Statistics Canada Reports II

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Should they be counted as new blood, though?

A lot of Aussie citizens have never actually lived in Australia. As for NZ, last I checked it is a different country. Does Canada count USA as foreigners?

[savevp]

Australia and New Zealand have freedom of movement between them, somewhat like the EU.

[Dalreg]

Not quite as free as people think. no visa needed, but still need a valid passport and any sort of criminal background will get you stopped at the border.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sure, but the level of deviation from the continental standard can vary. A predominantly anglo Montreal would make the people growing up there a lot more similar to other English-speaking North Americans. Not necessarily a bad thing, though they would be more indistinguishable from Ottawans, Torontonians or even Calgarians.

Note that the most fertile era culturally for Anglo-Montreal (the 60s and 70s) coincided with the rise of Québécois nationalism and separatism, and one can assume the resulting anxiety in the anglo community led to a sense of living on the edge that was a net positive for creativity.

Here's an easy question, show me a Quebecer who is more internationally famous than Leonard Cohen, or a Quebec born actor better known than William Shatner, or a Canadian politician who was better known internationally than Pierre Trudeau. They came from that culture. IMO, that's all gone now. Is there any chance of that happening again?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

Here's an easy question, show me a Quebecer who is more internationally famous than Leonard Cohen, or a Quebec born actor better known than William Shatner, or a Canadian politician who was better known internationally than Pierre Trudeau. They came from that culture. IMO, that's all gone now. Is there any chance of that happening again?

Uhhh .. Céline Dion?

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Uhhh .. Céline Dion?

Oui, I already knew you would say that. I could go on to say that Cohen was famous much longer and that perhaps his legacy has more depth and will endure more. But my point was that the Anglo Quebec culture which produced some very special people will not survive and will not do so anymore.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by Architype

Here's an easy question, show me a Quebecer who is more internationally famous than Leonard Cohen, or a Quebec born actor better known than William Shatner, or a Canadian politician who was better known internationally than Pierre Trudeau. They came from that culture. IMO, that's all gone now. Is there any chance of that happening again?

Pierre Trudeau, while bilingual at an early age, was not an anglo-Quebebecer. Neither is his son Justin, who while probably more comfortable speaking English, is technically a francophone.

Cohen and Shatner and Christopher Plummer (the best!) are definitely from anglo-Montreal stock, but would anybody outside of Canada really know this? Do most Canadians even know this?? Somebody told me that Shatner was from Victoria. I'm betting that most don't even associate these people with Canada at all. There are very few internationally known people from Canada to begin with and even fewer that actively promote the country - Reynolds, Drake? There's probably a handful of others, then it drops off pretty quickly to the likes of Will Arnett.

I think it's cyclical - we've put out some lesser known celebrities in the recent past, some of whom are transplants to the anglo Montreal community - Jay Baruchel, Patrick Watson etc. I'm not sure where Arcade Fire exist on the linguistic spectrum here, but they are originally American. Nothing is really stopping someone from Westmount from reaching international fame - like Eugenie Bouchard (an anglo, despite her name) or Lance Stroll, same as nothing is preventing someone from Stratford ON from having their own line of disgusting Timbits.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Pierre Trudeau, while bilingual at an early age, was not an anglo-Quebebecer. Neither is his son Justin, who while probably more comfortable speaking English, is technically a francophone.

His mother tongue is English. His elementary school was in English, 3 of his four grandparents were English. How is he technically a francophone?

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Pierre Trudeau, while bilingual at an early age, was not an anglo-Quebebecer. Neither is his son Justin, who while probably more comfortable speaking English, is technically a francophone.

Cohen and Shatner and Christopher Plummer (the best!) are definitely from anglo-Montreal stock, but would anybody outside of Canada really know this? Do most Canadians even know this?? Somebody told me that Shatner was from Victoria. I'm betting that most don't even associate these people with Canada at all. There are very few internationally known people from Canada to begin with and even fewer that actively promote the country - Reynolds, Drake? There's probably a handful of others, then it drops off pretty quickly to the likes of Will Arnett.

