Winnipeg Construction X

[eman]

Re: Development at The Forks will express joy and spirit of city jewel
Winnipeg Free Press By: Brent Bellamy
December 30, 2024


I've got a view from my window that's like a bad dream on repeat. Homeless encampments dot the landscape, and in just the last few days, we've had two fires—real, dangerous fires, with flames within 25 feet of apartment buildings. Fire trucks have become the new soundtrack of our nights.

And here you come, with your love letter to Jane Jacobs, trying to turn The Forks into some kind of urban utopia from her playbook. Jacobs was brilliant, no doubt, but your infatuation with her vision ignores her tragic flaw. It's like you're so enamored with the idea of quaint, low-rise neighborhoods that you've forgotten we're in the middle of a damn housing crisis.

This isn't about creating a picturesque European postcard on the prairies; it's about shelter, about giving people a place to lay their heads where they won't wake up to the smell of smoke.. We need Density Done Well, and that means going vertical, not just horizontal. Capping a DOWNTOWN project to 6 floors? WFT. We could be doubling, tripling the number of homes, making a real dent in this crisis.

Brent Toderian, now there's a guy who understands that density can have soul, can be part of the city's heartbeat. But you, Bellamy, you're stuck in this time warp, this romanticized vision of urban life that doesn't fit with the reality outside my window or meet the demand.

The truth is, your plan is a nice thought, but it's not going to put out the fires, literal and metaphorical, that are burning in our city. We need buildings that rise with the same urgency as the flames we've been seeing.

So, let's get real. Let's stop idolizing Jacobs like she's the only saint in the architecture hall of fame. Let's build for now, for the people shivering in tents, for the ones who can't afford to wait for nostalgia. And why is taking 25 years?

The Forks could be so much more than a jewel; it could be a lifeline. Don't just celebrate the spirit of the place; give it the body it needs to house every single soul that calls Winnipeg home.

[bomberjet]

I thought I was in for a free paywalled article. But instead it was just another chapter in the eman/TrueViking saga. How dissapointing.

[WinCitySparky]

lol what a weirdo

[Mr Tall Forehead]

That’s quite the essay.

[eman]

x

[eman]

x

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by eman

Re: Development at The Forks will express joy and spirit of city jewel
Winnipeg Free Press By: Brent Bellamy
December 30, 2024


I've got a view from my window that's like a bad dream on repeat. Homeless encampments dot the landscape, and in just the last few days, we've had two fires—real, dangerous fires, with flames within 25 feet of apartment buildings. Fire trucks have become the new soundtrack of our nights.

And here you come, with your love letter to Jane Jacobs, trying to turn The Forks into some kind of urban utopia from her playbook. Jacobs was brilliant, no doubt, but your infatuation with her vision ignores her tragic flaw. It's like you're so enamored with the idea of quaint, low-rise neighborhoods that you've forgotten we're in the middle of a damn housing crisis.

This isn't about creating a picturesque European postcard on the prairies; it's about shelter, about giving people a place to lay their heads where they won't wake up to the smell of smoke.. We need Density Done Well, and that means going vertical, not just horizontal. Capping a DOWNTOWN project to 6 floors? WFT. We could be doubling, tripling the number of homes, making a real dent in this crisis.

Brent Toderian, now there's a guy who understands that density can have soul, can be part of the city's heartbeat. But you, Bellamy, you're stuck in this time warp, this romanticized vision of urban life that doesn't fit with the reality outside my window or meet the demand.

The truth is, your plan is a nice thought, but it's not going to put out the fires, literal and metaphorical, that are burning in our city. We need buildings that rise with the same urgency as the flames we've been seeing.

So, let's get real. Let's stop idolizing Jacobs like she's the only saint in the architecture hall of fame. Let's build for now, for the people shivering in tents, for the ones who can't afford to wait for nostalgia. And why is taking 25 years?

