Canucks Central

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Another comment I'd like to make about the guy who got flashbanged in the groin..... if the VPD actually threw the flash bang there on purpose, they might be in big trouble because of that. I would understand if there was proof that the guy was a rioter who had committed a crime, but there isn't any. In that person's defense, I think the VPD may have definitely been doing something wrong there; trying to control a riot by purposely hurting people in such ways doesn't solve anything.

He was there, in the front line. That is proof enough, caught on tape.

Personally, I hope he is so injured he can't plague mankind with his spawn. I wish this had happened to about 200 more people.

In a riot situation, anyone stupid enough to walk towards the police and/or hang out at the front of the crowd deserves whatever they get. It's like falling while mountain climbing, it's your fault for being in the wrong place and doing stupid things.

The police issued plenty of warnings throughout the night that if people didn't leave they would be gassed or banged. Every block they went they announced "move it or lose it"(paraphrased) before taking action. There were times when people would taunt the police and it actually makes me sad that they weren't shot with rubber bullets or bean bags or bitten by the dogs.

[SpongeG]

on the global morning news at 5:30 am when i watched - the on the street reporter said he had a group of guys come up to them and whine about how the police treated them and so the reporter said back to them "what do you expect" you were involved in a riot - or something to that affect - and the guys had no response and just walked away - they were desperately wanting sympathy

[xd_1771]

We have nothing to prove on whether he is a rioter or not. We also have little proof on what angle the camera is shooting from. Was he walking to the police or simply walking across an empty space in the crowd?

He seemed pretty innocent too. The fence falling down beside him startled him, which made him turn with an honest look of surprise for a moment; he may have not actually noticed he was walking into a crowd of police. Such confusion on where things are in such a riot/crowding in downtown would've been common. I've heard from people who have tried to escape the riot; you would get squashed, punched, strangled, and if lucky, pulled out by a nice man or a group of policemen. I wasn't there, but from what I heard, it was definitely not easy to get around or know what you were walking into.

The only thing I'm pointing out is that people can retaliate as such on police actions. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one lawsuit come up concerning the actions of the police; it happened in 94. If we knew he was a rioter & an offender, I would have no sympathy for the man who took it in the groin, but that was not the main point I was trying to make.

The police issued plenty of warnings throughout the night that if people didn't leave they would be gassed or banged. Every block they went they announced "move it or lose it"(paraphrased) before taking action. There were times when people would taunt the police and it actually makes me sad that they weren't shot with rubber bullets or bean bags or bitten by the dogs.

There was a lot of confusion about transit into and/or out of Vancouver, with many people convinced that outbound transit wasn't operating, despite efforts to let people know about it. For a couple of people I knew, me contacing them about the issue through text/social networking was the only way that they were able to know how/where to go in that big mess. Being at home and having a couple of monitors devoted to news videos & images does help out sometimes I guess. And with the noise and the crowdedness, you honestly can't expect to always be able to hear the police either when they say "move it or lose it".

the on the street reporter said he had a group of guys come up to them and whine about how the police treated them and so the reporter said back to them "what do you expect" you were involved in a riot - or something to that affect - and the guys had no response and just walked away - they were desperately wanting sympathy

Do we have any proof that these people were among the rioters? There were many innocent people in the mix of rioters, desperately trying to claw their way out of the city and into safety. With the mess that downtown was, it was likely hard to tell who was actually innocent and who wasn't. Many people may have been very much mistreated by both parties (rioters and police).

--------

It also seems social networking is playing a big part in identifying rioters this time around. I've heard of Jason Li already through the Post-riot clean-up page. People were being reported everywhere. We definitely didn't have that back in 94. Might make people more scared to initiate in riot as such, now that they can be easily identified.

[SpongeG]

global news has just reported that a number of people have turned themselves in after being seen on TV - I imagine some parents are encouraging them to do so

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

global news has just reported that a number of people have turned themselves in after being seen on TV - I imagine some parents are encouraging them to do so

I honestly find this to be the better way out. Jason Li is being horded by tons of people online who are working to find his address and every detail about his life. You can go the easy way out without any of this happening, which may not only compromise you but people related to you such as family and friends.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by giallo

^^ I commend you on trying, but honestly, it looked like a fruitless effort judging by the videos I've seen. Drunk teenagers in large groups can't be reasoned with. It just doesn't work unfortunately. It's too bad about your injuries. A beer on me when I'm back next month, jlousa.

