CHICAGO | Lincoln Yards

[lakeshoredrive]

https://chicago.urbanize.city/post/n...ak-ground-year

Looks like the next phase is about to start. Exciting news to see some things happening.

[dewbs]

I didn't know about this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ds-after-delay

The third-biggest US city has been slow to issue permits ...

Mayor Lori Lightfoot “put a brake on our entire project,” he said in an interview Monday, adding that that the delays set the project back by three years. “She fought the development...

Gloor said he already has refinancing interest from private individuals, with which the company wants to move forward.

He also added that Chicago had some 60 cranes in the air in 2017 and 2018 when Rahm Emanuel was mayor. That dropped to an average 11 or 12 during the Lightfoot administration.

“It’s absolutely fair to say that if Rahm Emanuel was still mayor, we might have eight cranes up in the air in Lincoln Yards right now,” he said.

...

Gloor is optimistic that the project will take off when Mayor-elect Brandon Johnson takes over next week. Sterling Bay still needs to receive more permits, including those for infrastructure.

“I can’t say enough just of my initial meetings with Brandon and his team,” he said. “I’m super encouraged that he understands the importance of these large developments for Chicago.”

[Via Chicago]

Gloor is optimistic that the project will take off when Mayor-elect Brandon Johnson takes over next week.

lol

“I can’t say enough just of my initial meetings with Brandon and his team,” he said. “I’m super encouraged that he understands the importance of these large developments for Chicago.”

which is why he actively campaigned against them?

but yeah the administration that just appointed carlos rosa to zoning head is going to lead the way. ok.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by dewbs

I didn't know about this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ds-after-delay

Well damn, I wonder what Lori had to deal with that Rahm didn't. Cough, cough, cough.

This honestly sounds like an extreme load of bullshit.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by dewbs

I didn't know about this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ds-after-delay

Theres's a very good reason you didn't know about this.


Because it's all very transparently nonsense.

All of it.


I'd say Sterling Bay's primary problem here - among other not insignifcant ones, to be sure - is that this is all way, way, way too office-focused. Goofy location for office to begin with. And now it's (office), if not a non-starter, something much nearer to that than simply being goofy.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Theres's a very good reason you didn't know about this.


Because it's all very transparently nonsense.

All of it.


I'd say Sterling Bay's primary problem here - among other not insignifcant ones, to be sure - is that this is all way, way, way too office-focused. Goofy location for office to begin with. And now it's (office), if not a non-starter, something much nearer to that than simply being goofy.

How much of the current plan is slated for residential? Is there a way to switch from office to resi without a complete renegotiation of the LY master plan?

[Jibba]

Originally Posted by dropdeaded209

... unfortunately you'd be asking a lot of the pig drivers who cruise the city's streets.

Not to get too far off topic but I just spent three weeks in Chicago shooting a new film and the behavior of drivers is abominable.

It's terrible. And every 10th one has a straight-piped exhaust with no muffler. It sounds like a f**king racetrack downtown and any major commercial strip. It's embarrassing. The police are seemingly doing nothing about it. Then again, the majority of people seem to not want the police to do anything, so there you have it...

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

I'd say Sterling Bay's primary problem here - among other not insignifcant ones, to be sure - is that this is all way, way, way too office-focused. Goofy location for office to begin with. And now it's (office), if not a non-starter, something much nearer to that than simply being goofy.

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

How much of the current plan is slated for residential? Is there a way to switch from office to resi without a complete renegotiation of the LY master plan?

As I posted in the Politics thread, they are entitled for 6,500 units across the North and South sections of Lincoln Yards.

If they want to build residential here, nobody is stopping them. I would probably start with the North section where people can actually walk to Mariano's for groceries or walk to Metra to catch a train, but that's just me...

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ardecila

As I posted in the Politics thread, they are entitled for 6,500 units across the North and South sections of Lincoln Yards.

If they want to build residential here, nobody is stopping them. I would probably start with the North section where people can actually walk to Mariano's for groceries or walk to Metra to catch a train, but that's just me...

For sure, they are entitled to go ahead with a bunch of resi. However, it's clear to me that they're going to need to shift most of the rest to resi. And, it's highly likely in my view this is not at all what they were planning and certainly not planning for. I'm assuming they wanted to kick things off with multiple commercial buildings. Both this and the 78 are going to need to shift most of the commercial (clearly not all of it, but a majority) of the commercial/r&d/life sciences, etc, etc to resi. Lakeshore East did something quite similar and successfully (although I say that and I would love to know how successful the St Regis tower is.....I have questions there!) in terms of a shift 15-20 years ago.....

[ardecila]

Yes Lakeshore East and Central Station were both planned with an office component and both of those died pretty quickly in the 90s/2000s. But Fulton Market has popped up and is undeniably a successful office cluster outside of the traditional core (I know you have your concerns lol)

In general I do think changing settlement and transportation patterns are making these outlying office clusters more feasible (in the context of greatly reduced demand for office overall). The North Side is no longer the only game in town for professional class people to live in the city... the whole South Lakefront is opening up, plus Pilsen, Bridgeport, Tri-Taylor, West Humboldt etc. That means we will not be stuck with a Loop core and a Near North appendage, but the core will continue to expand out in all directions and spring up satellites.

