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  #1261  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 9:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
In the Swedish industrial city of Norrkoping, as well as central parts of Stockholm, hot water pipes are placed under the roads and sidewalks to keep them snow and ice-free, in a country known for cold, icy winters. Although it might be a costly investment, what about the idea of placing similar heated piping under the main runways and principal taxiways at Canada's major airports? Even in cold weather, the heating could be left shut off if there was no precipitation forecast, then switched on during snowstorms or after a heavy snowfall to melt the snow, clear the runways, and keep the taxiways open for the planes to manoeuver. Maybe this sounds impractical, especially in cities like Victoria, which seldom see snow, but at most major Canadian airports, even at Vancouver, which gets infrequent but heavy periodic snow, such infrastructural investment might facilitate the ongoing flow of air traffic and air cargo, and simplify life for everyone.

(If this sounds too costly, remember that notorious white elephant named Mirabel Airport. Surely the cost of this idea couldn't be any higher)
I know rich people up north used to have heated driveways - they always ahd the clearest ones
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  #1262  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 12:28 AM
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Talking ....oh wouldn't that be nice .....

Why Air Canada could be a takeover target
Posted: December 15, 2008, 11:58 AM by Jonathan Ratner
Market Call, credit, loonie, airlines, Air Canada, fuel
ACE Aviation Holdings Inc.’s wind-up proposal, lower fuel prices, a better-than-expected Canadian air travel market, and Canada’s open skies agreement with the European Union could put Air Canada in play, a new report suggests. Its severely depressed share price may also lure strategic or financial buyers.

While it appears that ACE’s asset distribution plan would see its 75% of Air Canada’s outstanding shares passed on to shareholders, a court appointed liquidator would dictate what exactly is done with all of its assets.

Given their willingness to make acquisitions, Lufthansa, Air France/KLM or British Airways could be strategic bidders, according to Scotia Capital analyst David Tyerman. Lufthansa and Air Canada already have a revenue sharing agreement.

The Federal Government’s pact with the EU would eventually raise foreign ownership restrictions limits to 49% of voting shares, up from the current limit of 25%.

Toronto-based Onex Corp. bid for the airline in 1999 but its plan to merge it with Canadian Airlines failed. This time around, financial buyers might be attracted by Air Canada’s considerable asset-based borrowing power, which the analyst pegged a $1.2-billion. Mr. Tyerman said this should allow the company to fund its near-term liquidity challenges, while recent transactions suggest Air Canada should be able to execute on borrowing opportunities.
..............................................................................................
I'd love to see Toronto's air route hegemony go "POP!"
     
     
  #1263  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 5:18 AM
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^That would be sweet.
     
     
  #1264  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 2:20 PM
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Cool encore de champagne, madame, monsieur?

Let's hear it for
year-round scheduled service
Vancouver - Paris CDG !
     
     
  #1265  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 2:28 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Question If someone can tell me how to insert an image....

..... I'd be more than grateful. Thank you to all members for understanding.

Being a computer slow-poke, I'd need step-by-step instrctions; I went to the "Insert Image" symbol, got instructions to go add an URL// ....
then got totally lost. Any takers?
Many thanks.

Last edited by trofirhen; Dec 24, 2008 at 2:40 PM. Reason: tech
     
     
  #1266  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 2:56 PM
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^To insert an image you must have a URL for it. In other words it must be an image you've found on a website or if it's one of your own you need to use an image hosting site such as photobucket.com, imageshack.com, flickr.com, etc.

If you've found it online just right click on the image and copy its address (URL) then paste it when using that 'insert image' icon. Let me know if you need any more info.
     
     
  #1267  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 9:58 PM
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Just hearing about these recent stories about people stuck at the airport (mostly in Toronto and Ottawa) made me think about this whole air travel issue. People are stuck because there's a lot of snow and there's a lot of travellers. Now, had the government be more willing to redirect more stops to other airports instead of concentrating them all in Toronto, maybe this wouldn't be as bad. I see all kinds of stories on CTV and whatnot about people traveling from, say, BC to PEI but is stuck in Toronto because that's where they get their connection flight. There's a huge backlog of flight that needs to leave/arrive at Toronto airport because, well, that's Canada's central airport.

