. Not Edmonton, not Halifax, hell not even in Omaha. Only in Winnipeg.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Ok I don’t care if it’s opened or not. I do however care that the 4 corners are redone. The entrances redone. Streetscaping done.

...

Let’s try and get the city and the owners of all 4 corners to clean the place up and do what I said 100 times before. Imagine bright well lite, well signed new entrances for the mall and concourse. Maybe with huge skylights to let the sun in. Heck they probably could put some even on the concrete islands of main.

The argument that the city shouldn't spend $11.5M to reopen P&M, but instead should spend substantially more than that to subsidize a privately owned underground mall is... well, it's a very distinctively Winnipeg argument.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

The argument that the city shouldn't spend $11.5M to reopen P&M, but instead should spend substantially more than that to subsidize a privately owned underground mall is... well, it's a very distinctively Winnipeg argument.

THE people of the city have spoken. They made the decision. Not city hall. So if you like. Go yell at your 78% of your friends as that’s where it stands now. Who want it kept closed.

And are we going to pull a TNS crap now about subsidies? Omfg company A pumps billions into city. City pumps 9 million back. What a shitty deal.
It’s the same for Artis right now. What the are doing will change PnM more then office workers crossing it.

And y’all need to get over this place being some sacred ground like Times Square. It’s an old ox cart junction and that’s about it. And now it’s an old car junction. It’s always been about transportation.

Either way. It’s staying CLOSEd. So move one on how to make what we got better instead of bitching about the mall. You must be one of those protesting the tower going up to I guess. Since the MALL amd tower are one in the same...........

Ugggggg winnipegers always want to bitch.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Why not just make it easier and more pleasant to cross underground? That seems like the obvious win-win on this one.

Not sure how one would do that. Just let people cross the street. Yeesh.