Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[IanS]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

All of these are infractions too and show that everyone is guilty of being impatient.

I agree. There's no reason to believe that cyclists are any better or worse than any other people on the road, including pedestrians.

[CoryHolmes]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

yeah they have em in montreal, hamilton and i think toronto - vancouver is still waiting to get em

So Vancouver doesn't have them yet? I should've known better than to expect any progressive in this city...

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by CoryHolmes

So Vancouver doesn't have them yet? I should've known better than to expect any progressive in this city...

Well we do have one issue to overcome that those other cities do not, you can find out more about that on this forum: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=183834

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Article from CKNW: http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/New...spx?ID=1276211

Originally Posted by racc

Initially I was surprised at the number of cyclists not stopping the red light. I have only seen two or three not stopping red lights in the dozens of times on Dunsmuir. Then I googled Citadel Parade and realized that it is at the t-intersection to the east of Beatty.

THAT's the location CKNW chose to document how many cyclists go through a red light? That's like tallying a bike count at midnight and using it to complain about the paucity of cyclists.

The bike lane does NOT cross any traffic lanes at that intersection (it's a "T" intersection and the bike lane is on the "top" side of the "T"), and there's a "yield to pedestrians" sign where the bike lane crosses the pedestrian crosswalks. I've always interpreted that sign as an indication that bicycles are not required to stop for the red light. If you WERE required to stop for the red light, there would be NO NEED for the sign.

It may well be that I'm wrong about that, but I can't imagine any judge failing to understand why myself or other cyclists would draw that conclusion. Until they clarify the signage, there's no way that they can expect cyclists to get it right.

If CKNW wants to document how many cyclists break the rules, then they should at least find a place where the rules are a lot less ambiguous.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

THAT's the location CKNW chose to document how many cyclists go through a red light? That's like tallying a bike count at midnight and using it to complain about the paucity of cyclists.

The bike lane does NOT cross any traffic lanes at that intersection (it's a "T" intersection and the bike lane is on the "top" side of the "T"), and there's a "yield to pedestrians" sign where the bike lane crosses the pedestrian crosswalks. I've always interpreted that sign as an indication that bicycles are not required to stop for the red light. If you WERE required to stop for the red light, there would be NO NEED for the sign.

It may well be that I'm wrong about that, but I can't imagine any judge failing to understand why myself or other cyclists would draw that conclusion. Until they clarify the signage, there's no way that they can expect cyclists to get it right.

If CKNW wants to document how many cyclists break the rules, then they should at least find a place where the rules are a lot less ambiguous.

Perhaps write to CKNW explaining things and ask them to update the article and/or write a new one like they did today.
http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/New...spx?ID=1276863

[aberdeen5698]

Gordon Price has posted an interesting item on his "Price Tags" blog comparing the huge crowd of cyclists which set off on the ride to Whistler this morning to the people who commute by bicycle into Vancouver every day. His point was that if you gathered all of the daily bike commuters into one place then it would look a little like this:



From: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/7166/

[tybuilding]

Surrey has been upgrading the bike lane markings around King George Boulevard and 96th Ave

[deasine]

That is ONE BRIGHT red

[cornholio]

Big issue is the traffic jam that has been created on Dunsmuir. Its now impossible to make it through the green wave and as a result the trip time has been doubled and sometimes tripled. The street is now stuck in a traffic jam most of the day while before it was free flowing, that is a big difference. Im all for designating and calming side streets for bikes but doing so to major streets, the arteries of the city is crazy. How can anyone say that the quality of life has improved when now most of the people using that route are losing time, including commercial vehicles.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by deasine

That is ONE BRIGHT red

indeed it is.

I should also note that all four quadrants will be coloured at the intersection. It is the same material that you see at the Dunsmuir bike lanes (green)

[SpikePhanta]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Big issue is the traffic jam that has been created on Dunsmuir. Its now impossible to make it through the green wave and as a result the trip time has been doubled and sometimes tripled. The street is now stuck in a traffic jam most of the day while before it was free flowing, that is a big difference. Im all for designating and calming side streets for bikes but doing so to major streets, the arteries of the city is crazy. How can anyone say that the quality of life has improved when now most of the people using that route are losing time, including commercial vehicles.

I remember when it was free flowing and basically you don't need to even stop eastbound because the next street light would just turn green.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

I remember when it was free flowing and basically you don't need to even stop eastbound because the next street light would just turn green.