The Forks could be so much more than a jewel; it could be a lifeline. Don't just celebrate the spirit of the place; give it the body it needs to house every single soul that calls Winnipeg home.

Lmao, you're nuts. There are dozens of lots downtown available for highrise developments, some of them in large packets like the parking lots on Graham, yet no one is rushing to build highrises on them. Why do you think it'll be any different at the Forks? Nevermind the fact that due to footprint and lack of human scale, they'll miss out on the whole vibe they want to achieve, which is as you pointed out, akin to a bustling European urban centre. Mind you, I do somewhat agree with your point that 6 stories is too low, I think 8-10 would be better personally, but missing middle will be perfectly acceptable as well. I'm also unsure why you have such a hate-on for Brent Bellamy, considering he's just an entrant into this bid and a fan, he didn't plan it, that's on the Forks Centre Venture team.

[eman]

"I think 8-10 would be better personally, but missing middle will be perfectly acceptable as well. I'm also unsure why you have such a hate-on for Brent Bellamy, considering he's just an entrant into this bid and a fan, he didn't plan it, that's on the Forks Centre Venture team.[/QUOTE]

Six floors is the MAX. Some buildings will be shorter. Its downtown land, in a desirable part of downtown, of course they should have maximized the number of units for a long list of good reasons. I am in target market that appreciates walkable urbanism, but have no interest in being below the 10th floor of a downtown building. They will fall short of the European feel simply because the number of units is so small and not achieving reasonable density. Density Done Well. Does Waterfront Drive have that Euro feel with short low density buildings? NO. It feels deserted and unsafe. There isn't even a place to buy milk at a Korean family bodega.

If Waterfront Drive was a raging success I might believe you and Bellamy. The Waterfront Drive building closest to Portage and Main is 3 floors minimal density.

If you had a friend moving to Winnipeg, would you tell them to find a place on Waterfront Drive,, Winnipeg's urban walkable European style neighbourhood?

10 Years from now I will bet Rail Side will be the same. Interesting, but not very desirable. Simply because if fell short on density, not enough people walking around or ground floor businesses to visit. Density Done Well.

[Malcsta]

Originally Posted by eman

Re: Development at The Forks will express joy and spirit of city jewel
Winnipeg Free Press By: Brent Bellamy
December 30, 2024


I've got a view from my window that's like a bad dream on repeat. Homeless encampments dot the landscape, and in just the last few days, we've had two fires—real, dangerous fires, with flames within 25 feet of apartment buildings. Fire trucks have become the new soundtrack of our nights.

And here you come, with your love letter to Jane Jacobs, trying to turn The Forks into some kind of urban utopia from her playbook. Jacobs was brilliant, no doubt, but your infatuation with her vision ignores her tragic flaw. It's like you're so enamored with the idea of quaint, low-rise neighborhoods that you've forgotten we're in the middle of a damn housing crisis.

This isn't about creating a picturesque European postcard on the prairies; it's about shelter, about giving people a place to lay their heads where they won't wake up to the smell of smoke.. We need Density Done Well, and that means going vertical, not just horizontal. Capping a DOWNTOWN project to 6 floors? WFT. We could be doubling, tripling the number of homes, making a real dent in this crisis.

Brent Toderian, now there's a guy who understands that density can have soul, can be part of the city's heartbeat. But you, Bellamy, you're stuck in this time warp, this romanticized vision of urban life that doesn't fit with the reality outside my window or meet the demand.

The truth is, your plan is a nice thought, but it's not going to put out the fires, literal and metaphorical, that are burning in our city. We need buildings that rise with the same urgency as the flames we've been seeing.

So, let's get real. Let's stop idolizing Jacobs like she's the only saint in the architecture hall of fame. Let's build for now, for the people shivering in tents, for the ones who can't afford to wait for nostalgia. And why is taking 25 years?

The Forks could be so much more than a jewel; it could be a lifeline. Don't just celebrate the spirit of the place; give it the body it needs to house every single soul that calls Winnipeg home.

