DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bulldurhamer]

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[bulldurhamer]

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[bulldurhamer]

https://www.westword.com/news/denver-deadly-streets-update-13164103

Most bike lanes ever, more deaths than ever.

Perhaps denver streets should have been advocating for sidewalks rather than death lanes all this time after all.


Yeah yeah, ive seen the signs in recent years about dead pedestrians. Quickly followed with construction, funding, and celebrating of bike lanes. Get the fuck out of here with the complete lie sidewalks have been on the table for years.

[bulldurhamer]

https://www.9news.com/article/news/polit.../73-e09fcfcf-e603-4bed-8dd7-ffe7b95fb66e



So where is our sidewalk money? Oh i know, bike lanes


Btw this was november 2021. Now we’re supposed to vote to do it again? But this time it will hurt more, especially for those on the corners. But not some people of color but certain not all are exempted either. This is horrible. Stop trying to make the property owners carry all of your water then turn around and shame them for lack of yimbyness.

This sidewalk deal would cost some people a fortune. Absurd. Beyond absurd. Especially since we just passed millions for sidewalks that never reached a sidewalk.

[Sam Hill]

Take it easy.

[TakeFive]

Just walk around any sidewalk hazards

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

https://www.9news.com/article/news/polit.../73-e09fcfcf-e603-4bed-8dd7-ffe7b95fb66e
Btw this was november 2021.

And if you add $259 million to the previously passed Elevate Denver Bonds it totals $1.2 billion. That's a lot of money for such a small town.

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

https://www.westword.com/news/denver-deadly-streets-update-13164103

Most bike lanes ever, more deaths than ever.

Perhaps denver streets should have been advocating for sidewalks rather than death lanes all this time after all.

None of this money addresses any of the Top Ten Reasons for Traffic Crashes so you're only working at the margin. The results show how effective that has been.

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Take it easy.

One of my favorites

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

https://www.westword.com/news/denver-deadly-streets-update-13164103

Most bike lanes ever, more deaths than ever.

Perhaps denver streets should have been advocating for sidewalks rather than death lanes all this time after all.


Yeah yeah, ive seen the signs in recent years about dead pedestrians. Quickly followed with construction, funding, and celebrating of bike lanes. Get the fuck out of here with the complete lie sidewalks have been on the table for years.

Out of the 80ish they listed one was bike/auto, one was bike/train, one was bike/fixed object... doesn't sound like "death lanes" to me. Seems like a good argument for staying the course on bike lanes and adding sidewalk maintenance?

I'm sorry if what I just said hates on Mexicans somehow btw.

[coolmandan03]

Nobody is addressing the actual cause for the additional bike/pedestrian deaths. GHSA has shown that 1) increase in cell phone use for drivers 2) 69% of the vehicle market share is trucks and SUVs. Deaths are twice as likely for bicyclist and pedestrians struck by an SUV than they are by a passenger car.

Of course, those features that make SUVs more deadly to pedestrians are what make them more safe for the occupants - which is why there has been a 6% decrease in traffic accident fatalities.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

Nobody is addressing the actual cause for the additional bike/pedestrian deaths. GHSA has shown that 1) increase in cell phone use for drivers 2) 69% of the vehicle market share is trucks and SUVs. Deaths are twice as likely for bicyclist and pedestrians struck by an SUV than they are by a passenger car.

Of course, those features that make SUVs more deadly to pedestrians are what make them more safe for the occupants - which is why there has been a 6% decrease in traffic accident fatalities.

And FMVSS standards only addresses occupant safety, not pedestrian.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

https://www.westword.com/news/denver-deadly-streets-update-13164103

Most bike lanes ever, more deaths than ever.

Perhaps denver streets should have been advocating for sidewalks rather than death lanes all this time after all.


Yeah yeah, ive seen the signs in recent years about dead pedestrians. Quickly followed with construction, funding, and celebrating of bike lanes. Get the fuck out of here with the complete lie sidewalks have been on the table for years.

First - don't speak for "poor Mexicans" dude. Just don't. We know you're not black or brown or poor or even originally from Denver. You're just another cranky NIMBY/troll who came on here to complain about high rises in RINO and how the City Park irrigation project was endangering the property values of a neighborhood you moved into within the last decade and whose real character you never knew. I've been half-convinced for a while that you started as a Zeppelin troll and may well be more than one person. Maybe you're even a troll alt for someone else. It doesn't really matter, but it is an indication of the sad state of moderation on this board that you weren't banned immediately years ago and that you continue to be able to log in and post publically.

