Gas Prices

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I find gas prices mattering only to those caring to check how much gas is when filling up. I just visit whichever gas station is the nearest once a month to fill up on V-Power, price be whatever.

Let them eat cake!

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Let them eat cake!

good thing the government is already doing that!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Let them eat cake!

Klazu isn't wrong though. I have PetroPoints linked to my Avion card so that gets me three cents off at any PetroCanada. They have a lot of stations so there are a couple on my commute and a couple very close by. Other than that I'm not going to drive all over Hell's half acre looking to save a few cents. That's a false economy and bad for the environment. Literally, if it 10 cents cheaper elsewhere else that's a whopping $6. For most of the people complaining that's one venti latte a week or 2/3 of their McDonalds drive thru meal.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Klazu isn't wrong though. I have PetroPoints linked to my Avion card so that gets me three cents off at any PetroCanada. They have a lot of stations so there are a couple on my commute and a couple very close by. Other than that I'm not going to drive all over Hell's half acre looking to save a few cents. That's a false economy and bad for the environment. Literally, if it 10 cents cheaper elsewhere else that's a whopping $6. For most of the people complaining that's one venti latte a week or 2/3 of their McDonalds drive thru meal.

The argument is all over the place.

Klazu said:

Nice! You may have saved back the extra money you paid for your EV over an ICE in the next 10 years!

But then he fills with premium and doesn't care about the price. So which is it?

The bottom line is, the sooner you get an EV, the sooner you stop caring about gas prices, and start saving money.

"I don't care about the price because I'm rich" is just a dumb argument.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The argument is all over the place.

Klazu said:


But then he fills with premium and doesn't care about the price. So which is it?

The bottom line is, the sooner you get an EV, the sooner you stop caring about gas prices, and start saving money.

"I don't care about the price because I'm rich" is just a dumb argument.

I have a five year old car I bought new. At this point it makes no sense to trade it in for an EV.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I have a five year old car I bought new. At this point it makes no sense to trade it in for an EV.

... and if you had bought a new EV 5 years ago it would be about 5 years away from needing new batteries(?)

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

... and if you had bought a new EV 5 years ago it would be about 5 years away from needing new batteries(?)

You shouldn't unless you drive a lot more than the average. In BC the 'average' driver goes 13,100 km (8,140 miles) a year. (source Natural Resources Canada, Office of Energy Resources).

Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles (321,869 km). So that's just under 25 years before an average driver would have to switch a battery pack.

If you do have to replace it, it should be under $10,000 - over the past 10 years battery prices have fallen from $1,160 per kWh in 2010 to $137 in 2020. With the Tesla 3, Elon Musk claimed in 2019 that current Model 3 battery modules should last much longer - 300,000 to 500,000 miles, which is the equivalent of 1,500 cycles. After this, the battery modules could be replaced, at a cost of roughly $5,000 to $7,000 US. Tesla Canada warranty batteries on a Model 3 standard for 8 years or 160,000 km (further on the performance or long range models).

So it should still be way cheaper to own an operate an EV even if you have to replace the battery pack.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I have a five year old car I bought new. At this point it makes no sense to trade it in for an EV.

Isn't it worth almost what you paid for it? Oh, no, it isn't a Tesla.

It sounds like you're doing something wrong - apparently $2.21 a litre is such a minor expense that you just fill up once a week without bothering to notice how much it's costing you.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

... and if you had bought a new EV 5 years ago it would be about 5 years away from needing new batteries(?)

If that was true, it would mean that you'd been driving so much every year that the gas savings would handily pay for the new battery.

20,000 km/year at 10 litres/100km = 2,000 litres per year.
2,000 litres at $1.50/litre (if that ever comes back) = $3,000 / year

The same 20,000 km / year at 15 kWh/100 km = 3,000 kWh /year
3,000 kWh at $0.12/kWh = $360

So you're saving well over $2,500 per year. That's $25,000 per 10 years. Considerably more than that at today's gas prices.

And that's not even counting the complete elimination of engine and brake maintenance.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

If that was true, it would mean that you'd been driving so much every year that the gas savings would handily pay for the new battery.

20,000 km/year at 10 litres/100km = 2,000 litres per year.
2,000 litres at $1.50/litre (if that ever comes back) = $3,000 / year

The same 20,000 km / year at 15 kWh/100 km = 3,000 kWh /year
3,000 kWh at $0.12/kWh = $360

So you're saving well over $2,500 per year. That's $25,000 per 10 years. Considerably more than that at today's gas prices.

And that's not even counting the complete elimination of engine and brake maintenance.

That's all well and good now but in 5 to 10 years when EVs are much more prevalent all the layers of government leeching of gas taxes will notice that their revenue is declining. Then they will do the simplest and fastest thing possible - shift all those taxes and levies to hydro. Not only will your EV charging be much more expensive, but also hydro for your home.