Reading this gives me the same feeling I get when I open twitter these days. People inventing reasons to get upset so they have an excuse to type up an essay, screaming into the void, playing the provocateur. There is so much antagonizing behavior that comes from people like you and it is all for nothing, you and your post aren't galvanizing anyone on this website. Everyone I've spoken to is smart enough to understand why this project is a great thing. Then there's you in your little corner, screaming into the abyss.
We have reached the point where we are complaining about replacing huge parking lots with unique housing developments.
Sure this city has issues but why on earth are you taking it out on Brent of all people.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by eman

Six floors is the MAX. Some buildings will be shorter. Its downtown land, in a desirable part of downtown, of course they should have maximized the number of units for a long list of good reasons. I am in target market that appreciates walkable urbanism, but have no interest in being below the 10th floor of a downtown building. They will fall short of the European feel simply because the number of units is so small and not achieving reasonable density. Density Done Well. Does Waterfront Drive have that Euro feel with short low density buildings? NO. It feels deserted and unsafe. There isn't even a place to buy milk at a Korean family bodega.

If Waterfront Drive was a raging success I might believe you and Bellamy. The Waterfront Drive building closest to Portage and Main is 3 floors minimal density.

If you had a friend moving to Winnipeg, would you tell them to find a place on Waterfront Drive,, Winnipeg's urban walkable European style neighbourhood?

10 Years from now I will bet Rail Side will be the same. Interesting, but not very desirable. Simply because if fell short on density, not enough people walking around or ground floor businesses to visit. Density Done Well.

Plenty of milk for you at Ashdown Market or Sky Convenience, bud. Or does it have to come from a Korean family owned establishment?

[WinCitySparky]

Truly annoying stuff eman

[eman]

Originally Posted by Malcsta

Reading this gives me the same feeling I get when I open twitter these days. People inventing reasons to get upset so they have an excuse to type up an essay, screaming into the void, playing the provocateur. There is so much antagonizing behavior that comes from people like you and it is all for nothing, you and your post aren't galvanizing anyone on this website. Everyone I've spoken to is smart enough to understand why this project is a great thing. Then there's you in your little corner, screaming into the abyss.
We have reached the point where we are complaining about replacing huge parking lots with unique housing developments.
Sure this city has issues but why on earth are you taking it out on Brent of all people.

I sincerely want to live in a better city and I find it frustrating to watch the decades go by we and continue to make the same mistakes. There is a lot of common ground, walkable urbanism. By not working on Density Done Well especially downtown, Osborne Village, the West End or ST. B we will continue to encourage construction outward in Sage Creek, Bridgwater and beyond. We could afford to build high density in the 80s, but somehow we can't afford it now right DOWNTOWN? We can't afford the current city services because of building outwards. Rail Side is better than a parking lot, but it falls short in the housing crisis and won't meet its urbanism goals as the density is too low.

I travel enough to see Density Done Well in cities in Canada, USA and Asia. Then I come home and wonder why high density is not a top priority in downtown Winnipeg.

[Kinguni]

If we could fill half the downtown surface lots with 6 floor apartment buildings there would be space for everyone here to live. Going vertical does not make for a liveable downtown.

[FactaNV]

Can someone speak to the cost per sq ft of a highrise vs midrise? Are they similar?

Eman, I get you're passionate but pretending Winnipeg's housing market can support the cost of building highrises on every patch of land in the inner city is silly at best. There is no need for highrises everywhere, midrise has been shown to be just as pretty well just dense as highrise construction due to massing and footprints and creates a much more friendly and human scale city. You say you travel, have you ever been to Paris? I was just there and I can tell you there ain't many 8+ story buildings in the old city, nevermind 10+ and Paris is one of the most vibrant, walkable cities on Earth. What's wrong with that approach? Certainly is a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the Vancouver glasstower approach.