Therefore, I say we need more direct flights around Canada and other places instead of it all being concentrated in Ontario
     
     
  #1268  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 11:00 PM
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I gotr a pick out of reading the story in todays Globeand mail about them blaming the country's airline problem on VYR. Stating the system delays are being caused by us.
Now I'm sure we aren't helping, but the fact is that Toronto and Mtl are causing most of the delays and the planes aren't getting into YVR ontime to begin with.
It's also funny reading that we have received 55cm of snow (the average years worth) in the last week. Maybe I've lost it but since when do we even average 55cm/yr of snow?
     
     
  #1269  
Old Posted Dec 25, 2008, 9:31 AM
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on the news today sounded like some of the problems were pilots had been working their allowed hours - the one passenger said the aircraft was there but there were no pilots to fly it
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  #1270  
Old Posted Dec 25, 2008, 8:54 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Arrow Great idea, but a few complications

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
Just hearing about these recent stories about people stuck at the airport (mostly in Toronto and Ottawa) made me think about this whole air travel issue. People are stuck because there's a lot of snow and there's a lot of travellers. Now, had the government be more willing to redirect more stops to other airports instead of concentrating them all in Toronto, maybe this wouldn't be as bad. I see all kinds of stories on CTV and whatnot about people traveling from, say, BC to PEI but is stuck in Toronto because that's where they get their connection flight. There's a huge backlog of flight that needs to leave/arrive at Toronto airport because, well, that's Canada's central airport.

