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  #1261  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 5:23 PM
Don B. Don B. is offline
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I used to park (for free) in the frat house parking lots north of College while attending ASU from 2001 to 2004 and walk to class. That and the eye candy around always made it kind of fun. I'll miss those days.

--don
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  #1262  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 5:56 PM
shawneriksmith shawneriksmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxSprawler View Post
Isn't the party scene part of what makes a fraternity thrive? Also, for historic preservation's sake, wouldn't these be the buildings to preserve? As ghetto looking as they are, they have had some great times. Porno, sexual assault, murder, and enough alcohol to endrunken a small continent. In addition, give it five years, there will be nothing left to be nostalgic about for the ASU alumni. All the bars will be gone, all the buildings will be replaced, all the breasts will be fake. What will be left?
Just because a building is old doesn't qualify mean it should be preserved. And, buildings associated with "porno, sexual assault, murder, and enough alcohol to endrunken a small continent" shouldn't be the type of buildings that are defined as "historic". If everything older than 20 years old is deemed "historic", then nothing would get replaced/built and no development would occur. The fraternities can move to other houses and that location is too valuable not to be used for ASU/convention center space.
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  #1263  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 6:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawneriksmith View Post
Just because a building is old doesn't qualify mean it should be preserved. And, buildings associated with "porno, sexual assault, murder, and enough alcohol to endrunken a small continent" shouldn't be the type of buildings that are defined as "historic". If everything older than 20 years old is deemed "historic", then nothing would get replaced/built and no development would occur. The fraternities can move to other houses and that location is too valuable not to be used for ASU/convention center space.
My bad, I forget sarcasm doesn't always convey in writing.

On a more humble note, people take fraternities pretty seriously. I am actually shocked they are supportive of the changes. There are centuries-old frat houses in parts of the nation. Maybe the ones in question are not worth preserving, but what at ASU is? College is a significant and memorable four+ years in a person's life. When all the dorms, all the frat houses, all the bars, all the meeting places, etc. are torn down, there is not much left to remember. I am all for development and growth, but there is something to be said for preserving tradition and nostalgia. Standing in a building with 40+ years of fraternity tradition is better than a new building that will likely be demolished for something better in 20 years.

I really do not personally care about the dorms to preserve them, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere at ASU. Something has to remain of the ASU to remind me of the time I spent there if the school wants my donations, and I am sure many others feel the same way. The wealthy former frat boys have yet to weigh in on this, but I am sure it is imminent.
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  #1264  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxSprawler View Post
My bad, I forget sarcasm doesn't always convey in writing.

On a more humble note, people take fraternities pretty seriously. I am actually shocked they are supportive of the changes. There are centuries-old frat houses in parts of the nation. Maybe the ones in question are not worth preserving, but what at ASU is? College is a significant and memorable four+ years in a person's life. When all the dorms, all the frat houses, all the bars, all the meeting places, etc. are torn down, there is not much left to remember. I am all for development and growth, but there is something to be said for preserving tradition and nostalgia. Standing in a building with 40+ years of fraternity tradition is better than a new building that will likely be demolished for something better in 20 years.
Hence Old Main, the University Bridge, the Ag building, parts of the MU, Newman Chapel, the chapel near the MU (Matthew Center? Can't think of the name atm...) - are all fairly significant land marks. The frat houses on Alpha drive are - in some cases - structurally unsound, and therefore hardly likely to stand for 100+ years. The loss of classic bars in downtown Tempe is lamentable, as is the complete failure of ASU to build ANY quality buildings worth preserving - witness the plethora of shoddy structures facing an early end-of-life: Language and Lit building, Social Sciences building, Alpha Drive buildings, even many of the Science buildings will need significant upgrades simply to maintain structural integrity. Newer buildings don't show a great deal of promise either. Many of the buildings I attended classes in won't be around in 20-odd years when my kids begin attending ASU (they're still unborn, but they won't have a choice), and that's unfortunate simply from a fiscal perspective, let alone the loss of history.

I agree that a sense of continuity and connection to the past is important to attract alumni dollars, but a bunch of truly ramshackle, cheaply built structures are poor choices to provide that connection. I hope the fraternities realize that these buildings are outdated and that their preservation would be counter-productive. We owe it to future students to provide campus residences that are safe, have ample parking, and have other amenities in order to be competitive with other public universities.
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  #1265  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 9:54 PM
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The M.U. is currently on fire, so hopefully that building won't be lost too!


