Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[jlousa]

I think we can also agree that a coffee shop needs parking less then a furniture store/electronics store would. There are obvious lots of shades of grey to be considered.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I think we can also agree that a coffee shop needs parking less then a furniture store/electronics store would. There are obvious lots of shades of grey to be considered.

Heh. I don't know if there will be any agreement on this, but, of course, you're right.

[twoNeurons]

It's also on Commercial Drive. 'nuff said.

(Nice to see, mind you)

[racc]

A quick reminder of the Hornby Bike Lane Info Session today

Wednesday, September 8 from 11 am to 7 pm.
Pacific Centre rotunda (701 West Georgia Street)

[IanS]

Originally Posted by racc

A quick reminder of the Hornby Bike Lane Info Session today

Wednesday, September 8 from 11 am to 7 pm.
Pacific Centre rotunda (701 West Georgia Street)

Thanks for the reminder. I'll try to pop down over lunch to take a look.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I think we can also agree that a coffee shop needs parking less then a furniture store/electronics store would. There are obvious lots of shades of grey to be considered.

That's obvious, and that's why it's done at the request of the business.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I think we can also agree that a coffee shop needs parking less then a furniture store/electronics store would. There are obvious lots of shades of grey to be considered.

Actually the electronic/furniture store doesn't need a parking stall. It does need a loading / unloading zone. Which are two completely different things.

If we are talking about people picking up their purchases.

[WarrenC12]

A smart downtown business selling furniture, large electronics, etc. might invest in a value added, low margin delivery/install service. People can shop in whatever they want to show up in: bikes, cars, transit, etc. and still get what they want. I have a car, but it can hardly fit any appliance or piece of furniture, so....

Maybe I'm just crazy...

[IanS]

Originally Posted by racc

A quick reminder of the Hornby Bike Lane Info Session today

Wednesday, September 8 from 11 am to 7 pm.
Pacific Centre rotunda (701 West Georgia Street)

I went and took a look. Interesting presentation. I would encourage anyone interested in the issue to go fill out a comment form. Some thoughts:

1. Not surprisingly, the comments are directed at only secondary issues. It's pretty clear that all of the real decisions have been made. Questions were directed at things such as "do you support removing parking to allow for access or loading zones" and the like. I assume that the City will use the results of those questions to justify either taking away parking or removing loading zones etc.

2. Most of the design north of Davie Street looks pretty good, IMO.

3. IMO, the real problems are south of Davie, where it looks like there will only be one lane available on Hornby.

4. I hadn't appreciated this from the version of the concept drawings I had seen earlier, but they are apparently planning to put a separated bike lane on the west side of Burrard, one black north of the Bridge. One point of concern is the plan to ban right turns off Burrard onto Pacific. Given that they have already banned right turns off Thurlow onto Pacific, this basically leaves Denman as the only viable way of heading into that area of the West End. Anyone who has driven on Denman will know how that will go.

I spoke with someone about that point at the presentation, but he was unable to tell me anything about it.

5. They are also planning to ban right turns off Drake onto Burrard. I indicated a lack of agreement with that in my comments, as this forces people from that area to go down either Davie or Pacific, both of which can be backed up around there. Not sure why Drake is being restricted, as there is a crossing light at that intersection.

As indicated, there is nothing on the comment sheet which really allows for any objection to the lane, if that is your position. There is a question as to whether you support the lane, but, coming at the end of the comments sheet, I suspect that will go more to the weight given to comments than anything else.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by IanS

I went and took a look. Interesting presentation. I would encourage anyone interested in the issue to go fill out a comment form. Some thoughts:

1. Not surprisingly, the comments are directed at only secondary issues. It's pretty clear that all of the real decisions have been made. Questions were directed at things such as "do you support removing parking to allow for access or loading zones" and the like. I assume that the City will use the results of those questions to justify either taking away parking or removing loading zones etc.

2. Most of the design north of Davie Street looks pretty good, IMO.

3. IMO, the real problems are south of Davie, where it looks like there will only be one lane available on Hornby.

4. I hadn't appreciated this from the version of the concept drawings I had seen earlier, but they are apparently planning to put a separated bike lane on the west side of Burrard, one black north of the Bridge. One point of concern is the plan to ban right turns off Burrard onto Pacific. Given that they have already banned right turns off Thurlow onto Pacific, this basically leaves Denman as the only viable way of heading into that area of the West End. Anyone who has driven on Denman will know how that will go.

I spoke with someone about that point at the presentation, but he was unable to tell me anything about it.

5. They are also planning to ban right turns off Drake onto Burrard. I indicated a lack of agreement with that in my comments, as this forces people from that area to go down either Davie or Pacific, both of which can be backed up around there. Not sure why Drake is being restricted, as there is a crossing light at that intersection.

As indicated, there is nothing on the comment sheet which really allows for any objection to the lane, if that is your position. There is a question as to whether you support the lane, but, coming at the end of the comments sheet, I suspect that will go more to the weight given to comments than anything else.

So the bike lane uses Drake Street to connect Hornby with the Burrard Street for Southbound cyclists I imagine? Northbound cyclists off the bridge use Pacific to connect with Hornby? So right turns ban at Burrard and Pacific makes sense. Why are right turns not allowed at Thurlow and Pacific? For southbound traffic? That doesn't make too much sense to me.

