Canadian Airport Thread II

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

With YYZ regaining BOM nonstop, AC have moved the 5th freedom flight to YYC. Reminds me of way back when, when the old AC866/867 in the 90s a couple of days a week would fly YOW-YMX-LHR-DEL.

Was a nice surprise they choose to add the tag to the YYC flight over the YVR one.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Was a nice surprise they choose to add the tag to the YYC flight over the YVR one.

I wonder Air India operating out of YVR played a role in the decision to have the YYC flight extended instead of the YVR flight.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Was a nice surprise they choose to add the tag to the YYC flight over the YVR one.

Was an easy decision given YVR-LHR is a 77W. That's a lot of plane to fill between thru pax and 5th freedomers.

Back in the 90s, YOW even had same-plane service to DEL a couple of times a week on the old AC865/866 routing. Back then 5th freedom tags on AC were commonplace. Routing was YOW-YMX-LHR-DEL. Other days of the week could see tags to NCE, LYS and DUS. NCE was the most common and longest lasting. The LHR stop on YYC-DEL is 2 1/2 hours, so it's as long as a typical connection, but with the benefit of the same seat for pax and luggage (in theory) should stay on board.

[thenoflyzone]

Interesting moves by AC.

Clearly they need to use all their LHR slots, and seems to me there could be a few reasons why they did this.

1. LHR-BOM was struggling, so they decided to go with LHR-DEL instead, in which case, marketing it as a direct from YYC is a smart move. Unserved market. (And one that can't be served non stop, due to YYC's altitude)

2. Now that WS is firmly established on YYC-LHR with daily flights year round, could be AC is feeling the pressure on YYC-LHR in winter, and the DEL through flight might help the cause.

3. No route was struggling, all was peachy, and they just wanted to add capacity to India.

All of this being said, YYZ-BOM is one heck of a long flight, in a gas guzzling 77L. Longer than YVR-SIN. Over 7,000nm with the detour around Russia/Ukraine, and this assuming they can fly over Iran. If they can't or won't, it will be even longer. Will be interesting to see if the benefits of YYC-LHR-DEL outweigh the negatives of YYZ-BOM non stop.

Quite the increase for AC to India, considering YUL-DEL is increasing to daily in winter as well.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Interesting moves by AC.

Clearly they need to use all their LHR slots, and seems to me there could be a few reasons why they did this.

1. LHR-BOM was struggling, so they decided to go with LHR-DEL instead, in which case, marketing it as a direct from YYC is a smart move. Unserved market. (And one that can't be served non stop, due to YYC's altitude)

2. Now that WS is firmly established on YYC-LHR with daily flights year round, could be AC is feeling the pressure on YYC-LHR in winter, and the DEL through flight might help the cause.

3. No route was struggling, all was peachy, and they just wanted to add capacity to India.

All of this being said, YYZ-BOM is one heck of a long flight, in a gas guzzling 77L. Longer than YVR-SIN. Over 7,000nm with the detour around Russia/Ukraine, and this assuming they can fly over Iran. If they can't or won't, it will be even longer. Will be interesting to see if the benefits of YYC-LHR-DEL outweigh the negatives of YYZ-BOM non stop.

Quite the increase for AC to India, considering YUL-DEL is increasing to daily in winter as well.

How will this be sold out of Calgary, as a direct?

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Interesting moves by AC.

Clearly they need to use all their LHR slots, and seems to me there could be a few reasons why they did this.

1. LHR-BOM was struggling, so they decided to go with LHR-DEL instead, in which case, marketing it as a direct from YYC is a smart move. Unserved market. (And one that can't be served non stop, due to YYC's altitude)

2. Now that WS is firmly established on YYC-LHR with daily flights year round, could be AC is feeling the pressure on YYC-LHR in winter, and the DEL through flight might help the cause.

3. No route was struggling, all was peachy, and they just wanted to add capacity to India.

All of this being said, YYZ-BOM is one heck of a long flight, in a gas guzzling 77L. Longer than YVR-SIN. Over 7,000nm with the detour around Russia/Ukraine, and this assuming they can fly over Iran. If they can't or won't, it will be even longer. Will be interesting to see if the benefits of YYC-LHR-DEL outweigh the negatives of YYZ-BOM non stop.

Quite the increase for AC to India, considering YUL-DEL is increasing to daily in winter as well.

Perhaps there is a 4th reason.

4. KLM's entrenchment in Alberta and even Western Canada perhaps? KL is well positioned in YYC and YVR and is increasing flights from YEG to 5x weekly in the winter. Perhaps they along with WS are biting into AC.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Perhaps there is a 4th reason.

4. KLM's entrenchment in Alberta and even Western Canada perhaps? KL is well positioned in YYC and YVR and is increasing flights from YEG to 5x weekly in the winter. Perhaps they along with WS are biting into AC.

Air Canada is increasing its seats to India close to 40% this winter. They just sell every seat they put into that country - that is the main reason they are doing this.

India demand is massive.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Air Canada is increasing its seats to India close to 40% this winter. They just sell every seat they put into that country - that is the main reason they are doing this.

India demand is massive.

And with 100s of thousand new arrivals from the country most of whom are not yet citizens so will want avoid France, US or German transit where they need visas AC will have some pricing power too.

