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  #1261  
Old Posted May 20, 2022, 8:29 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I know Shell and Petro Canada are in the process of adding DCFC to a portion of their Lower Mainland stations. I'm curious what the others will do. Space can be an issue at some stations, but 50kW is one stall, so it should be easy to meet.
If hydro will service them at a reasonable cost. And even then, if they have the land available (more to it than just the dispenser).



Given potential cost, I bet gas stations will pay the fine until they are sold for redevelopment.



As for parking lots, where they aren't a temporary use that needs to be renewed (at risk of being shut down eventually if they don't comply eventually), the fine is so low that I don't know what they are thinking. Maybe it will speed up some installations that were going to happen anyways, but otherwise I think the policy analyst on this one vastly under estimated what the potential penalty needs to be to incentivize.
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  #1262  
Old Posted May 20, 2022, 8:40 PM
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Yeah, that's a dubious idea. For example the Chevron at Burrard and 3rd is what our urban gas stations should be: compact and taking up just one 33x120 city-sized lot. But it will be hard for them to squeeze in a charging station. So do they get forced out of business?
Or pay the $10k/year. That's probably a tiny portion of their operating expenses, let's be honest.

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Since the electricity is all ultimately being bought from a crown corporation, why doesn't BC Hydro have to provide public charging points?
They do have hundreds of them around BC.
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  #1263  
Old Posted May 20, 2022, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
As for parking lots, where they aren't a temporary use that needs to be renewed (at risk of being shut down eventually if they don't comply eventually), the fine is so low that I don't know what they are thinking. Maybe it will speed up some installations that were going to happen anyways, but otherwise I think the policy analyst on this one vastly under estimated what the potential penalty needs to be to incentivize.
Well they are treading the line between trying to incentivize and not be seen as excessively punitive.

These stations are around $50k to install. The City either watches the gas stations put them in, or builds one of their own for every $50k in fines collected.

The parking lots only need to provide a handful of L2 chargers to comply, at much less cost. Many already do.
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  #1264  
Old Posted May 20, 2022, 10:18 PM
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They do have hundreds of them around BC.
I think it might be a few more than that...
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  #1265  
Old Posted May 20, 2022, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Yeah, that's a dubious idea. For example the Chevron at Burrard and 3rd is what our urban gas stations should be: compact and taking up just one 33x120 city-sized lot. But it will be hard for them to squeeze in a charging station. So do they get forced out of business?
It's bigger than that. They have space for an air pump and a car cleaning vacuum, so there's space for a charger, if they don't want to pay the licence fee.
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  #1266  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 1:07 AM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
It's bigger than that. They have space for an air pump and a car cleaning vacuum, so there's space for a charger, if they don't want to pay the licence fee.
That’s how big the dispenser is. But a transformer, the ac/dc converter. The vault to tie into the grid.

Much easier to have four dispensers at one station than one each at four stations.
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  #1267  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 1:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
That’s how big the dispenser is. But a transformer, the ac/dc converter. The vault to tie into the grid.

Much easier to have four dispensers at one station than one each at four stations.
The City aren't expecting every gas station to install chargers. They employed a consultant to estimate potential takeup. There are 66 gas stations in the city, and 21 are likely to add chargers up to 2030. Of the 200 or so parking lots, 80 are expected to install chargers. The others will likely prefer to pay the higher licence fee. Revenue will be transferred to a reserve and used to fund initiatives like adding EV charging in rental buildings. The consultant suggests that by 2030 there could be an additional 21 DC fast chargers and 320 Level 2 chargers in gas stations and parking lots.
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  #1268  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 3:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
The consultant suggests that by 2030 there could be an additional 21 DC fast chargers and 320 Level 2 chargers in gas stations and parking lots.
It's worth pointing out that the 50kW requirement is the total power available, it can be provided in a single DC Fast Charging station or in several 7kW L2 charging stations.

L2 charging makes special sense downtown where people park their cars for the day while they work - it allows them to get a charge without having to come back in 30-60 minutes to move their vehicle from a fast charging stall. This works great for people who live in apartments or don't otherwise have access to home charging.
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  #1269  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 4:27 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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215.9 tonight
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  #1270  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I think it might be a few more than that...
Yeah I think we were referring to BC Hydro owned and operated L3 charging.
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  #1271  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 3:51 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
It's worth pointing out that the 50kW requirement is the total power available, it can be provided in a single DC Fast Charging station or in several 7kW L2 charging stations.

L2 charging makes special sense downtown where people park their cars for the day while they work - it allows them to get a charge without having to come back in 30-60 minutes to move their vehicle from a fast charging stall. This works great for people who live in apartments or don't otherwise have access to home charging.
For stations the problem is real estate. Do they want cars sitting overnight? Do car owners want cars sitting overnight outside of parking garages?

Anyways: I think it is a policy (on the gas station side) which won’t change behaviour yet will be continuously trumpeted as causing a shift simply by the existence of chargers—never comparing to whether the number of chargers simply follows the electric vehicle fleet number in comparable cities.