The reason that this is so is that some people are still making now illegal right turns and thus clogging the street. Secondly the addition of peds operated traffic light on Citadel has made things much worse on the viaduct. And thirdly some people insist on driving 30 km/h (especially on the weekend) and marveling at the bike lanes and the shiny buildings downtown.

If you wanted a better solution that would be to turn Pender into one way street running towards Chinatown and dedicate a two way bike lane on it. That would probably have less impact on traffic.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

I remember when it was free flowing and basically you don't need to even stop eastbound because the next street light would just turn green.

Sadly the fools running Vancouver forgot that Dunsmuir is meant to be the link from the East to the Lions Gate Bridge and keep that thru traffic off the other downtown streets.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

Surrey has been upgrading the bike lane markings around King George Boulevard and 96th Ave

looks like we can watch them put the other side in right now!

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Im all for designating and calming side streets for bikes but doing so to major streets, the arteries of the city is crazy

The problem is that on the downtown peninsula there are no "side" streets - they're all heavily used major streets. There's going to be issues no matter where the east/west bike lane goes. And Dunsmuir is a logical choice for the bike lane because it's already a one-way street and it links up perfectly with the viaduct and the Union / Adanac bike route, one of the most heavily-used cycling routes in the city. See figure 3 of: http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/...uments/tt1.pdf

[madmigs]

From today's Buzzer Blog about bikes, cars, and pedestrians in New York City. I even learned something - a bike salmon is a person who rides a bike on the street against the flow of traffic. Note: this article is written by a cyclist who is upset with other cyclists for their bad behavior, and also with pedestrians and cars.

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmo...w-york-biking/

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by madmigs

From today's Buzzer Blog about bikes, cars, and pedestrians in New York City. I even learned something - a bike salmon is a person who rides a bike on the street against the flow of traffic. Note: this article is written by a cyclist who is upset with other cyclists for their bad behavior, and also with pedestrians and cars.

Very interesting read, thanks for posting the link!

I particularly liked the quote at the end:

Excluding for the moment the fact that many people are pedestrians and cyclists and drivers at various points in the day, a considerate person is a considerate person and an idiot is an idiot, and both will behave as such regardless of how they are propelling themselves at any given moment.

We need to make it socially unacceptable for people to be idiots...

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

indeed it is.

I should also note that all four quadrants will be coloured at the intersection. It is the same material that you see at the Dunsmuir bike lanes (green)

I would of had a portion of it Green though to designate the bike lane but its not too confusing.

The Bike Salmon

a bike salmon is a person who rides a bike on the street against the flow of traffic. Note: this article is written by a cyclist who is upset with other cyclists for their bad behavior, and also with pedestrians and cars.

I am most familiar with this one from the King George Boulevard bike lanes in Surrey. Thankfully the bike lanes are fairly empty and around 8ft wide. The bike salmon will also ride on the sidewalk and not wear a helmet.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Big issue is the traffic jam that has been created on Dunsmuir. Its now impossible to make it through the green wave and as a result the trip time has been doubled and sometimes tripled. The street is now stuck in a traffic jam most of the day while before it was free flowing, that is a big difference.

Prior to the canada line, the south fraser coaches would use the dunsmuir block between seymour and granville for staging, meaning 2 or 3 buses parked in that lane on weekdays. This is anectodal, but based on me driving on that street a few times every week for the past ~10 yrs it has always been congested especially in the afternoon rush. For me the 'green wave' only worked in off-peak hours, even without the bike lane.

Nowadays, car traffic on Pender>Georgia>>Dunsmuir can move quite fast as long as there is no wipeout on the bridge/causeway. Then you'd be hooped even with no bike lane..

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by WBC

The reason that this is so is that some people are still making now illegal right turns and thus clogging the street. Secondly the addition of peds operated traffic light on Citadel has made things much worse on the viaduct. And thirdly some people insist on driving 30 km/h (especially on the weekend) and marveling at the bike lanes and the shiny buildings downtown.

If you wanted a better solution that would be to turn Pender into one way street running towards Chinatown and dedicate a two way bike lane on it. That would probably have less impact on traffic.

I've been finding the light at Beatty never syncs up with the Citadel light, and the traffic never gets moving fast due to volume. The 2 through lanes going the Citadel and Beatty intersections are also a considerable bottleneck. It seems like each intersection after Beatty and Citadel are ok.

Either way, I still think this bike lane is spectacularly bad solution.