This poor guy tries at the end of the video and gets pummeled.

• Video Link


I'm still raging about the riot and I'm on the other side of the ocean. My anger towards these jackasses won't be subsiding anytime soon.

Wow, there's like a couple of guys who are actually trying to stop the rioters. Brave people, very brave.

[SpongeG]

another guy identified:

Nathan Kotylak Water Polo All Star Lighting Police Car



Nathan Kotylak you’ve been judged by Captain Vancouver in violation of all that was a promising career as a water polo star. When I googled his name, Nathan was a star with a future. In one fell swoop he destroyed that. I’ve seen Nathan’s phone number posted online and realised that even amongst your friend’s (or exgf’s) they are outing you for being a punk.

http://publicshamingeternus.wordpress.co...water-polo-all-star-lighting-police-car/

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

seems like facebook is working - this dude KELLY JOHNSON from White Rock BC goes to VCC!

Great, probably on student loans.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

We have nothing to prove on whether he is a rioter or not. We also have little proof on what angle the camera is shooting from. Was he walking to the police or simply walking across an empty space in the crowd?

He seemed pretty innocent too. The fence falling down beside him startled him, which made him turn with an honest look of surprise for a moment; he may have not actually noticed he was walking into a crowd of police. Such confusion on where things are in such a riot/crowding in downtown would've been common. I've heard from people who have tried to escape the riot; you would get squashed, punched, strangled, and if lucky, pulled out by a nice man or a group of policemen. I wasn't there, but from what I heard, it was definitely not easy to get around or know what you were walking into.

The only thing I'm pointing out is that people can retaliate as such on police actions. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one lawsuit come up concerning the actions of the police; it happened in 94. If we knew he was a rioter & an offender, I would have no sympathy for the man who took it in the groin, but that was not the main point I was trying to make.


There was a lot of confusion about transit into and/or out of Vancouver, with many people convinced that outbound transit wasn't operating, despite efforts to let people know about it. For a couple of people I knew, me contacing them about the issue through text/social networking was the only way that they were able to know how/where to go in that big mess. Being at home and having a couple of monitors devoted to news videos & images does help out sometimes I guess. And with the noise and the crowdedness, you honestly can't expect to always be able to hear the police either when they say "move it or lose it".


Do we have any proof that these people were among the rioters? There were many innocent people in the mix of rioters, desperately trying to claw their way out of the city and into safety. With the mess that downtown was, it was likely hard to tell who was actually innocent and who wasn't. Many people may have been very much mistreated by both parties (rioters and police).

--------

It also seems social networking is playing a big part in identifying rioters this time around. I've heard of Jason Li already through the Post-riot clean-up page. People were being reported everywhere. We definitely didn't have that back in 94. Might make people more scared to initiate in riot as such, now that they can be easily identified.

NO SYMPATHY.

I don't care if that guy was walking across an open space looking for a short cut so he could get to the corner store to buy insulin shots for his diabetic, double amputee grandmother. He was an idiot for being anywhere near there at that time. Maybe his balls got the message because there was obviously nothing between the ears. I hope his grandchildren will still feel it (if procreating is still possible for him).

Anyone who didn't leave because they thought they were trapped and got hurt, deserved it. Even if Transit WAS actually closed, there was no reason to congregate around people breaking windows, looting stores, and starting fires. People just standing there and watching were not part of the solution, and were part of the problem.

The people you know could have NOT been total f%#k heads and could have gone to the station themselves to see, or could have made a break for it and walked out of downtown. Were they complete morons or did they just sort of want to see shit go down?

• Video Link

This video is a bit of a demonstration. Nobody here looks "trapped". Everyone is all balls to the walls and taunting police or "spectating" until they throw a few flashbangs, then all the little chicken shits run for their lives. They stood there forever, what did they think was going to happen to them? I only wish everyone there had gotten gassed and had to spend several agonizing hours washing their eyes out as punishment for their idiocy and complete lack of respect for this city.

Again, NO SYMPATHY for anyone participating in the riot. And by participating I include just standing around the riot while it is happening. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem.

