Canucks Central

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

The mayor and police are being blamed only for failing to do what it was their job to do, what we pay them to do: to have an effective plan in place to either prevent or properly combat such criminal acts.

What part of that can't you get your head around?

You seem to be acting like a spoiled brat. A lot of that around town lately.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by agrant

these groups of thugs can simply move somewhere else and do damage.

What encourages a group of thugs to move and do damage in a second place is allowing them to do damage with impunity in the first place. When you allow criminal behaviour to go unchallenged, you do not appease the perpetrators; you embolden them.

Exhibit A: last night.

[phesto]

As I was watching the live footage of the riot last night, I was left scratching my head as to the VPD's strategy.

There were vast areas without police presence until it was far too late, so the idiots were left to loot and burn things with impunity. The fact that citizens were protecting buildings is unacceptable. By the time the riot squads were sweeping through, far too much damage and violence had already occurred.

I am in no way blaming the police, the blame lies solely with the idiots (personally I think the VPD have the most thankless jobs in Canada.) and I realize it is difficult to control a riot of this nature, but whatever 'plan' they had in place didn't seem effective.

[Prometheus]

So is anybody excited about another season and playoff run with Luongo?

We need to make a clean break, if possible. There is just too much baggage now. The Canucks don't exist to provide a player a personal vehicle for redemption. A player exists to get it done for the Canucks.

Trade Luongo, if we can; keep Scheider as our new starter and free up $9 million in cap space.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Can people stop blaming the police and the mayor for this? Give your god damn head a shake.

Robertson set up the scenario to enable this. A 2 year old could have told him that his "fan zones" would attract a large element bent on trouble. As to teh VPD, I'd be very curious to hear what their advice to the mayor was, and what their marching orders were.

Sure, the young drunken idiots were ultimately responsible, but they were aided and abetted by poor planning.

[agrant]

Originally Posted by phesto

As I was watching the live footage of the riot last night, I was left scratching my head as to the VPD's strategy.

There were vast areas without police presence until it was far too late, so the idiots were left to loot and burn things with impunity. The fact that citizens were protecting buildings is unacceptable. By the time the riot squads were sweeping through, far too much damage and violence had already occurred.

I am in no way blaming the police, the blame lies solely with the idiots (personally I think the VPD have the most thankless jobs in Canada.) and I realize it is difficult to control a riot of this nature, but whatever 'plan' they had in place didn't seem effective.

It looked like their strategy was to wait it out until people got bored, but that clearly backfired. Like I said, you can't win. Maybe we should have brought in the army before the game. I really do want to emphasise that our anger should be almost 100 percent towards the rioters.

[go_leafs_go02]

This sounds weird, but I have more of a respect for the true Canucks fans now than before Game 7. My heart goes out to all those disgusted real fans who had their heart broken with the loss yesterday and the following riots happening this morning.

After yesterday's buzz, this morning's drive-in was extremely sombre. I wasn't cheering for the Canucks but the fact the TEAM 1040 devoted 5 minutes to the game and the remainder to the riots really took a shot to my gut. And trust me, I have a better view for the real Canuck fans today than yesterday. You don't deserve this moniker, and trust me - those assholes are NOT real fans.

Congratulations on an exceptionally strong year, and even though I wasn't rooting for the Canucks in any-way, thanks for the fun buzz I got to experience over the past 2 months.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by agrant

It looked like their strategy was to wait it out until people got bored, but that clearly backfired. Like I said, you can't win.

But you are wrong. You can win. The lessons of 1994 and 2011 are clear. You do the thing that was not done in either 1994 or 2011. You arrest the relatively small number of instigators at the very earliest stages of unrest, snuffing out the situation before things get out of control. You maintain order before you lose it. The police were unable to this in 1994 because they had no idea that anything was going to happen and thus had no presence in place. In 2011, the police were supposedly ready but (for some ineffable reason) chose not to do this and just watched on the sidelines as an initial spark was allowed to grow into a wildfire.

[agrant]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

But you are wrong. You can win. The lessons of 1994 and 2011 are clear. You do the thing that was not done in either 1994 or 2011. You arrest the relatively small number of instigators at the very earliest stages of unrest, snuffing out the situation before things get out of control. You maintain order before you lose it.

Hindsight is always twenty-twenty. And its always easier said than done. You've got a mob of thousands.... The police make a move to arrest people, and guess what will happen?

[WarrenC12]

You can't be disappointed with going all the way to the finals and getting 3 wins. Looking over the series now though, Boston was clearly the better team. The Canucks were tired and beat up.

[Hourglass]

I dunno, this was the Canucks' best shot at a cup in a generation. I suppose if they keep the core together and upgrade they have a good shot at going deep next year. But Tim Thomas was the difference. Every time we made a mistake, we seemed to pay for it.

There was a story on the BBC stating how several policemen in riot gear were trying trying to hold the line against a crowd of a couple of thousand somewhere downtown. Don't know if this is true, but if so, that just doesn't cut it. To stop this sort of nonsense before it begins, a strong, visible and high-profile police presence is needed throughout.