Therefore, I say we need more direct flights around Canada and other places instead of it all being concentrated in Ontario
I agree with you about how good it would be to have more direct flights from Vancouver (and Calgary, Edmonton, and so forth) to other parts of Canada (take Halifax, as an example) but in all fairness to Air Canada, there is yield management to be considered. I'll try explaining using a simplistic example: imagine you want to fly Vancouver to Halifax. A regularly scheduled daily nonstop to Halifax from Vancouver would be flying about half empty, as the two cities do not have the market size to fill up a plane. The air route, or any route like it, would have a low yield factor and would lose a lot of money. Otherwise stated, there aren't enough people in these cities to warrant a daily service. There is a lot of traffic to Toronto from Vancouver, with a number of nonstops per day, and enough traffic between Toronto and Halifax to warrant a couple of nonstops per day. Toronto is a bigger market with more people, and Halifax is to the east of it, so travellers bound for Halifax from Vancouver are obliged, for financial reasons to the airline, to change in Toronto. This, by the way, is not only a "Toronto" syndrome; parallel circumstances exist in the USA around major hubs like Chicago, Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. -> Therefore, the idea of of flights criss-crossing the country, avoiding Toronto (in addition to those whose destination really IS Toronto) is indeed a very attractive one, but would lower the load factor, and thus the yield factor, to the point where the airline would lose enormous revenues, sending prices up. This is the unpleasant reality of having that smug, arrogant, manipulative city on the lake as our largest air market, located where it is. It's a question of market size, location, and logistics - within Canada. But ..... overseas to Europe from Western Canada, (Vancouver being the major market with enough population to generate high enough traffic volume) ..... that's another story; one which, as I have mentioned here before, may change relatively soon thanks to the Open Skies agreement with the EU.
Right now, the Canadian government, (which promotes Air Canada, and caters to the large voting base in Southern Ontario and to Montreal) obliges someone flying, for example from Vancouver to Paris, or Vancouver to Rome, or to any other major European destination that, theoretically COULD provide a yield factor high enough to warrant nonstops between two given points, as above, to change in Toronto. This is a bit different. This is forced yield management, not yield management out of logistical and economic necessity.
(yes, I know many of you dislike my emoticons, but I use them to make a point).
In these cases, the federal government - UP UNTIL NOW - has had the right to dictate which foreign carriers can or cannot land where in Canada.
For example, the feds had arranged it with the French government that only TWO cities in Canada could be served by Air France (Toronto and Montreal, obvously) and the French in return said that Air Canada could fly nonstop between TWO cities in France, which are Paris and Nice. So we have Toronto-Paris, Toronto-Nice, and Montreal-Paris, and Montreal-Nice. Air France is not allowed to land at any other Canadian airports, although a run from Paris to Vancouver is large enough to justify itself, and would be even moreso, with a stopover in Calgary. But, to protect Air Canada, YYZ, and the voters of Central Canada, Vancouver travellers are obliged to transfer in Toronto or Montreal, or else to transfer in London Heathrow (which is the chaotic lost-luggage champion of the world; Amsterdam, or Frankfurt.) Transferring through Europe can mean you spend nearly five hours in Frankfurt (as I did), or just barely catch your plane if you run hard enough, by going through Amsterdam, even though polar routes are, theoretically much quicker - as long as they're nonstop. (Total flight time: about nine hours) However, the only alternative to that is going to Toronto (four hours), waiting for the Paris-bound flight, (which could be anywhere from 45 minutes on up - more like three hours), then onward to Paris (six hours). As you can see, THIS aspect of yield management means far more transit time for Western Canadian travellers (does Ottawa care? Three guesses,) and many more hours actually spent in the air (tally it up!!) than if Vancouver (Calgary and Edmonton, too, if worked in as stopovers from YVR) had the direct European connections to Paris, Zurich and Rome that took the polar route. But we don't. YET. The current worldwide recession will snarl things up a bit, but when air travel regains its footing, and the Open Skies agreement comes into effect, Toronto will lose its position as a "forced stopover" to Europe that it enjoys now . However, as for intra-Canadian routes go, you'll only see nonstops cirumventing Toronto (and Montreal) if/when there's a load factor - and resulting yield factor - high enough to warrant it. And this will only happen when the cities (and accomanying air markets) get big enough. So, your idea is very praiseworthy, and something a lot of travellers would like to see, but not yet very feasible at the domestic level. Overseas to Europe? Aha... That's another story. Watch and wait on that one as it unfolds. The results should be interesting.

Last edited by trofirhen; Dec 26, 2008 at 3:38 AM. Reason: sp
     
     
  #1271  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2009, 8:28 PM
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Long Term Plan has been released:

Quote:
Our airport to get even larger RICHMOND/CKNW(AM980)

1/8/2009

Operators of the second-busiest airport on the west coast of North America have released a blueprint for growth over the next two decades.

If their numbers are right, by the year 2027, Vancouver's International Airport will be serving more than 33-million passengers a year. That's almost double the 17.5-million recorded in 2007.

YVR injects almost seven-billion dollars a year into the BC economy and currently employs 2.3 per cent of the Metro Vancouver work force.

Longterm plans include building a North-South taxiway, new passenger terminal facilities and a Customs hall, as well as preparations for a third runway.

The 20-year master plan was approved by the Federal Government last year. The 56-page report can be viewed at yvr.ca.
Couldn't find anything at the YVR site except this:

http://www.yvr.ca/yourairport2027/

Anyone else find anything?
     
     
  #1272  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 3:32 AM
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^Thanks! Been waiting on this since I started this thread (almost 4 years ago!)

http://www.yvr.ca/yourairport2027/pdf/yvr_masterplan.pdf

Here's the timeline for their recommendations. Note it assumes medium growth projections, meaning the new runway could easily get pushed beyond the initial 2027 period for improvements.

GATEWAY DEVELOPMENT

2007 LINK BUILDING AND RUNWAY END SAFETY AREA (RESA) REGULATION: Completion of the current Link Building project and expected regulation changes by Transport Canada to extend runway end safety areas to the North and South runways.