The only people I feel bad for are the people who actually had the balls to stand up to the a-holes and try to get them to stop, but these people were well away from the lines of police. And if the police would have moved a bit faster, then those people (the ones I feel bad for) wouldn't have gotten hurt because they would not have needed to take maters into their own hands.

[SpikePhanta]

SpongeG is right, many people came from other parts of BC like the island.
I have one friend who lives in Parksville who used to live here in Burnaby, he posted a status and TONS of photos from Facebook of him and his 25 or so friends.

Anyways hopefully people on Craiglist will be traced and charged some how.



Passed by some volunteers and they deserve some major props, so does the many that tried to stop people (Jlousa!!)

[240glt]

What a bunch of fucking idiots. I feel very bad for my home province and the city I used to live in. I hope they round up every last one of these goons and send'em off to Matsqui for a while.

Another comment I'd like to make about the guy who got flashbanged in the groin..... if the VPD actually threw the flash bang there on purpose, they might be in big trouble because of that

Guess what happens when they read the riot act ? Hint: you'd best be somewhere else.

[SpongeG]

there is one guy who is bragging and posted on youtube that he was in the video and that he stomped some guy and kicked in him the head and now today his foot is sore and wonders how the guys head is

[go_leafs_go02]

Yep, they read the riot act, you practically say "I'm Guilty" for sticking around with that. And I'm fine with that. I have some friends and co-workers who were nearby, completely pissed off and humiliated, but I shook my head and wondered what the heck were you doing staying there?!?! Some friends were there well past 10:30 PM last night.....

However, not knowing what it's like to be in that, I can certainly see some people are there just for curiosity sake. Either way, it's stuff like this that will absolutely make me reconsider going downtown for the fireworks this summer.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

We have nothing to prove on whether he is a rioter or not. We also have little proof on what angle the camera is shooting from. Was he walking to the police or simply walking across an empty space in the crowd?

If you're talking about Jason Li, there's another video of him smashing the BMO windows.

I'd be ok with people showing up at his house (parents' house) with torches and pitchforks.

Parents need to be responsible for their little shits, and furthermore I have no problem about people being made an example of.

FYI: In Canada, the Riot Act has been incorporated in a modified form into ss. 32-33 and 64-69 of the Criminal Code of Canada. The proclamation is worded as follows:
Her Majesty the Queen charges and commands all persons being assembled immediately to disperse and peaceably to depart to their habitations or to their lawful business on the pain of being guilty of an offence for which, on conviction, they may be sentenced to imprisonment for life. God Save the Queen

[xd_1771]

That was a rather blunt statement. I appreciate the use of a video to try and back your statement up, but I just don't see any total proof as to who's participating and who's not. We can assume that the majority of people are standing around and are causing a problem, but we can NOT assume that EVERYONE who just HAPPENED to be in the area, whether they are actually taunting the police, standing around, or just trying to get past the scene to go do a very important errand that perhaps may not be missed, was a rioter, and should receive no sympathy. You provide a very bold but unfair and biased statement on the events and the people who, perhaps some, just happened to be there. The people standing around and watching, I can understand how such people or people participating by causing destructive damage, are most definitely adding to the problem. But really, you're willing to take it so far to blame people in the crowd who may not want to have any involvement whatsoever? That's very bold of you. Definnitely very.

In this crowd there may have been innocent people getting tear gassed, punched, strangled, some even trying to get out but cannot on time because there is simply little to no way to safely get through it in a quick manner. You seem to be basing mostly on assumptions; how bout go talk to some actual people who were in the riot, worried, and actually trying to get out of the situation, and you would perhaps understand. One of my friends took half an hour before reaching a Skytrain station. I was only able to get my warning message to her for an impending riot some minutes before the game was over, and I had been furiously warning about anyone I knew downtown about an impending riot; for the least part, most of the people I knew chose to left early, which is a good thing. However, once she got there, she had been punched 3 times, strangled twice, had some strands of hair ripped out, and would have otherwise been more tattered and there for even longer if a group of 50 policemen had not barged in and pulled her out of the mess. Until we can prove that there was a total lack of those innocent people in the city that were just unable to leave safely and timely (which I know we can't totally), we cannot assume that everyone is the bad guy, and I am going to show my sympathy full-on for those people, people that may additionally not even know what the riot act enforcement does to your rights based on location. We should consider that not everyone may have known about the riots; some people do not even watch hockey. There are also many people that actually LIVE downtown and are regularly out of their homes to take advantages of commercial & other services that happen to be there. You can't expect people who are possibly safely in their homes many levels above the ground action, to simply get up, go back down to the street level where it may be even more dangerous, and attempt to leave downtown as such.