For right turns from Drake this would be Drake EB to Burrard SB? I could see that you would not allow right turns there as you now have a vehicle blocking the entrance to the bike path waiting to make a right turn onto Burrard. The vehicle would move up and wait in front of the entrance of the bike path. If there was a proper signalized intersection you could allow right turns on green only.

[madmigs]

FYI:

City done with separated bike lanes for now, says Vancouver's transportation chief - http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...ortation-chief

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Drivers who hate separated bike lanes will be happy to hear there are no more on the city of Vancouver's radar, at least for now. The city says Hornby Street lane connecting Dunsmuir and the Burrard Bridge should be the last one.

Trips into downtown using bikes are up nearly two fold. Transit use and walking are also way up, and driving trips are down at least 10 per cent, but Director of Transportation Jerry Dobrovolny says Council's plan has been very specific. The Dunsmuir lane was phase one, Hornby Street is phase two, but Dobrovolny says that's it. A greenway is being worked on in the downtown core, but doesn't involve drastic separation.

The city says there's been huge growth in jobs and population downtown in the last 15 years. There's no more room for cars, so Dobrovolny says we need to open up road capacity for other users. He says the city is not trying to squeeze cars out of downtown, but wants to encourage walking, cycling, and transit use by eliminating barriers created by heavy traffic.

[madmigs]

Hey guys - there is also an open dialogue about the Hornby Bike Lane on the CoV's site here: http://dialogue.vancouver.ca/blogs/1...r-input?page=6

I read through a bunch of them and it seems about 50/50, or maybe 60/40 split in support of the lane.

[IanS]

Anyone know the basis this statement (from the News1130 report, quoted above):

"Trips into downtown using bikes are up nearly two fold. Transit use and walking are also way up, and driving trips are down at least 10 per cent"

AFAIK, even in their most optimistic "estimate", the City has never claimed a two fold increase in cycle use. I wonder where that figure came from.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

So the bike lane uses Drake Street to connect Hornby with the Burrard Street for Southbound cyclists I imagine? Northbound cyclists off the bridge use Pacific to connect with Hornby? So right turns ban at Burrard and Pacific makes sense. Why are right turns not allowed at Thurlow and Pacific? For southbound traffic? That doesn't make too much sense to me.

Me neither. It seems to me that there should be some reasonable way to head west onto Pacific. By restricting right turns on both streets they either divert traffic through alleys and side streets or force it to go down Denman, which is a morass.

For right turns from Drake this would be Drake EB to Burrard SB? I could see that you would not allow right turns there as you now have a vehicle blocking the entrance to the bike path waiting to make a right turn onto Burrard. The vehicle would move up and wait in front of the entrance of the bike path. If there was a proper signalized intersection you could allow right turns on green only.

Drake WB to Burrard SB. I can see why they would block it, to keep the bike lane free , though, again, this will force drivers wanting to head north on Burrard to take Davie or Pacific. I can see this being a potential problem (if one considers traffic congestion to be a problem), as Hornby going north is also being choked off by the bike lane. I suppose Homer might be a possibility?

[racc]

Originally Posted by IanS

Anyone know the basis this statement (from the News1130 report, quoted above):

"Trips into downtown using bikes are up nearly two fold. Transit use and walking are also way up, and driving trips are down at least 10 per cent"

AFAIK, even in their most optimistic "estimate", the City has never claimed a two fold increase in cycle use. I wonder where that figure came from.

Here is the presentation from the city that they probably got that from. It also has other interesting info.

[racc]

Originally Posted by IanS

Me neither. It seems to me that there should be some reasonable way to head west onto Pacific. By restricting right turns on both streets they either divert traffic through alleys and side streets or force it to go down Denman, which is a morass.

Seems like allowing rights from Thurlow SB to Pacific and banning rights from Burrard SB to Pacific would be a good solution. I rarely see any cars making Burrard SB to Pacific right turn anyway. Definitely less than one per signal cycle. In addition to improving the safety of cyclists and peds, this will also ensure that buses and cars don 't get stuck behind these right turners.

I had no idea that Thurlow NB to Pacific was banned.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by IanS

Anyone know the basis this statement (from the News1130 report, quoted above):

"Trips into downtown using bikes are up nearly two fold. Transit use and walking are also way up, and driving trips are down at least 10 per cent"

AFAIK, even in their most optimistic "estimate", the City has never claimed a two fold increase in cycle use. I wonder where that figure came from.

Yeah, I'm curious about that. Are they claiming they measured bike trips on every possible route into downtown Vancouver before these "trials" started, and now cycling is up two fold? What's the time period involved?

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yeah, I'm curious about that. Are they claiming they measured bike trips on every possible route into downtown Vancouver before these "trials" started, and now cycling is up two fold? What's the time period involved?

Yes but in the article you see in the next paragraph that 15 years is mentioned.

The city says there's been huge growth in jobs and population downtown in the last 15 years

Maybe that is the time frame, but I doubt there were even 1/2 as many cyclists back then due to population differences, no m-line(Broadway/Commercial or VCC-Clark are short trips to downtown now with the CVG), not even a 99 B-Line(i believe it was started in fall of 97 for my second year at UBC), and no bike racks on buses.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by racc

Here is the presentation from the city that they probably got that from. It also has other interesting info.

umm I think you forgot the link to the presentation

[racc]

Originally Posted by madmigs

umm I think you forgot the link to the presentation

My apologizes. Here it is.
http://vancouver.ca/mediaroom/news/p...tation2010.pdf