2009 INTERNATIONAL TERMINAL BUILDING EXPANSION: Completion of current expansion project providing an additional nine aircraft gates.

2009 CANADA LINE: Completion of rapid transit connection between the airport, downtown Vancouver and Richmond.

2010 AVIATION FUEL SUPPLY: Additional supply and storage capacity required to meet growing demand and restore operational reserve to the required four-day supply.

2010 SEA ISLAND ROAD SYSTEM: Reorganize the Sea Island road system to accommodate the Canada Line and proposed North-South Taxiway.

2010 – Ongoing ARTHUR LAING BRIDGE CONGESTION RELIEF (GROUND ACCESS, VANCOUVER): Once the Canada Line is in service, the Airport Authority’s transportation demand management program will build progressively to reduce the vehicle demand on Arthur Laing Bridge and other Sea Island bridges. A dedicated “YVR Access” lane could be introduced.

2014 NORTH-SOUTH TAXIWAY: This taxiway is required to enhance aircraft flow on the airfield, increase efficiency and reduce costs and aircraft emissions.

2015 NORTH EAST TERMINAL – PHASE I: Phase I of the proposed North East Terminal will include a new customs hall, provide 11 additional aircraft gates, a Canada Line station and an additional parkade if required.

2015 – 2020 AIRSIDE ENHANCEMENT PROGRAM: Once the North-South Taxiway is complete and both parallel runways are used for simultaneous takeoffs and landings, airside capacity will increase by approximately 12% and allow the Crosswind Runway to be closed.

2023 NORTH EAST TERMINAL – PHASE II: An additional 14 gates, providing a total of 87 jet gates at YVR, is expected to be required to meet demand.

2025 NEW RUNWAY: Medium-growth forecasts indicate that YVR may require an additional runway around 2025. The requirement will depend upon actual passenger growth and the size of aircraft in use. Also, it is assumed that non-essential air traffic will be moved to other airports to preserve YVR capacity. The runway options will be protected by implementing aeronautical zoning in the appropriate areas with the Minister of Transport’s approval of the 2027 Airport Land Use Plan.

2026 MIDDLE ARM (MORAY BRIDGE) CROSSING (GROUND ACCESS – RICHMOND): Increasing congestion on this YVR-Highway 99 link will have serious implications for commercial traffic. Along with transportation demand management, access between YVR and Highway 99 will need to be improved.
     