@ Warren: I know who Jason Li is but I was talking about the guy who got the flashbang in the groin.

[240glt]

^ quit being an apologist. That's embarrassing to the entire city. Vancouver is in disgrace right now, trying to justify any of that is sickening.

The city bears some responsibility for this as well. Never should have allowed that kind of congregation to take place in the first place.

I was in Van in '94, left downtown before the shit went down. You had to be stupid to not see it coming. A lot of those people bear the responsibility for what went down... even if they didn't throw a newspaper box through a window or helped flip a car.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

SpongeG is right, many people came from other parts of BC like the island.
I have one friend who lives in Parksville who used to live here in Burnaby, he posted a status and TONS of photos from Facebook of him and his 25 or so friends.

Anyways hopefully people on Craiglist will be traced and charged some how.



Passed by some volunteers and they deserve some major props, so does the many that tried to stop people (Jlousa!!)

I actually lol'd at that picture. They're soooo smart.

[SpongeG]

regardless of it all - what i find most bizarre - is all the people going online and bragging and posting pictures of themselves doing things some bad some not some very stupid

global news read a twitter message about some guy bragging how he set turned over a car, help light a car on fire, threw stuff on the burning car, and multiple things he did and his got all of his information - it can be traced down

i was listening to news 1130 and one of their reporters covering the story had his cell phone robbed and it had a tracking device and they know where and when the phone was and police have been contacted and will probably show up at the persons door

[valleyflyfisher]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

That was a rather blunt statement. I appreciate the use of a video to try and back your statement up, but I just don't see any total proof as to who's participating and who's not. We can assume that the majority of people are standing around and are causing a problem, but we can NOT assume that EVERYONE who just HAPPENED to be in the area, whether they are actually taunting the police, standing around, or just trying to get past the scene to go do a very important errand that perhaps may not be missed, was a rioter, and should receive no sympathy. You provide a very bold but unfair and biased statement on the events and the people who, perhaps some, just happened to be there. The people standing around and watching, I can understand how such people or people participating by causing destructive damage, are most definitely adding to the problem. But really, you're willing to take it so far to blame people in the crowd who may not want to have any involvement whatsoever? That's very bold of you. Definnitely very.

In this crowd there may have been innocent people getting tear gassed, punched, strangled, some even trying to get out but cannot on time because there is simply little to no way to safely get through it in a quick manner. You seem to be basing mostly on assumptions; how bout go talk to some actual people who were in the riot, worried, and actually trying to get out of the situation, and you would perhaps understand. One of my friends took half an hour before reaching a Skytrain station. I was only able to get my warning message to her for an impending riot some minutes before the game was over, and I had been furiously warning about anyone I knew downtown about an impending riot; for the least part, most of the people I knew chose to left early, which is a good thing. However, once she got there, she had been punched 3 times, strangled twice, had some strands of hair ripped out, and would have otherwise been more tattered and there for even longer if a group of 50 policemen had not barged in and pulled her out of the mess. Until we can prove that there was a total lack of those innocent people in the city that were just unable to leave safely and timely (which I know we can't totally), we cannot assume that everyone is the bad guy, and I am going to show my sympathy full-on for those people, people that may additionally not even know what the riot act enforcement does to your rights based on location. We should consider that not everyone may have known about the riots; some people do not even watch hockey. There are also many people that actually LIVE downtown and are regularly out of their homes to take advantages of commercial & other services that happen to be there. You can't expect people who are possibly safely in their homes many levels above the ground action, to simply get up, go back down to the street level where it may be even more dangerous, and attempt to leave downtown as such.

@ Warren: I know who Jason Li is but I was talking about the guy who got the flashbang in the groin.

If you are THERE, you ARE a participant and deserve anything that the Police see fit to get your ass out of there.

[SpongeG]

once they declare it an unlawful gathering and tell you to disperse you do that and you go home

some RT video

• Video Link