[1ajs]

Water front cru',s sit empty because the rents are so high

[eman]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Can someone speak to the cost per sq ft of a highrise vs midrise? Are they similar?

Eman, I get you're passionate but pretending Winnipeg's housing market can support the cost of building highrises on every patch of land in the inner city is silly at best. There is no need for highrises everywhere, midrise has been shown to be just as pretty well just dense as highrise construction due to massing and footprints and creates a much more friendly and human scale city. You say you travel, have you ever been to Paris? I was just there and I can tell you there ain't many 8+ story buildings in the old city, nevermind 10+ and Paris is one of the most vibrant, walkable cities on Earth. What's wrong with that approach? Certainly is a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the Vancouver glasstower approach.

The Paris model didn't work on Waterfront Drive. Fail once,, learn from the mistakes and do better. Keep doing the same things failing over and over again is stupid. The only thing Winnipeg hasn't tried lately is Density Done Well. The friendly and human scale building is the podium part(common ground) for the slender tower that can be as tall as needed to make the project financially viable. Much of Winnipeg has zoning that bans tall even if it has awesome human scale street sides.

Portage Place may have failed as a mall, but it's still home to thousands of people on a similar lot size far out sizing Rail Side. That said, the design could be have been better street side instead of a closed building. Those 3 building on Colony is probably a better example of something recent. I would prefer slender and spaced apart like Vancouver, density done well.

[pspeid]

The questions of "urban density" and "urban livability" on the surface seem to be overlapping issues, focussing on what form(s) of housing is/are best to promote both. My question is "what level of urban density is the goal for the downtown area"? Is simply having as many people in as small an area as possible what we're aiming for, or are we looking to build the downtown neighbourhood? I would think the "livability" of a neighbourhood is based on more than just numbers of bodies that can be put into the area. Amenities, aesthetics and a sense of identity all seem to be essential elements to incorporate into a resurgent downtown. I think for people wanting to live in an area with a downtown "vibe", some high-rises are probably essential, but probably not the only housing options.

[trueviking]

Earl is such a f”cking pigeon. He wrote this long diatribe and copied it to every single person who works at the free press. By 8am. Then came back two hours later and sent a reply all to the 20 people with a second rant. They each send me replies asking who this pigeon is. Nobody will engage with his ramblings so he comes here to troll about his skyscraper fetish.

Railside has as many floors as three twenty storey towers on a piece of land that’s the size of a soccer pitch. He will ignore that and continue to rant about skyscrapers being the only way to achieve density. It will bounce off him like the intellectual brick wall that he is and he will reply. Well, They should be three seventy storey buildings! Intentionally ignoring reality.

We get it Earl. You made a bad decision and bought an overpriced condo built with white glue and cardboard and you want to move, but nobody is going to build another condo tower in Winnipeg. Nobody. It will never happen. Streetside is building a condo at Railside. You’d better jump on it.

[Gravity Wins]

Plateau-Mont-Royal, one of the densest neighbourhoods in Canada. Average building height: 3 stories.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Earl is such a f”cking pigeon. He wrote this long diatribe and copied it to every single person who works at the free press. By 8am. Then came back two hours later and sent a reply all to the 20 people with a second rant. They each send me replies asking who this pigeon is. Nobody will engage with his ramblings so he comes here to troll about his skyscraper fetish.

Railside has as many floors as three twenty storey towers on a piece of land that’s the size of a soccer pitch. He will ignore that and continue to rant about skyscrapers being the only way to achieve density. It will bounce off him like the intellectual brick wall that he is and he will reply. Well, They should be three seventy storey buildings! Intentionally ignoring reality.

We get it Earl. You made a bad decision and bought an overpriced condo built with white glue and cardboard and you want to move, but nobody is going to build another condo tower in Winnipeg. Nobody. It will never happen. Streetside is building a condo at Railside. You’d better jump on it.

As an aside, why don't condos sell here? Why won't there be another condo tower?