Also if you are like me and drive very little (< 5K a year) and live in a large strata electric car would be a very expensive and very impractical toy. So what I really need is an electric robo-taxi. Or cheap electric car that charges in like 15 minutes on an omni-present fast charging EV station.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by WBC

That's all well and good now but in 5 to 10 years when EVs are much more prevalent all the layers of government leeching of gas taxes will notice that their revenue is declining. Then they will do the simplest and fastest thing possible - shift all those taxes and levies to hydro. Not only will your EV charging be much more expensive, but also hydro for your home.

Also if you are like me and drive very little (< 5K a year) and live in a large strata electric car would be a very expensive and very impractical toy. So what I really need is an electric robo-taxi. Or cheap electric car that charges in like 15 minutes on an omni-present fast charging EV station.

Probably just easier to tax the registration.

I find these hypothetical arguments pretty silly though. Single family home owners could just start generating their own power if the taxes were jacked up anyways. Solar panels aren't that expensive. They just make no sense when electricity is dirt cheap.

I've got a 10 year old PHEV (Chevy Volt). The battery still has ~87% of the original capacity at 117K kms. 13.9 of 16 kWh. The manufacturer locked out about 37% of the capacity originally to decrease the discharge depth, so I haven't noticed a thing from a user standpoint. Newer stuff will probably last longer, and larger batteries will be less stressed, so they should also last longer.

Most people don't seem to acknowledge that old gas motors degrade as well. They usually don't change much from a mileage perspective, but they often give significantly less peak power unless rebuilt.

There's a lot of people out there that seem to think they're travelling trombone repairmen, or aspire to tow a 5 tonne boat across the province. Most of them don't use a fraction of the potential their vehicles have.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

"I don't care about the price because I'm rich" is just a dumb argument.

It's not surprising that someone who regularly posts conservative viewpoints has this as an underlying value though...

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

There's a lot of people out there that seem to think they're travelling trombone repairmen, or aspire to tow a 5 tonne boat across the province. Most of them don't use a fraction of the potential their vehicles have.

As someone who grew up on a farm towing cattle in a stock trailer and hauling firewood and hay bales in the box, it drives me up a wall when some executive drives his 3/4 tonne around the city, taking up 1.5 parking spots and adding to noise and air pollution when all he uses his truck for is pulling his boat in and out of the lake twice per year.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I have a five year old car I bought new. At this point it makes no sense to trade it in for an EV.

How long do you normally keep vehicles? Years 5+ after warranties expire are when maintenance costs start to add up as well.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by WBC

That's all well and good now but in 5 to 10 years when EVs are much more prevalent all the layers of government leeching of gas taxes will notice that their revenue is declining. Then they will do the simplest and fastest thing possible - shift all those taxes and levies to hydro. Not only will your EV charging be much more expensive, but also hydro for your home.

Also if you are like me and drive very little (< 5K a year) and live in a large strata electric car would be a very expensive and very impractical toy. So what I really need is an electric robo-taxi. Or cheap electric car that charges in like 15 minutes on an omni-present fast charging EV station.

You can make up a scenario to justify anything. The chances of you being correct over a person using real world numbers and facts is extremely low.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

How long do you normally keep vehicles? Years 5+ after warranties expire are when maintenance costs start to add up as well.

It depends on the car. I quite like the current one but the thing that would probably get me to buy is to upgrade the technology as much as switching to an electric car. There are so many more driver aids commonly available now.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It depends on the car. I quite like the current one but the thing that would probably get me to buy is to upgrade the technology as much as switching to an electric car. There are so many more driver aids commonly available now.

I think buying a new ICE today would be a financial mistake. They will depreciate incredibly quickly in the medium term. Lease if you must, or go with an EV.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

How long do you normally keep vehicles? Years 5+ after warranties expire are when maintenance costs start to add up as well.

My normal span for car ownership is over 10 years. I am hoping to get at least 15 years out of the Chevy Bolt EV that I bought new in 2017.

But I also have a camperized Plymouth Voyager that I bought new in 1994. I was shocked when I checked recently and discovered that the Transport Canada rated fuel efficiency for new vans hasn't really improved noticeably from the 13.5l/100km that my van was rated back when it was new. I routinely get around 10-12 l/100km from it during road trips today even though it's close to 30 years old.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

"I don't care about the price because I'm rich" is just a dumb argument.

Read again. I said that I don't care if the one monthly fill up will cost me $115 or $120, as I drive so little. Not sure why you made this about affluence. Me putting maybe $1,500 to gas annually is worth not thinking about gas prices.

Not sure why some are always trying to twist everything into a class war. In my case driving a high-performance ICE is the economical and way more fun option.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Not sure why some are always trying to twist everything into a class war. In my case driving a high-performance ICE is the economical and way more fun option.

A lot of your posts sound awfully classist. eg non-market/social housing