Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[le calmar]

TIL Pierre Lapointe was from Gatineau. And you can tell he intentionally decided to keep the Québécois accent, though he toned it down to better “blend in”. I would even say he sort of got the sweet spot.

[harls]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

When I speak Spanish, I'm often asked if I am German or Swedish. Once I was asked if I was Irish.

You should be proud.

I'd like to be like Jason Bourne, but New Brisavoine would be that one border guard that figures me out..

[le calmar]

There’s no escaping New Brisavoine’s astucity. He’ll figure within a fraction of second you’re a fake. That said, since you spent enough time in Quebec he may let you stay in his basement with the rest of us francophones when his prediction about the complete collapse of Canada materializes.

[harls]

Originally Posted by le calmar

There’s no escaping New Brisavoine’s astucity. He’ll figure within a fraction of second you’re a fake. That said, since you spent enough time in Quebec he may let you stay in his basement with the rest of us francophones when his prediction about the complete collapse of Canada materializes.

I hope my 25 year stay in Quebec, raising two kids, getting to married to someone from Abitibi, is enough.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I would think Trump should really jolt Quebecers into thinking about the sovereignty question. He's looking at Canada the way McKinley was looking at Hawaii. He won't be the last. This makes the idea of an independent Quebec a lot more questionable. More than likely a breakup of Canada may well mean forced inclusion into the US for all of us. At what point will they say, "That's where we get a ton of resources, and where a lot of the electricity for the Northeast comes from. We should secure it."

Imagine what Trump could do if Quebec voted for sovereignty. He would have a much easier time bullying Quebec compared to Canada as it is now. He could tear up agreements and create economic chaos more easily. Quebecers wouldn't be able to rely on the agreements (hydro for example) and friendliness that existed in the past and Trump would be meddling in Quebec society.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Imagine what Trump could do if Quebec voted for sovereignty. He would have a much easier time bullying Quebec compared to Canada as it is now. He could tear up agreements and create economic chaos more easily. Quebecers wouldn't be able to rely on the agreements (hydro for example) and friendliness that existed in the past and Trump would be meddling in Quebec society.

Maybe Trump would employ his Gaza solution on Quebec.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The PQ also has a decent reputation as a steady hand in government, no? Well, apart from that independence thing ...

It really depends who you talk with. Overall, economic performance has been significantly weaker under PQ governments. The PQ isn't business-friendly and is very pro-union. Yes, independence is the party's top priority which causes investors to be afraid of new ventures there. But many PQ supporters like a government that tells big corporations who's boss and one that has a pro-social stand.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by harls

I hope my 25 year stay in Quebec, raising two kids, getting to married to someone from Abitibi, is enough.

I don't think you ever mentioned that your spouse is from Abitibi. That's really cool.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by harls

I'd like to be like Jason Bourne, but New Brisavoine would be that one border guard that figures me out..

I'm a fluent Spanish speaker, so yeah, I can spot the accents.

Funny enough, Spanish speakers often think I'm from Peru. The first time I was told that (by a Hispanic cashier in LA) I thought that was super odd, but I've been told that several times since, so there must be some truth to it.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by le calmar

when his prediction about the complete collapse of Canada materializes.

I've never predicted anything. Or rather, the only thing I've predicted in this thread is that Québec would remain a problem inside Canada as long as they continue to speak French, which I think is hard to oppose as a prediction.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Overall, economic performance has been significantly weaker under PQ governments.

That's not really confirmed by stats. They were pretty successful economically during the first part of Lévesque's terms in power, as well as under Lucien Bouchard and Bernard Landry, and even during the 1st year of Pauline Marois. On the other hand Québec stagnated in the end of the Charest's years, and experienced a decline in the beginning of both Charest and Couillard's terms.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Imagine what Trump could do if Quebec voted for sovereignty. He would have a much easier time bullying Quebec compared to Canada as it is now. He could tear up agreements and create economic chaos more easily. Quebecers wouldn't be able to rely on the agreements (hydro for example) and friendliness that existed in the past and Trump would be meddling in Quebec society.

I think there is beyond a non-zero chance that in any dissolution scenario, the US would force a complete takeover, through economic or military means. They aren't going to allow turmoil on their northern border. Especially, if there's even a small risk that any of the successor states could cut deals with other foreign powers.

One look at the rhetoric on Greenland and Panama should tell you how they would see a country with an even smaller population than Canada.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

This is basically in line with broader Canadian economic performance. Nothing particular about Quebec here.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I think there is beyond a non-zero chance that in any dissolution scenario, the US would force a complete takeover, through economic or military means. They aren't going to allow turmoil on their northern border. Especially, if there's even a small risk that any of the successor states could cut deals with other foreign powers.

One look at the rhetoric on Greenland and Panama should tell you how they would see a country with an even smaller population than Canada.

Indeed. If the Yanks had good intel that the leader of the new PQ government of an independent Quebec was planning a peace and friendship meeting with the Chinese or Russians, I think that would be the end of the sovereigntist dream tout de suite.

If you think dealing with those damned Canadian anglos is bad, wait until your only neighbour is the Americans!!!

[big T]

^ in fact this might happen whether there is actual intel or not. I don’t recall facts ever getting in the way of an invasion when US economic and security interests are at stake, regardless of which party happens to be in power in DC.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by le calmar

There’s no escaping New Brisavoine’s astucity. He’ll figure within a fraction of second you’re a fake. That said, since you spent enough time in Quebec he may let you stay in his basement with the rest of us francophones when his prediction about the complete collapse of Canada materializes.

You sent me to the dictionary. I thought it was astuteness (only), but it turns out "astucity" is legit. I learned a new word today!

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You sent me to the dictionary. I thought it was astuteness (only), but it turns out "astucity" is legit. I learned a new word today!

To be honest, I was not sure the word was legit as I was typing it. I somehow had a feeling I'd seen it somewhere though. I admit I had to double check.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by le calmar

To be honest, I was not sure the word was legit as I was typing it. I somehow had a feeling I'd seen it somewhere though. I admit I had to double check.

Bravo! I expanded my English vocabulary visiting a thread exhorting Quebec secessionism. Who would have thought..........

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Bravo! I expanded my English vocabulary visiting a thread exhorting Quebec secessionism. Who would have thought..........

It's a very Quebec thing ...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That's not really confirmed by stats. They were pretty successful economically during the first part of Lévesque's terms in power, as well as under Lucien Bouchard and Bernard Landry, and even during the 1st year of Pauline Marois. On the other hand Québec stagnated in the end of the Charest's years, and experienced a decline in the beginning of both Charest and Couillard's terms.

I'd add that every time Quebec elects the PQ, there is often a subtle but still impactful move to punish Quebec economically for its political decisions. Disinvestment and just generally pushing a negative economic narrative about Quebec. Regardless of the facts on the ground or even the business climate.

In some periods it was even essentially a form of sabotage practised by the Canadian business establishment and even part of the Quebec-based business establishment (before and after they leave the province).

I am sure some (especially KW!) will say it was simply a question of basic self-preservation and self-interest. I suppose that is true to some degree but spite clearly played and plays a big role in it.

So also take that into account when you look at the numbers during the PQ years.