Last edited by PhxSprawler; Nov 1, 2007 at 9:57 PM. Reason: Added pic from www.azcentral.com
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  #1266  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 1:55 AM
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The MU is the one building that needs to be torn down and replaced. As for the fraternities... Personally, I wasn't a part of the Greek system when I was in school, but I think Alpha Drive should remain the property of the fraternities that own their houses. A thriving Greek system is good for a University. Yeah, there are the parties and booze, but they do provide a good service and are good tool to recruit incoming students. I dislike the UNRB (University of No Rose Bowls or University of Arizona) more than I care to admit, but the one thing that I wish ASU had that they do is the thriving Greek system. They have some great old houses and some really nice new ones. I think a good solution for Alpha Drive would be to somehow require the fraternities to rebuild the houses. They have the money, the new houses would make money and it would be win win for both parties...
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  #1267  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 3:58 AM
dbUNIT16 dbUNIT16 is offline
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I am an Sigma Nu alumni and can promise you, the picture the university is attempt to paint by misleading this student journalist is not so rosy as they paint it. Sigma Nu is not negotiating with the university and will not give up their property, and can promise you others are in the same boat. The only way they'll get that land is by eminent domain.

Having said that, yes, the houses are shit holes. The University needs to help the fraternities rebuild houses. Dorm style housing will kill Greek life.

The problem lies in ASU administration, coming from the top. Ira Fulton has absolute power because of his donations, as is against fraternities. Therefore, this flows down through Crow. The Greek Life "Staff" does not support Greek Life. They are there to criticize and penalize, but don't help put out a good image for fraternities. There might be a sexual assault, there might be underage drinking, but where is there not? And I can guarantee you that a smaller percentage of incidents happen at fraternities that in off-campus, and on-campus for that matter student housing. Quite simply fraternities are stereo typed, and are a scapegoat for the University. So there is illegibly one sexual assault this year... how many have occurred elsewhere? Like I said, we're an easy target, and without the support of powerful alumni and the administration, I fear Greek life will be crushed at ASU. It's unfortunate because Greeks are generally very successful, and tend to donate alot of money to the University.
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  #1268  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 4:14 AM
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^Why should the University foot the bill to help these privileged students build 'houses'? If they care so much, donate so much, and are so well off, why don't they actually do something like build themselves new houses? If it's non-University property, I'd hate to see tax dollars wasted on students and groups that can help themselves. I'd rather see it go into the University General Scholarship Fund or improve campus infrastructure.
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  #1269  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 2:27 PM
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I agree Plinko. I want to see the Greek system at ASU flourish because it only strengthens the University as a whole. However, the University should not help pay for improvements to the houses on Alpha Drive. Many of the fraternities have extremely deep pockets and should pay for any improvement/new houses themselves.
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  #1270  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 10:40 PM
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Hell, it'd be nice if they just paid to keep the lawns watered and mowed or put in some nice landscaping instead of the nasty dirt and abandoned look they have now.
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  #1271  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2007, 10:42 PM
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Mosiac

Saw a bulldoozer on the mosiac site today. Looks like the project will start soon!
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  #1272  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 3:11 AM
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I think Mosaic has 23 reservations....
Crazy that a multi-million dollar tower will be built on such a low amount of seeming interest....
I want a cool high-rise as much as the next guy, but I believe there are 36 highrises in some form proposed in Tempe????
(some are quite a ways out albeit)
This will place Tempe as another Orlando- San Diego mess with values if many get built.

Good for eventual buyers, bad for existing owners....
Supply should come when the demand is there.

As for Greek Row-
I wish these buildings would be cleaned up and remodeled... but not bulldozed.

I think the idea was spearheaded by the Greeks if I am not mistaken?
Maybe Phi-Sigs?
Many students Choose ASU because of the party atmosphere and the prospect of fun! (I did)


On another note- Architekton has a killer proposal behind Farmers Studio... Mixed use- same bad ass design....
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  #1273  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 3:31 AM
desertdj desertdj is offline
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Business owners struggle to find new location

Business owners struggle to find new location

Lauren Proper
Special for the Republic
Nov. 3, 2007 07:01 AM
Businesses on the southwest corner of Mill Avenue and University Drive have been moving out to make room for a CVS.

Residents of the multi-business Tempe complex were given a 30-day notice to vacate from CVS in September, and many are struggling with where to go from there. A 23-year renter, Doug Fielder, owns a costume shop there.

"It's been really rough trying to find a new place," Fielder said.

Fielder was the only resident allowed to stay past the end of October because of the busy Halloween costume season. However, by mid-November, he has to move out and organize his thousands of miscellaneous costumes at his new location.

"Nothing went our way," Fielder said.

Both Fielder and Richard Carlson, the owner of the Long Wongs in the same complex, say that they have no problem with their old landlord, just with the way the deal was carried out.