I used to laugh at some of the demonstrations in places like Vienna because sometimes it seemed that the police would outnumber the protesters. But it seems to be an effective deterrent.

[aastra]

The police make a move to arrest people, and guess what will happen?

It would be crazy. Broken windows, overturned cars, fires, looting...

[Millennium2002]

Hearing reports of volunteers cleaning up the downtown core now. Anybody taking any photos? Would be nice if the nice side of Vancouver can show itself through all of the madness. =O

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Honestly, I believe that this is a sympton of a larger problem, our society has become far too soft, we have no punishment of consequence anymore, and our schools no longer teach civility / manners.

I would never say that is the problem. Sports has these kind of riots for quite a while and they become a cultural phenomenon. It's not a matter of softness or hardness, no lack of teaching of civility but that criticality has been met when it comes to people congregating and emotion.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Hearing reports of volunteers cleaning up the downtown core now. Anybody taking any photos? Would be nice if the nice side of Vancouver can show itself through all of the madness. =O

It was an entire movement on Facebook with over 12,000 supporters, wanting to clean up downtown.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I've got a great idea. Why don't we send Luongo down there to calm down the crowds.

Me and my friends had similar comments last night while hidding in their condo on Burrard waiting for the riot police line to pass so we could make it to Skytrain.

They should send Thomas down there; he stops everything.

They should send the Bruins down there; they know how to get things done.

Give the rioters what they want. Send in Luongo, they'll tear him apart and go home. Sacrifice him to save the city!

[Zassk]

There is reason to be optimistic about the next 2-3 seasons. The core of the team will still be together and will not (yet) be too old. That's as close to a dynasty as you get in the league these days. We can only hope that the team rebounds hungrier for next year's cup, like Crosby's Penguins did a few years ago.

There is no point in blowing up the core of the team. You would only do that if you think you can land superior players to replace them. Where will you get better players than Kesler or the Sedins? For that matter, how could the Canucks possibly land better 2nd tier players than the likes of Bieksa or Burrows? Any better replacements would be franchise players, and no team can afford so many of them.

Even the much reviled Luongo, who are you going to find that is superior? The only goalie better than Luongo this year was the one goalie who beat him in the finals. Guess what, that goalie isn't available. So again, who will you replace him with? If you get someone who's slightly worse, just to free up some money, does that enhance the Canucks' chances? I would say no.

That is why the team signed Luongo in the first place. He's not perfect, but it is basically impossible to acquire a goalie that's superior to him.

Now, who were the real disappointments? In my opinion:

1) Samuellson. Just not the same player as last year. I sure hope it was all attributable to the injury.
2) Malhotra. It was a big mistake to bring him back IMO. He was able to play, but contributed absolutely nothing. I am certain that Hodgson would have given the Canucks more production.
3) Raymond. His stock tanked this year, and I think it would be a mistake to give him another chance.
4) Edler. Another player that may have returned too soon. He was a monster earlier in the season, and the team needed that monster in the finals.

Finally, I approve of most coaching decisions this playoff, but I question Vigneault's handling of Ballard and Hodgson. Clearly Vigneault has an issue with them both, going right back to training camp. How could anyone expect them to play with confidence when they get treated in this manner. They need a fresh chance from the coach next year. Wipe the slate clean.

[racc]

The recommendations following the 94 riot included a no parking zone in downtown. That would have been a great idea. Why have 1500 kg presto logs, especially those with police written all over them, lying around for people to set fire to. It was the burning cars that seemed to be fuelling the whole mess.

As well, they should have removed throwable objects like newspaper boxes. There is a photo of a guy throwing one at a car. In fact, it would be nice to get rid of those ugly things altogether.

[Overground]

Me personally, I'm disgusted with this pathetic so called "world class city".

Having to dodge a 50 person rumble while walking back down Robson from watching a ridiculous sport that condones fighting to having a beer bottle thrown out a window from the Blue Horizon Hotel and almost landing on our heads to seeing innocent people with their heads covered in blood.

This city has a chronic problem that will never go away and it isn't fit to host anything. If it was up to me I'd....well you wouldn't want to know what I'd do to these uneducated twats. I like how Matthew Good explains things.....

While what unfolded that night disgraced the city, and revealed it to be far more a backwater fishing village that a world-class city, what is currently transpiring on the streets of Vancouver is set to do far more damage to the city's reputation. And that's the hard, cold, truth of it, no matter how cosmopolitan you believe this city to now be. If the Olympics succeeded in charming the pants off the world, that warm, fuzzy feeling has now been decimated.

I'm in no mood to start slicing pies. Whether you like it or not, what's happening right now will be viewed as a representation of the city as a whole – not merely a handful of people. And even then, it's not just a handful of people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jun/16/stanley-cup-riots-vancouver-canucks

[racc]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Hearing reports of volunteers cleaning up the downtown core now. Anybody taking any photos? Would be nice if the nice side of Vancouver can show itself through all of the madness. =O

The city crews, volunteers and store employees have done a great job. The streets have never looked cleaner. Hardly even a cigarette butt anywhere.