I think it's cyclical - we've put out some lesser known celebrities in the recent past, some of whom are transplants to the anglo Montreal community - Jay Baruchel, Patrick Watson etc. I'm not sure where Arcade Fire exist on the linguistic spectrum here, but they are originally American. Nothing is really stopping someone from Westmount from reaching international fame - like Eugenie Bouchard (an anglo, despite her name) or Lance Stroll, same as nothing is preventing someone from Stratford ON from having their own line of disgusting Timbits.

Régine Chassagne from Arcade Fire is a francophone born in Montreal.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by acottawa

His mother tongue is English. His elementary school was in English, 3 of his four grandparents were English. How is he technically a francophone?

My understanding is that his mother tongue is French, making him a francophone.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Pierre Trudeau, while bilingual at an early age, was not an anglo-Quebebecer. Neither is his son Justin, who while probably more comfortable speaking English, is technically a francophone.

Cohen and Shatner and Christopher Plummer (the best!) are definitely from anglo-Montreal stock, but would anybody outside of Canada really know this? Do most Canadians even know this?? Somebody told me that Shatner was from Victoria. I'm betting that most don't even associate these people with Canada at all. There are very few internationally known people from Canada to begin with and even fewer that actively promote the country - Reynolds, Drake? There's probably a handful of others, then it drops off pretty quickly to the likes of Will Arnett.

I think it's cyclical - we've put out some lesser known celebrities in the recent past, some of whom are transplants to the anglo Montreal community - Jay Baruchel, Patrick Watson etc. I'm not sure where Arcade Fire exist on the linguistic spectrum here, but they are originally American. Nothing is really stopping someone from Westmount from reaching international fame - like Eugenie Bouchard (an anglo, despite her name) or Lance Stroll, same as nothing is preventing someone from Stratford ON from having their own line of disgusting Timbits.

"Technically francophone"? How does that work?

[thewave46]

In any significantly large population, a number of people will rise to international fame. Especially when the world's largest media market is next door.

It's not as if Quebec's going to be completely culturally isolated given the location it occupies in the world, even if it pursues a slightly more francophone-favouring culture at an official level.

The biggest obstacle to wide-scale celebrity today might be the fragmentation of big media.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Régine Chassagne from Arcade Fire is a francophone born in Montreal.

Indeed, though Arcade Fire is basically an American band that happens to have been based in Montreal due to rents being cheap there when they were starting out.

[Acajack]

While I disagree that Montreal's anglo culture is being destroyed and as a result won't be able to produce anything worthy of note in the future, even if that were the case... how important is it as a societal goal to produce entertainment celebrities of international renown?

How many Norwegian celebrities do you know, and what impact does that have on the quality of life of Norwegians?

[Acajack]

........

[Architype]

Originally Posted by acottawa

His mother tongue is English. His elementary school was in English, 3 of his four grandparents were English. How is he technically a francophone?

They became famous or successful by speaking English, more so than French. PET's mother had an Anglo name, and of course, so does Margaret Sinclair.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

"Technically francophone"? How does that work?

Pierre Elliot Trudeau is probably best described as a textbook example of someone who could be said to be both francophone and anglophone. It might arguably be the case for Justin Trudeau as well, though some might disagree.

In any event, they have a foot in both realities, even if the relative percentages don't line up perfectly as 50-50.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

They became famous or successful by speaking English, more so than French. PET's mother had an Anglo name, and of course, so does Margaret Sinclair.

I see what you're getting at, but not sure how being Prime Minister of Canada fully qualifies as "being famous or successful for speaking English". It's a job for which there is a bilingualism requirement.

If being PM means being an anglophone, does that mean that Jean Chrétien is an anglo now?

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by Acajack

While I disagree that Montreal's anglo culture is being destroyed and as a result won't be able to produce anything worthy of note in the future, even if that were the case... how important is it as a societal goal to produce entertainment celebrities of international renown?

How many Norwegian celebrities do you know, and what impact does that have on the quality of life of Norwegians?

It appears to be an important barometer of a locale's success in North American society.

Many a highway sign will proudly proclaim 'X town, home of X celebrity!'

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

While I disagree that Montreal's anglo culture is being destroyed and as a result won't be able to produce anything worthy of note in the future, even if that were the case... how important is it as a societal goal to produce entertainment celebrities of international renown?

How many Norwegian celebrities do you know, and what impact does that have on the quality of life of Norwegians?

Ullman, Henie, Grieg, Munch, Ibsen, Amundsen? Pop stars, not so much.