Carlson said because of the short notice, he has been unable to find another location in Tempe to open up a Long Wongs. He said that rent in other locations close to campus is "four to five times as much for a decent space."

Other business owners are unable to relocate. A barbershop and the Sahara restaurant are left with no affordable places to move.

"They have totally squeezed out the little guy," Carlson said.

There is no definite date for demolition because of concerns with asbestos in some of the buildings. The site of a former gas station on the corner also must be tested for toxicity.


Ha ha here is my pic I took again, I think I messed with my photobucket and accidentally deleted it but it's back!
I know the city keeps saying how much retail space will be opening up around Tempe, but if they will all be high priced rent, where will the unique businesses locate to? I guess thats the big debate that has been going on here forever now though right? Loss of Mill Ave's character, etc....
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  #1274  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 10:37 AM
jvbahn jvbahn is offline
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Well, I personally find it offensive that "the little guy" is trying to get in the way of the obvious plan in the Valley to put one Walgreen's or CVS on every single corner. I won't be satisfied with the level of drugstore saturation until you have a Walgreen's on one corner, then a CVS on the other corner. And of course, make sure you have a big, ugly parking lot along the street and a drive-thru window for your drugs, so if there was any sense of fake urbanity, it is definitely gone up in a exhaust fume smoke.

I mean, in living in such an environment practically guarantees the need for thousands of locations to get a fix for your Xanax, Vicodin, Ritalin, ect. habits.
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  #1275  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 4:43 PM
tempedude tempedude is offline
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Apache Blvd redevelopment

November 5, 2007 - 1:04AM
Apache Blvd. grows from seedy to chic
Garin Groff, Tribune

Apache Boulevard had long been overlooked by anybody who had money — unless they had a few bucks for drugs or a hooker. Now, the rundown buildings and weed-filled lots along Apache are some of Tempe’s hottest real estate.

GRAPHIC: Apache Boulevard developments

Developers have bought some of the bleakest places for new condos, apartments and shops. The area is seeing its biggest boom in decades as builders construct housing and shops that are far nicer than many could have imagined just a few years ago.

Nearly 20 developments are planned or under way on a 2.5-mile stretch of Apache, ranging from eight-story condo buildings to single-family homes.

The area’s rebirth is largely the result of the same thing that made it boom decades ago and then fall into decline: its status as a major transportation corridor.

The boulevard was the original route of U.S. 60 before the Superstition Freeway was started in the 1970s. The new highway diverted drivers from the motels, service stations and restaurants that had thrived for decades.

“Without all that traffic to feed into them, they just weren’t that viable anymore,” said Larry Schmalz, Tempe’s principal planner.

The failed businesses brought blight, and the area became a crime hot spot.

The city spent the last decade closing the worst businesses and buying land that could be developed later.

Several construction projects now are a result of that planning, including 45 houses being built where some of the area’s must rundown houses used to stand.

Tempe began planning a project called Newberry Terrace in 2000 by working with a developer on plans for new housing. The city bought more than five acres of cheaply built, poorly maintained homes and tiny apartment buildings with up to four units each. One of the roads, Newberry Terrace, wasn’t even paved.

Nearly all of the properties were rentals that became a magnet for crime, Schmalz said.

“They were just investors,” he said. “It was all about the money.”

Tempe assembled about 17 parcels and struck a deal with Barton Homes for a mix of single-family homes and attached town homes.

It’s likely the first single-family project to be built in the area in a half-century, said Jim Walton, co-owner of Barton Homes. Walton said the area’s reputation wasn’t an issue because the project has enough critical mass to encourage others to invest, rather than to be overtaken by what’s around it.

“I wouldn’t want to build two homes here, but if you build 45, you kind of create your own weather,” Walton said.

His development is also unusual for its price, about $275,00 to $350,000 for two or three bedrooms. By comparison, the downtown condo towers sell studios or one-bedrooms for $300,000 or more.

The city chose Barton Homes over another developer that planned to build something that likely would have become rentals, Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman said.

The city wanted owner-occupied housing in a part of the city that already has so many rentals, he said.

Hallman expects new-home sales will stay strong in Tempe despite the nationwide downturn. Demand is high because of the city’s large job base, the proximity to transit and the shorter commute times compared with developments on the edge of the Valley.

“Tempe generally is completely different than the rest of the Valley and nation,” Hallman said.

Some other notable Apache projects include:

• The Holiday Inn being converted into a Starwood Four Points Hotel.

• Apartments for low-income seniors who are deaf.

• A new police substation that opened this year.

• A park set to open next year.

• A 450-unit apartment complex at Apache Boulevard and McClintock Drive that includes a park-and-ride garage. The land was first reserved as a transit station parking lot, but Tempe found a developer to build a parking garage surrounded by apartments and shops.