     
  #1273  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 3:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
I agree with you about how good it would be to have more direct flights from Vancouver (and Calgary, Edmonton, and so forth) to other parts of Canada (take Halifax, as an example) but in all fairness to Air Canada, there is yield management to be considered. I'll try explaining using a simplistic example: imagine you want to fly Vancouver to Halifax. A regularly scheduled daily nonstop to Halifax from Vancouver would be flying about half empty, as the two cities do not have the market size to fill up a plane. The air route, or any route like it, would have a low yield factor and would lose a lot of money. Otherwise stated, there aren't enough people in these cities to warrant a daily service. There is a lot of traffic to Toronto from Vancouver, with a number of nonstops per day, and enough traffic between Toronto and Halifax to warrant a couple of nonstops per day. Toronto is a bigger market with more people, and Halifax is to the east of it, so travellers bound for Halifax from Vancouver are obliged, for financial reasons to the airline, to change in Toronto. This, by the way, is not only a "Toronto" syndrome; parallel circumstances exist in the USA around major hubs like Chicago, Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. -> Therefore, the idea of of flights criss-crossing the country, avoiding Toronto (in addition to those whose destination really IS Toronto) is indeed a very attractive one, but would lower the load factor, and thus the yield factor, to the point where the airline would lose enormous revenues, sending prices up. This is the unpleasant reality of having that smug, arrogant, manipulative city on the lake as our largest air market, located where it is. It's a question of market size, location, and logistics - within Canada. But ..... overseas to Europe from Western Canada, (Vancouver being the major market with enough population to generate high enough traffic volume) ..... that's another story; one which, as I have mentioned here before, may change relatively soon thanks to the Open Skies agreement with the EU.
Right now, the Canadian government, (which promotes Air Canada, and caters to the large voting base in Southern Ontario and to Montreal) obliges someone flying, for example from Vancouver to Paris, or Vancouver to Rome, or to any other major European destination that, theoretically COULD provide a yield factor high enough to warrant nonstops between two given points, as above, to change in Toronto. This is a bit different. This is forced yield management, not yield management out of logistical and economic necessity.
(yes, I know many of you dislike my emoticons, but I use them to make a point).
In these cases, the federal government - UP UNTIL NOW - has had the right to dictate which foreign carriers can or cannot land where in Canada.
For example, the feds had arranged it with the French government that only TWO cities in Canada could be served by Air France (Toronto and Montreal, obvously) and the French in return said that Air Canada could fly nonstop between TWO cities in France, which are Paris and Nice. So we have Toronto-Paris, Toronto-Nice, and Montreal-Paris, and Montreal-Nice. Air France is not allowed to land at any other Canadian airports, although a run from Paris to Vancouver is large enough to justify itself, and would be even moreso, with a stopover in Calgary. But, to protect Air Canada, YYZ, and the voters of Central Canada, Vancouver travellers are obliged to transfer in Toronto or Montreal, or else to transfer in London Heathrow (which is the chaotic lost-luggage champion of the world; Amsterdam, or Frankfurt.) Transferring through Europe can mean you spend nearly five hours in Frankfurt (as I did), or just barely catch your plane if you run hard enough, by going through Amsterdam, even though polar routes are, theoretically much quicker - as long as they're nonstop. (Total flight time: about nine hours) However, the only alternative to that is going to Toronto (four hours), waiting for the Paris-bound flight, (which could be anywhere from 45 minutes on up - more like three hours), then onward to Paris (six hours). As you can see, THIS aspect of yield management means far more transit time for Western Canadian travellers (does Ottawa care? Three guesses,) and many more hours actually spent in the air (tally it up!!) than if Vancouver (Calgary and Edmonton, too, if worked in as stopovers from YVR) had the direct European connections to Paris, Zurich and Rome that took the polar route. But we don't. YET. The current worldwide recession will snarl things up a bit, but when air travel regains its footing, and the Open Skies agreement comes into effect, Toronto will lose its position as a "forced stopover" to Europe that it enjoys now . However, as for intra-Canadian routes go, you'll only see nonstops cirumventing Toronto (and Montreal) if/when there's a load factor - and resulting yield factor - high enough to warrant it. And this will only happen when the cities (and accomanying air markets) get big enough. So, your idea is very praiseworthy, and something a lot of travellers would like to see, but not yet very feasible at the domestic level. Overseas to Europe? Aha... That's another story. Watch and wait on that one as it unfolds. The results should be interesting.
I completely understand the notion that there may not be enough travellers between Vancouver and Halifax to warrant a direct route. I'm just giving a partial reasoning as to why the delay this Christmas was as bad as it was. Clearly, it's due to all the backlog of flights that had to leave Toronto or Montreal airports, whether they are international flights or national flights. I would say having direct routes from Paris to Vancouver or other major European cities would help the air traffic too. Seeing as how a lot of these international flights have to go through Toronto's airport, allocating those flights to other airports in Canada (Calgary and Vancouver, for example) would have helped Toronto airport's backlog of airplanes.

Furthermore, I find it ridiculous that while I was watching CTV during Christmas, they kept talking about Vancouver's airport screwing up and delaying flights. We all know those flights were delayed because Toronto's airport got screwed due to bad weather, yet, no coverage on Toronto's airport. It pretty much made it seem like Vancouver's airport is at fault even though that is not the complete truth.
     
