The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Hydrogen cars were trendy at the Paris Motor Show, including one very cool hypercar.

Hydrogen has issues...as displayed in the above graphic.

[WarrenC12]

H2 is DOA for cars. It might be something for ocean freighters though.

[urbandreamer]

^I hope the Hopium Machina enters production:
https://youtu.be/bqRpg_E9Hs0

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

H2 is DOA for cars. It might be something for ocean freighters though.

It may not have much uses in transportation but H2 will likely be very important for decarbonizing a lot of industrial processes. For example, the current leading contender idea for how to make net zero steel is to use H2 to make direct reduced iron, which can then be smelted into steel in an electric arc furnace powered by green energy. The electricity requirements would be enormous, but it could work with SMRs on site at the steel plant.

[SpongeG]

speaking of Hydrogen, Hyundai

• Video Link

[whatnext]

Nature reminding us that not even the most comprehensive hydro networks can necessarily guarantee electric power:

B.C. Hydro reducing power generation at Alouette Lake as drought conditions worsen
Water diversions from Alouette reservoir are currently prioritizing key salmon habitat
Michelle Ghoussoub · CBC News · Posted: Oct 20, 2022

As dry, unseasonably warm weather across B.C. persists well into October, the crystal blue water at Maple Ridge's Alouette Lake has retreated by at least 10 metres, leaving buoys sitting on dry land and would-be swimmers walking across bone-dry lakebed to access the shallows.

Alouette Lake is a popular summer and boating spot, located about an hour's drive east of Vancouver in Golden Ears Provincial Park. The lake is also a B.C. Hydro reservoir, where water is regularly diverted to generate power and to ensure water levels are sufficient to sustain nearby salmon populations in the Alouette River.

Zafar Adeel, executive director of the Pacific Water Research Centre and a professor at Simon Fraser University, said the drought conditions currently affecting much of the province are unlikely to result in an immediate energy shortage.

But he says they're indicative of a future where water shortages on B.C.'s coast could result in tangible threats to energy supply and animal habitats, and could make previously resilient landscapes more prone to flash flooding....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ions-1.6622083

[homebucket]

Good news. Hopefully this happens in North America too and we start to see more affordable EVs.

It would be nice to have an EV that just simply works without any gimmicks. Not everyone wants a $100k EV with self driving and 20 different touch screens.

Tesla cuts prices in China on concern over softening demand
Pras Subramanian
Mon, October 24, 2022 at 8:30 AM

In a reversal following a series of hikes his year, Tesla (TSLA) is now cutting prices in China.

The automaker cut prices across the board for its offerings in China, with the entry-level Model 3 sedan dropping by nearly 5% to 279,000 yuan, and the entry level Model Y SUV’s price coming down by 9% to 316,000 yuan.

The price cuts come as concern grows demand may be waning in China due to economic pressures. CEO Elon Musk said as much during last week’s earnings call, claiming “China is experiencing a recession of sorts,” mostly tied to a softening property market.

Tesla did hit an all-time sales high in September, with data from the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA) showing it sold 83,135 China-made EVs. However domestic automakers like BYD, which sold a record 200,973 cars last month, and others like Nio, Li Auto, and Xpeng are giving Tesla strong competition in China’s EV market, which is the largest in the world.

...

CMBI analyst Shi Ji warned Tesla's price cuts would lead to competitors following suit. "The price cuts underscore the possible price war which we have been emphasising since August," Ji said.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla...153018911.html

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

H2 is DOA for cars. It might be something for ocean freighters though.

Hydrogen is seen by many as the solution for trucking operations. No long waits to charge up big rigs.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Hydrogen is seen by many as the solution for trucking operations. No long waits to charge up big rigs.

Many who? Battery electric trucks are hitting the market while H2 is folding.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-evs-dominate

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Many who? Battery electric trucks are hitting the market while H2 is folding.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-evs-dominate

Ah yes, the UK, the model of industrial might and messed-up policies.

Meanwhile:

BMW boss says hydrogen, not electric, will be ‘hippest thing’ to drive
Oct. 24, 2022 at 6:00 am
By Hannah Elliott
Bloomberg
BMW is hanging in there with hydrogen. That’s what Oliver Zipse, the chairperson of BMW, reiterated during an interview last week in Goodwood, England.

“After the electric car, which has been going on for about 10 years and scaling up rapidly, the next trend will be hydrogen,” he says. “When it’s more scalable, hydrogen will be the hippest thing to drive.”

BMW has dabbled with the idea of using hydrogen for power for years, even though it is obscure and niche compared to the current enthusiasm surrounding vehicles powered by electricity. In 2005, BMW built 100 “Hydrogen 7” vehicles that used the fuel to power their V12 engines. It unveiled the fuel cell iX5 Hydrogen concept car at the International Motor Show Germany in 2021.