It is also misdiagnosing the problem imo. Is the problem people feeling range anxiety around the city, or is the problem having significant barriers to widespread adoption in multi family buildings?
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  #1272  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
Is the problem people feeling range anxiety around the city, or is the problem having significant barriers to widespread adoption in multi family buildings?
do people actually have range anxiety in the City? i don't have an EV, but i plan to get one as my next every-day-car in the next few years. but it seems like they have more than enough range for the city barring anything weird.

i know someone with an EV who is in a condo without access to charging. he says he wouldn't get an EV without the ability to home charge. its a major PITA he says.

its the right move to pre-wire for EV in all spots these days. if i were building a new house, i would pre-wire for any indoor garage spots + 1 extra outdoor spot should i have visitors park on my driveway.

i dont know how they could address the issue in condos/apartments. with the more-or-less rent freeze, i doubt apartment building owners would be enthused at the expensive they cant recover. and for condos, would the condo board want to pay for it for the low% of EV drivers? in the future with more owners i could see them voting to do it. but then that brings into the question do these older buildings have enough supply from BC Hydro for the new loads? if they don't, what would it cost to upgrade? does BC Hydro even have enough capacity in the neighbourhood if multiple buildings start expanding? and who covers that cost? idk.

these questions will start coming up more and more, though, as more people get EV's. personally, i am a firm believer that with more EV's getting cheaper, it could lead to a resurgence of SOV usage in Vancouver. the cost of ownership is fairly low, and add in the fact with the societal issues of vagrants everywhere. SOV ownership can look more apealing. of course, only time will tell though.
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  #1273  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
215.9 tonight
i got some at 215.9 at Shell using my BCAA it dropped to 212.9 on North Road friday eve, I went to Surrey and the Shell on 108th and most of the other gas stations I saw in Surrey were 224.9. Langley was around 214.9 at all stations. I guess Surrey never got the memo.
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  #1274  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 4:29 PM
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speaking of EV charging I never knew these existed but I saw a car using one at an outdoor plug at Guildford mall the other day.


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  #1275  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 5:23 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
i got some at 215.9 at Shell using my BCAA it dropped to 212.9 on North Road friday eve, I went to Surrey and the Shell on 108th and most of the other gas stations I saw in Surrey were 224.9. Langley was around 214.9 at all stations. I guess Surrey never got the memo.
I think the stations in certain areas just play chicken with each other. If someone else drops their prices then everyone else follows suit.
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  #1276  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
its the right move to pre-wire for EV in all spots these days. if i were building a new house, i would pre-wire for any indoor garage spots + 1 extra outdoor spot should i have visitors park on my driveway.

i dont know how they could address the issue in condos/apartments. with the more-or-less rent freeze, i doubt apartment building owners would be enthused at the expensive they cant recover. and for condos, would the condo board want to pay for it for the low% of EV drivers? in the future with more owners i could see them voting to do it. but then that brings into the question do these older buildings have enough supply from BC Hydro for the new loads? if they don't, what would it cost to upgrade? does BC Hydro even have enough capacity in the neighbourhood if multiple buildings start expanding? and who covers that cost? idk.
There's the problem. For someone living in a house, townhouse, etc that has it's own garage and electrical panel then adding in EV charging is pretty easy. Newer towers with a shared garage are being built to be EV ready so adding it in later is also pretty easy.

But adding EV charging to an older existing tower is an expensive headache. I just looked and my building was looking into it four years ago. Nothing has happened yet (gee thanks pandemic) but when it does it'll only be one or two stalls in guest parking.
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  #1277  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
speaking of EV charging I never knew these existed but I saw a car using one at an outdoor plug at Guildford mall the other day.


plugndrive.ca
I had someone from Duncan come up with one of those in the trunk and even though I offered the outlet in the garage they insisted on using the charging station at the university because 120v chargers are the EV equivalent to those little solar trickle chargers you placed on the dash of your car.
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  #1278  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 8:19 PM
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speaking of EV charging I never knew these existed but I saw a car using one at an outdoor plug at Guildford mall the other day.
ahh yeah, stealing electricity by EV owners is pretty common these days. i wish i could steal gas for my car easily to.
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  #1279  
Old Posted May 21, 2022, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I can't imagine what your premium gas guzzler costs to get out of your parkade.
I find gas prices mattering only to those caring to check how much gas is when filling up. I just visit whichever gas station is the nearest once a month to fill up on V-Power, price be whatever.

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My car is also worth about what I bought it for 4 years ago thanks to price increases, used car inflation, and demand for EVs.
Nice. I read that Tesla body panels are normally more straight after driving over potholes for few thousand kilometres and door seals stop leaking after only one hot summer of thermal expansion. :yes
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  #1280  
Old Posted May 22, 2022, 8:39 PM
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speaking of EV charging I never knew these existed but I saw a car using one at an outdoor plug at Guildford mall the other day.
Ah yes. Theft as a virtue signal.
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