Only a few of the developments will open by December 2008, when the Metro light-rail line is scheduled to start service.

Apache’s full redevelopment will take many years, Schmalz said, just as downtown Tempe’s redevelopment started in the 1970s and is still under way.

Still, the public will see a big step forward within a year, as new landscaping, sidewalks and a few just-opened businesses replace the chaotic effort to build the Metro.

“Once light rail is open and operating, you’ll see the cleaner streets,” Schmalz said. “You’ll see the vision instead of the construction.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting because this article and graphic discusses some of the projects that seem to have fallen off the radar. Looks like some are still alive and kicking like Campus Edge. Gray Developments multiuse project is already underway at Apache and McClintock.

Here is the link so you can see the graphic, its in flash format so I don't know how to import it onto the board.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/101267
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  #1276  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2007, 3:32 AM
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Has anyone been by Bandersnatch to see if it was torn down? I think it was scheduled for demolition last week. I've been in the area, but haven't made it over there to check it out... I'll try swing by there tomorrow if I don't read anything.
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  #1277  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2007, 5:06 AM
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Ya they have completley torn down and cleared out the building.
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  #1278  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2007, 5:58 AM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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Monti’s owner scraps plan for towers
Garin Groff, Tribune
The owner of Monti’s La Casa Vieja has scrapped plans to build a 300-foot-tall tower directly above the historic adobe restaurant after a barrage of criticism from preservationists.

GRAPHIC: See the location of Monti's La Casa Vieja
Owner: Tower above Monti’s only answer

Michael Monti still is planning for two towers to rise on his downtown Tempe property, but he has agreed to move one of them.

Monti’s new plan comes weeks after the city’s Historic Preservation Commission objected to the idea of putting a 25-story building over the Valley’s oldest structure, built in 1871.

Historic preservationists argued the building’s history would be overshadowed by a glass-and-steel tower. And the original plan likely would get the building kicked off a state and a national historic register, the state’s historic preservation officer has said.

While Monti argued he was preserving the interior, he and developer 3W Companies accommodated the historic commission’s request to move the new building.

“It’s as important in the restaurant business, like politics, to have as high an approval as possible,” said Jason Rose, a spokesman for Monti.

The new plan will likely get a good reception now, said Bob Gasser, chairman of Tempe’s historic commission. The group will hear the new proposal Thursday.

“Even some of the strongest voices, I think, will be pleased with this,” Gasser said.

If the group signs off on the plan, the towers face another source of opposition: The City of Phoenix.

The buildings are about 80 feet too tall given their place in the flight path, Phoenix aviation director Danny Murphy told Tempe officials in a letter.

The buildings could pose a risk to planes departing from Sky Harbor International Airport in the rare event that an airliner lost one engine during takeoff. To clear the building safely, Phoenix says the building shouldn’t exceed 220 feet.

Anything taller would require airlines to put less weight on their planes to ensure they could clear the building safely, Murphy wrote.

Rose said he wasn’t worried about the height issue. Phoenix has objected to the height of Tempe projects before, Rose said, only to have the Federal Aviation Administration indicate specific buildings weren’t a hazard.

Monti still plans to keep about 11,000 square feet that make up the oldest parts of the restaurant while tearing down more modern additions. The towers would contain more than 1 million square feet of hotel rooms, condos and shops.

Monti is working to sell the land to 3W Companies, which is working on the tower proposals, but he plans to keep running the restaurant that his father bought in the 1950s. The Monti family has owned the building longer than the Hayden family, which includes Tempe founder Charles Trumbull Hayden. He built the structure and founded the Hayden Flour Mill.

Some critics of Monti’s plan questioned his commitment to preserving history, but Gasser said Monti always has shown passion for the place. He credited Monti for making the changes and said the buildings are positioned to highlight the historic structure.

“He’s been very dedicated to historic preservation, so I don’t have any doubts about his intentions,” Gasser said.

The new design seems to respect the adobe building, said Vic Linoff, owner of the downtown shop Those Were the Days! Linoff is active in historic preservation and said the original plan would have angered some people.

“I think you would have seen preservationists wrapping their arms around that building and trying to save it,” Linoff said.

The new configuration preserves history while letting Monti develop his land at Rio Salado Parkway and Mill Avenue, which Linoff called the Boardwalk and Park Place of Tempe.

“I think what this demonstrates is you can accommodate community standards and still build a successful project,” Linoff said.
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  #1279  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2007, 6:39 AM
desertdj desertdj is offline
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raise your hand if you seen that one coming!
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  #1280  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2007, 7:30 AM
tempedude tempedude is offline
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^^^ding! yeah that one was obvious
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