In August, the company started producing fuel-cell systems for a production version of its hydrogen-powered iX5 sport-utility vehicle. Zipse indicated it would be sold in the United States within the next five years, although in a follow-up phone call a spokesperson declined to confirm that point. Bloomberg previously reported that BMW will start delivering fewer than 100 of the iX5 hydrogen vehicles to select partners in Europe, the U.S., and Asia from the end of this year....

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...hing-to-drive/

[Truenorth00]

They can say a lot of things. But if nobody is building the infrastructure, there's no chance that hydrogen vision will catch on.

At this point, I see any consumer automaker singing praises about hydrogen as admitting they can't compete in the EV space. Gets them off my personal future EV list. Not interested in making a major purchase from a company that is half-assing it.

[urbandreamer]

A solar-powered electric car for $25k?
https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

A solar-powered electric car for $25k?
https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/

Looks interesting, but 29,900 Euros converts to around $40K Cdn.

Neat idea, though.

[hipster duck]

This is an interesting article, especially for trade policy wonks, about how the US Inflation Reduction Act contains a very unfair clause that subsidizes 100% of the EV battery production in the US, and undermines our competitiveness at being part of the EV battery value chain. It actually could lead to a 100% US-sourced EV receiving a $5,000 incentive in Canada!

The author concludes that he has some hopes that Francois-Phillippe Champagne is enough of a fighter to challenge this. Another interesting take is that, should the Republicans take back the senate in November, Lindsey Graham, of all people, might actually be in a position to contest this.

The ‘EV frenzy’ of battery manufacturing is passing Canada by

America’s Inflation Reduction Act may prove to be the ultimate road-block to the Canadian automotive industry

David Booth
Oct 21, 2022

BMW, as part of what Automotive News is calling an “EV frenzy” south of the border, yesterday unveiled plans to build a 30-gigawatt-hour EV battery manufacturing facility in Woodruff, South Carolina. It’s all part of a US$1.7-billion-dollar investment to build as many as 300,000 EVs a year in the United States. And, just last week, Audi said it was considering building its very first plant in the U.S., specifically to produce EVs. Mercedes-Benz, meanwhile, will be churning out 100,000 battery-powered vehicles as soon as next year in Vance, Alabama. More importantly, it too is building a battery-cell plant — using the same supplier, Envision AESC, as BMW, no less — to feed the roughly 300,000 EVs it hopes to build in the southern states.


...[Article continues at link posted above]

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

A solar-powered electric car for $25k?
https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/

Love the concept. Can only imagine what bodywork would cost after an accident.

[theman23]

Not sure if anyone has noticed this, but the last few months there’s been a glut of Model 3s enter the used car market. I was at the Nissan dealership in Richmond today and you could have mistaken it for a Tesla inventory lot. Prices seem to be approaching or below MSRP, depending on age and condition. Other EVs are still marked up like crazy though - saw a few Ioniq 5s selling used for 30k above msrp. Also saw a bunch of Model Ys with similar markup. Not sure if they’ll sell for that much anymore, since there doesn’t seem to be any shortage on the lots.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by theman23

Not sure if anyone has noticed this, but the last few months there’s been a glut of Model 3s enter the used car market. I was at the Nissan dealership in Richmond today and you could have mistaken it for a Tesla inventory lot. Prices seem to be approaching or below MSRP, depending on age and condition. Other EVs are still marked up like crazy though - saw a few Ioniq 5s selling used for 30k. Also saw a bunch of Model Ys with similar markup. Not sure if they’ll sell for that much anymore, since there doesn’t seem to be any shortage on the lots.

I'd be most curious to know what they are trading them in on? Presumably newer EVs?

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Architype

I'd be most curious to know what they are trading them in on? Presumably newer EVs?

The theories im reading are that people were buying these cars to flip for profit. Possibly even dealers themselves. Now that the used car market is softening, inventory is building up. Not many people wanting to buy a ho hum 80k car at 10% interest, let alone used.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by theman23

The theories im reading are that people were buying these cars to flip for profit. Possibly even dealers themselves. Now that the used car market is softening, inventory is building up. Not many people wanting to buy a ho hum 80k car at 10% interest, let alone used.

That's capitalism for you, aiming to rip you off. It's surprising to find them at a Nissan dealer; Nissan does make a couple of EVs, but has lost its formerly good reputation so I doubt they would be a good choice for a Tesla owner to trade on. As for built up inventory, I've heard the same here in Vanc. about used car lots being full of Mercedes.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by theman23

Not sure if anyone has noticed this, but the last few months there’s been a glut of Model 3s enter the used car market. I was at the Nissan dealership in Richmond today and you could have mistaken it for a Tesla inventory lot. Prices seem to be approaching or below MSRP, depending on age and condition. Other EVs are still marked up like crazy though - saw a few Ioniq5 selling used for 30k above msrp. Also saw a bunch of Model Ys with similar markup. Not sure if they’ll sell for that much anymore, since there doesn’t seem to be any shortage on the lots.

A lot of Doordash and Uber drivers will be happy.