     
  #1274  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phesto View Post
2015 NORTH EAST TERMINAL – PHASE I: Phase I of the proposed North East Terminal will include a new customs hall, provide 11 additional aircraft gates, a Canada Line station and an additional parkade if required.
Thanks - they must have posted the pdf after I posted in the forum.

BTW - one reason that YVR operates relatively efficiently (costwise) is that all international flights clear customs / security in one location. The introduction of a second customs hall will likely increase operating costs significantly. i.e. Pearson is very inefficient because of multiple customs / security checkpoints.
     
     
  #1275  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Thanks - they must have posted the pdf after I posted in the forum.

BTW - one reason that YVR operates relatively efficiently (costwise) is that all international flights clear customs / security in one location. The introduction of a second customs hall will likely increase operating costs significantly. i.e. Pearson is very inefficient because of multiple customs / security checkpoints.
True, although at peak periods, the customs hall at YVR can get rather chaotic.

Airports such as Singapore Changi seem to function efficiently with multiple customs halls. Actually, I think Pearson is just inefficient -- end of story...
     
     
  #1276  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 11:20 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Question "Second busiest airport on the West Coast" ... WHAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Long Term Plan has been released:



Couldn't find anything at the YVR site except this:

http://www.yvr.ca/yourairport2027/

Anyone else find anything?
- - Sorry, couln't find anything regarding this, but the very headline jumped out at me with "second-busiest airport on the West Coast..." How can that be the case? Los Angeles would no doubt be the busiest (it's one of the world's top ten), followed by San Francisco, then most likely Seattle; at least in passenger volume. Where this idea comes from that YVR is the second-busiest airport on the West Coast seems a myth to me.
     
     
  #1277  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post

- - Sorry, couln't find anything regarding this, but the very headline jumped out at me with "second-busiest airport on the West Coast..." How can that be the case? Los Angeles would no doubt be the busiest (it's one of the world's top ten), followed by San Francisco, then most likely Seattle; at least in passenger volume. Where this idea comes from that YVR is the second-busiest airport on the West Coast seems a myth to me.
They probably meant to say that it is the second busiest airport, on the west coast. Meaning that it is the second busiest in Canada, and is on the west coast.
     
     
  #1278  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post

- - Sorry, couln't find anything regarding this, but the very headline jumped out at me with "second-busiest airport on the West Coast..." How can that be the case? Los Angeles would no doubt be the busiest (it's one of the world's top ten), followed by San Francisco, then most likely Seattle; at least in passenger volume. Where this idea comes from that YVR is the second-busiest airport on the West Coast seems a myth to me.
The headline was from CKNW, a local radio station's website; they specialize in breaking news, so their headlines aren't always accurate. If you'd clicked the link to YVR's site, the first line says:

YVR is Canada's second-busiest airport
     
     
  #1279  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2009, 4:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
They probably meant to say that it is the second busiest airport, on the west coast. Meaning that it is the second busiest in Canada, and is on the west coast.
No, YVR is also the second busiest airport of the west cost of North America for international traffic -- after Los Angeles but ahead of San Francisco.
     
     
  #1280  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2009, 6:26 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Question Is there a fact-based consensus on this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourglass View Post
No, YVR is also the second busiest airport of the west cost of North America for international traffic -- after Los Angeles but ahead of San Francisco.
Excuse me, but are you sure about that? It's well known that as one of the world's top ten airports, LAX has has a vast destination roster, both across the Pacific, to Europe, and Latin America.

However, San Francisco too has flight destinations Vancouver does not have, both Transpacific and Translatlantic, again, with a number of foreign airlines flying there that well outnumbers Vancouver. (After all, the Bay Area itself has over 7 milion people).

Are we considering only Transpacific destinations?

I'm not contradicting you, I'm just wondering if Vancouver is as great a foreign gateway as it thinks it is. After all, there are only three year-round destinations to Europe. Perhaps the statistics warrant a deeper look.
     
     
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