But more importantly, you are, as always, egregiously wrong about everything. At least this time you are so wrong you have looped back around and are almost right. The way sidewalks are funded in Denver is dumb. The requirement to make homeowners pay for them is dumb. The inability of the city administration to change that is dumb. But bike lanes have nothing to do with any of that and bike lanes and sidewalks are not mutually exclusive - the budget for bike lanes does not have to take away from the sidewalk budget and we don't have to choose one or the other. The city is not choosing bike lanes on streets instead of sidewalks. And we all know you know that, you just want to fill your tiny diaper with anger and make the rest of us smell it.

And road deaths have increased, but not because of bike lanes and (once again) not just in Denver. It is a nation-wide phenomena that bucks trends in almost every other country in the world. Oddly enough, people have studied it and talked about it and if you wanted to you could read more about it (but we know you won't) It has a lot more to do with this country's preference for enormous diesel-powered death machines and the general lack of will to enforce or change regulation. Once upon a time automakers were concerned about pedestrian crashes and had to perform crash tests, and now they make trucks with hoods taller than many adults and with enormous blind spots. Add into that the insistence by all motorists that they get everywhere as quickly as possible, damn the consequences, and our streets are now fast-moving death traps for anyone NOT in an enormous truck.

So.. you could read up on all this and realize that these two things aren't related, but that you have two good points - that the way Denver pays for sidewalks is unequal and that road deaths have increased. You could use this knowledge to advocate for changes to both.

OR you could continue to post trollish ill-informed garbage that clogs this once-informative board and contributes to it's continued irrelevance. Whichever.

[TakeFive]

The Powers of Observation and Common Sense

It's not that Streetsblog propaganda is necessarily wrong but it 'conveniently' ignores real world observation and common sense.

With respect to Pedestrian - Vehicle conflicts' To wit:

Nearly seventy-five percent of all pedestrian accidents occur at night, primarily between 6 pm and midnight.

The reasons are clear and obvious:

• Wearing dark clothing - based on personal experience, this is huge. No I haven't experienced an accident but I am well aware of the risk.
• Impairment and/or distraction of either party but especially the pedestrian
• Walking into the vehicle right-of-way and not in a crosswalk

BTW, I finished my morning walk earlier and even in daylight I intentionally wear light, bright clothing as I assume 'some' responsibility for my own welfare. This also means I make myself aware of any vehicle traffic.

With respect to vehicle - bike conflicts

This is usually the fault of the drivers. It's also worth noting that 'we' drivers, even those of us who drive defensively, instinctively train our eyes to look out for larger objects and are more likely to not see motorcycles, bikes or pedestrians in the roadway. Those who ride may contribute to their own risk by naively assuming others will automatically see them and yield.

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

Nobody is addressing the actual cause for the additional bike/pedestrian deaths. GHSA has shown that 1) increase in cell phone use for drivers 2) 69% of the vehicle market share is trucks and SUVs. Deaths are twice as likely for bicyclist and pedestrians struck by an SUV than they are by a passenger car.

Of course, those features that make SUVs more deadly to pedestrians are what make them more safe for the occupants - which is why there has been a 6% decrease in traffic accident fatalities.

Speaking of Mexican's et al they love their trucks and with all the new construction or (apartment) renovation their are lots of trucks on the road.

While I can appreciate the physics of size the bottom line is it's never a good idea to walk in front of a moving vehicle of ANY size.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

https://www.9news.com/article/news/polit.../73-e09fcfcf-e603-4bed-8dd7-ffe7b95fb66e



So where is our sidewalk money? Oh i know, bike lanes


Btw this was november 2021. Now we’re supposed to vote to do it again? But this time it will hurt more, especially for those on the corners. But not some people of color but certain not all are exempted either. This is horrible. Stop trying to make the property owners carry all of your water then turn around and shame them for lack of yimbyness.

This sidewalk deal would cost some people a fortune. Absurd. Beyond absurd. Especially since we just passed millions for sidewalks that never reached a sidewalk.

If I were Mayor, which there's no chance of it ever happening, but for shits and giggles if I were, I would absolutely appoint you to head up DOTI. This kind of no-nonsense talk, while tough for many to hear, is exactly what that agency needs. If nothing else, you'd have the effect of substantially all of the agency quitting or being fired (by you) which, IMO, is still an improvement over this agency's doings.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

...It has a lot more to do with this country's preference for enormous diesel-powered death machines and the general lack of will to enforce or change regulation...

Nope - it has to do with our planning practices. Designing collector roads with 11-12' lane widths and a shoulder where parking is disallowed is contributing to increased vehicle-pedestrian deaths. We need 8' single lanes on two way streets flanked by parking for all but the busiest commercial roads and transit corridors. We need to stop designing our cities for vehicles to go any speed they want and we need to stop designing them for hook and ladder fire trucks which will ever EVER respond to a single story post war neighborhood. We also need to publicly shame utility companies who require minimum 30' road widths (without parking) for private roads and legally strip them of their power to do this.