[whatnext]

AC pilots labour negotation developments:

Air Canada pilots union to seek conciliator, says parties are far apart in talks
Ian Bickis, The Canadian Press

Air Canada pilots intend to request help from a federal conciliator to assist in stalled contract negotiations with the airline, the union representing them announced Sunday.

The Air Line Pilots Association, representing more than 5,000 Air Canada pilots, said the two sides are not close to a deal despite a year of contract talks, including close to six months of voluntary mediation.

"Unfortunately, Air Canada continues to undervalue your contributions to the success of this airline," said Charlene Hudy, head of the union's Air Canada contingent, in a video message to members.

She said that while talks have allowed the two sides to reach important agreements, they remain too far apart in negotiations and so pilots will be leaving the voluntary process on June 15.

The union says it will file a notice of dispute to inform the federal Minister of Labour that they've attempted, but failed, to reach a collective agreement, and to request the minister assign a conciliator.

Air Canada said in a statement that the airline remains committed to achieving a fair, negotiated agreement.

"Air Canada has worked hard and in good faith to reach a new collective agreement with ALPA under the bargaining protocol and the talks conducted under the bargaining protocol led to significant progress," it said.

The airline said it will continue to push for an agreement in the coming months under the normal bargaining process, insisting customers can continue to book and travel with confidence on Air Canada.

Canadian pilots have been seeking gains that will bring them closer to deals won by their counterparts in the U.S.

Between March and September last year, pilots at Delta Air Lines, United Airlines and American Airlines secured agreements that included four-year pay hikes ranging from 34 per cent to 40 per cent...

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/air-cana...alks-1.2080332

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Perhaps there is a 4th reason.

4. KLM's entrenchment in Alberta and even Western Canada perhaps? KL is well positioned in YYC and YVR and is increasing flights from YEG to 5x weekly in the winter. Perhaps they along with WS are biting into AC.

The press release says it well. They are clearly targeting all of "western Canada" with this flight. They made sure to mention YVR originating passengers can connect on this LHR-DEL flight as well.

AC can't serve YVR-DEL at the moment, as it's a massively long route. Over 7,800nm with the detour around Russia/Ukraine. So this is a way for them to plug that hole.

YYZ-BOM, on the other hand, can be flown non stop. Around 7030nm if they can fly over Iran, and if they can't its around 7260nm. So still doable.

The 77L was made for routes like these. It can carry max payload on routes well beyond 7,000nm. The 789 can't do that.

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

How will this be sold out of Calgary, as a direct?

Same plane, same flight number. So it's a direct flight. But you have a 2h40 layover in LHR eastbound, and 2h05 westbound. Pretty sure everyone gets off the plane in LHR. So the process is the same as taking two separate flights. It doesn't add capacity to YYC per se (in terms of aircraft movements or passenger numbers), but technically, for YYC airport authority, it's another destination served.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

How will this be sold out of Calgary, as a direct?

While the LHR stop is as long as a connection where pax will have to deplane, but without the hassle of changing gates, changing seats, removing carry-ons and ground crew don't need to offload thru luggage. Since it'll be the same flight #, it'll show up at the top of GDS searches giving AC an advantage.

[Dominion301]

WS are continuing to expand at YEG this winter: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...863473638.html

Of note, YUL increases to 5x weekly from the planned 4x and YOW increases to 11x weekly from the planned daily. WS has never flown YOW-YEG more than daily in summer, let alone winter. Guess the extra 3 leased MAX frames coming in + the 5 Lynx tails allows them to add this capacity.

[Dominion301]

EDIT: wrong thread.

[hollywoodcory]

Busy week for route announcements at YYC it seems.

4Y is planning MUC-YYC in S25 up to 5x weekly:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240604-4yns25muc

This will likely replace some of the FRA frequencies (perhaps dropping that back to just daily).

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Busy week for route announcements at YYC it seems.

4Y is planning MUC-YYC in S25 up to 5x weekly:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240604-4yns25muc

This will likely replace some of the FRA frequencies (perhaps dropping that back to just daily).

Yes & another new seasonal Europe route for Munich MUC -Calgary YYC is great .

YYC international passenger traffic will remain strong.

[craner]

Holy crap Westjet

http://https://onemileatatime.com/news/westjet-ultrabasic-fares/

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Yes & another new seasonal Europe route for Munich MUC -Calgary YYC is great .

YYC international passenger traffic will remain strong.

Surprisingly MUC-YYC will be year round too!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by craner

Holy crap Westjet

http://https://onemileatatime.com/news/westjet-ultrabasic-fares/

Thank you for reminding me why I avoid Westjet.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Thank you for reminding me why I avoid Westjet.

Why is this a problem? You’re not forced to buy the fare category. Seems like most WS flights with this option are much cheaper. Gives people an option to fly more affordably. We don’t seem to be able to hold on to so called low cost airlines. Plus Westjet has way more frequencies than Flair.

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

ADM is looking for ways to waste their time instead of making sure things aren't complete CHAOS this summer at YUL. I just cannot wait to see the lineups. At its peak, it was about an hour lineup by car. Have to think it will be even more this year.

Little update as I was driving on highway 20, towards downtown the other day. Sunday, around 4PM.
As I drove by the airport, surely enough I saw a lineup of cars forming before they even had reached the exit for YUL (westward). It's only early June so I do feel bad for people traveling July/August.