We've also got work from home trends that are here to stay, which means employers are not prioritizing easy transit access alone but balancing transit access with some amount of on-site or street parking for employees to drive in occasionally, and they are increasingly hiring from a talent pool within 1-2 miles of the office. It's easier to do that in Fulton Market or The 78 etc than in the heart of the Loop. Here in Pilsen, Blue Cross Blue Shield has established a back office in the middle of a residential block - it's a walkable area but they built a parking garage for their employees. That kind of stuff is happening all over.

Finally we've got new ways to move around the city... I really wish we were investing more in transit solutions around downtown and surrounding, but we now have rideshare, Divvy, scooters, water taxi, private shuttles and frankly a younger generation of people who seem less hesitant to walk .75-1 mile across the city. Some people will of course try to drive 5 days a week and traffic will likely get worse. I don't think worsening traffic will be the end of the world nor will it threaten the continued growth in these areas. I'm hopeful the new mayor will prioritize bus lanes, bike lanes and other mid-cost investments to give people an alternative to sitting in that congestion.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Yes Lakeshore East and Central Station were both planned with an office component and both of those died pretty quickly in the 90s/2000s. But Fulton Market has popped up and is undeniably a successful office cluster outside of the traditional core (I know you have your concerns lol)

In general I do think changing settlement and transportation patterns are making these outlying office clusters more feasible (in the context of greatly reduced demand for office overall). The North Side is no longer the only game in town for professional class people to live in the city... the whole South Lakefront is opening up, plus Pilsen, Bridgeport, Tri-Taylor, West Humboldt etc. That means we will not be stuck with a Loop core and a Near North appendage, but the core will continue to expand out in all directions and spring up satellites.

We've also got work from home trends that are here to stay, which means employers are not prioritizing easy transit access alone but balancing transit access with some amount of on-site or street parking for employees to drive in occasionally, and they are increasingly hiring from a talent pool within 1-2 miles of the office. It's easier to do that in Fulton Market or The 78 etc than in the heart of the Loop. Here in Pilsen, Blue Cross Blue Shield has established a back office in the middle of a residential block - it's a walkable area but they built a parking garage for their employees. That kind of stuff is happening all over.

Finally we've got new ways to move around the city... I really wish we were investing more in transit solutions around downtown and surrounding, but we now have rideshare, Divvy, scooters, water taxi, private shuttles and frankly a younger generation of people who seem less hesitant to walk .75-1 mile across the city. Some people will of course try to drive 5 days a week and traffic will likely get worse. I don't think worsening traffic will be the end of the world nor will it threaten the continued growth in these areas. I'm hopeful the new mayor will prioritize bus lanes, bike lanes and other mid-cost investments to give people an alternative to sitting in that congestion.

I range between agnostic and agree with the vast majority of this. AND, it's still not inconsistent with my assertion that the majority of the non-residential planned for Lincoln Yards is going to need to switch to residential. You can make a stronger argument about the 78 being better placed for non-resi, however I'd still think a meaningful portion of the commercial/research/institutional etc planned there will also need to make the switch.

[ardecila]

I think LY is a fine place for offices, just not office towers. There's arguably some demand for small office buildings like SB built for CH Robinson, or like the Philly Navy Yard. Either single tenant build-to-suit or tech incubator type buildings. But that kind of building won't pay the immense bills on 3 new river bridges and a network of public spaces.

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by ardecila

But that kind of building won't pay the immense bills on 3 new river bridges and a network of public spaces.

Three new bridges? I thought it was scaled back to just one?

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I think LY is a fine place for offices, just not office towers. There's arguably some demand for small office buildings like SB built for CH Robinson, or like the Philly Navy Yard. Either single tenant build-to-suit or tech incubator type buildings. But that kind of building won't pay the immense bills on 3 new river bridges and a network of public spaces.

YES. Small. Boutiquey. A few quirky little 50-100k sf offices. Fine.
Not new large scale cluster office, not a new destination for office in Chicago......which I have this strange suspicion is what they've underwritten.

[Randomguy34]

That's probably why they're seeking a new financing structure. The old plan assumed over 10 million sq ft of office, then of course the pandemic hit and having large office leases is no longer attractive. Investors expecting significant office leases likely backed out when that didn't pan.

[r18tdi]

I'm a bit surprised SB didn't go in for a casino bid at this location. It would have been a nightmare, but at least it would have solved a big part of the commercial equation.

[HomrQT]

Isn't Chicago really hurting for residential space right now? Why not pivot into that?

[twister244]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

Isn't Chicago really hurting for residential space right now? Why not pivot into that?

That seems like the logical step here.

CRE is a complete disaster, and I don't expect it to get any better anytime soon. There might be enough inertia to get a good class A building here and there if the right tenant (Chase) wants it, but overall, given the vacancy rate right now, new office space seems like wishful thinking.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by twister244

That seems like the logical step here.

CRE is a complete disaster, and I don't expect it to get any better anytime soon. There might be enough inertia to get a good class A building here and there if the right tenant (Chase) wants it, but overall, given the vacancy rate right now, new office space seems like wishful thinking.

Yeah.....Chase won't be going to Lincoln Yards (other than a retail branch!)

As soon as I typed that, my mind went to Lightfoot's scoff that Brandon Johnson is not going to be mayor.

That stated, Chase won't be going to Lincoln Yards.

[west-town-brad]

Lincoln Yards sits between two of the most in demand and restrictive housing neighborhoods in the city. It's a great place for high density housing I think.

I know the SB wanted to build office so they could flip the buildings to pension funds at ever inflating prices, but that party be done.