The long failed experiment of "bigger is better" is over and it's time to fire transportation engineers far and wide in order to rid our cities of excessively accommodating road infrastructure so that we can stop spending ungodly sums of money on that stuff and instead focus on: 1) cities paying for more/better sidewalks, 2) cities paying for protected bike lanes, 3) cities expanding urban trail systems, 4) cities paying for tree lawns to protect pedestrians on sidewalks (and battle heat islands/air quality), and 5) allow for better cities to develop which aren't completely planned around vehicle movements. If you think anything of what we are developing today is anything but completely centered around vehicle movements, you must live a blissfully ignorant life (and I am jealous).

Did y

[wong21fr]

https://businessden.com/2022/06/14/ex-world-trade-center-project-in-rino-drops-planned-hotel/

Formativ is reprogramming the hotel portion of the WTC project as a 17-story, 310 unit residential tower. The office tower and parking garage continue to move forward as originally planned.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Is there any discussion over a potential groundbreaking date? I don't have a subscription so I am not able to read the article.

[Curtis Park]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Is there any discussion over a potential groundbreaking date? I don't have a subscription so I am not able to read the article.

Inoreader provides an RSS feed with no paywall.
https://www.inoreader.com/feed/https%3A%2F%2Fbusinessden.com%2Ffeed%2F

[TakeFive]

Not a surprise

Originally Posted by wong21fr

https://businessden.com/2022/06/14/ex-world-trade-center-project-in-rino-drops-planned-hotel/

Formativ is reprogramming the hotel portion of the WTC project as a 17-story, 310 unit residential tower. The office tower and parking garage continue to move forward as originally planned.

I thought the Tennessee company had bought that parcel but maybe they just had it under contract and never closed the deal.
-----------------------



Down here in the desert wider roads have a lot of advantages

Originally Posted by laniroj

The long failed experiment of "bigger is better" is over and it's time to fire transportation engineers far and wide in order to rid our cities of excessively accommodating road infrastructure so that we can stop spending ungodly sums of money on that stuff and instead focus on: 1) cities paying for more/better sidewalks, 2) cities paying for protected bike lanes, 3) cities expanding urban trail systems, 4) cities paying for tree lawns to protect pedestrians on sidewalks (and battle heat islands/air quality), and 5) allow for better cities to develop which aren't completely planned around vehicle movements. If you think anything of what we are developing today is anything but completely centered around vehicle movements, you must live a blissfully ignorant life (and I am jealous).

Perhaps it's a matter of being capable of being creative

Especially in the suburbs, most of our collector streets have been retrofitted with nice-sized bike lanes and with "extra' space you can create all manner of traffic calming devices from roundabouts for busier intersections to chicanes, bulbs, chokers many of which are landscaped. For arterial roads there's these fancy things called stoplights but stop signs still work as well.

Note: I do assume that a significant majority of taxpayers will want personal vehicles well into the future. That's not to say specific areas couldn't be car-free zones but I suspect this would be more the exception.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

...Perhaps it's a matter of being capable of being creative

Especially in the suburbs, most of our collector streets have been retrofitted with nice-sized bike lanes and with "extra' space you can create all manner of traffic calming devices from roundabouts for busier intersections to chicanes, bulbs, chokers many of which are landscaped. For arterial roads there's these fancy things called stoplights but stop signs still work as well...

My comment moreso speaks to the direct link between lane widths and speeds and how those two factors contribute to pedestrian/cyclist safety. Larger lane widths which, like electrical and fire equipment, are always growing in size and are directly contributing to unsafe pedestrian/cyclist conditions. Larger lane widths directly correlate to higher vehicle speeds and pedestrian/cyclist deaths. It's funny because a partial driver of road widths is the fire department and we probably induce more deaths via road widths than we would otherwise suffer from structure fires supposing we had "inadequate" lane widths (if you asked the fire department).

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by laniroj

My comment moreso speaks to the direct link between lane widths and speeds and how those two factors contribute to pedestrian/cyclist safety. Larger lane widths which, like electrical and fire equipment, are always growing in size and are directly contributing to unsafe pedestrian/cyclist conditions. Larger lane widths directly correlate to higher vehicle speeds and pedestrian/cyclist deaths. It's funny because a partial driver of road widths is the fire department and we probably induce more deaths via road widths than we would otherwise suffer from structure fires supposing we had "inadequate" lane widths (if you asked the fire department).

You are absolutely correct. The relationship between road width, lane width, vehicle speed, and pedestrian safety is very well established.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Looks like demo is complete for 1158 Delaware St