The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[scryer]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The problem is we are trying to make a modern transit system work on an almost 300 year old road system.

I am quite sure that there are cities much older that have much more effective rapid transit systems. So don't fret. There is a way.

[isaidso]

I just won't take transit in Halifax. I'd only consider it when/if they build underground LRT. At grade there's just not enough space for all the traffic.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by someone123

Commuter rail would also go to the same station as VIA.

Halifax's current bus system has too many routes and no focus on high frequency service along main corridors. It's hard for visitors to use, and in most cases the planning is haphazard so it's hard to coordinate land use planning with transit (the current strategy is to build lots of housing as centrally as possible and hope for the best). I've posted this before:



I think the 1 is the busiest and most frequent route. It goes from the West End to Dartmouth but there is a huge detour through the South End and downtown in the middle. It's not useful for any long distance trip in particular; it's a Frankenstein type route that happens to appeal to a variety of different riders that take it for shorter trips. Many other routes are odd attempts to blend coverage of some suburban area with some part of the urban core.

GTA systems combine multiple routes into branches like TTC 52A/52B/52D/52F/52G or GO 47/47A/47B/47C/47D/47E/47F/47H. Maybe Metro Transit could do the same. 59 and 61 would become 59A and 59B, 63 would become 60A, 81 would become 80A, and so on, which would simply the map a bit. Yes, it looks like the system could also be a little more streamlined, but complexity and redundancy is probably not avoidable if you want to have system that serves a lot people. And unlike TTC and GO, Metro Transit does serve everyone. Even with their branch route number schemes, the TTC map would look more confusing too if it included all of the GO buses.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Doady

GTA systems combine multiple routes into branches like TTC 52A/52B/52D/52F/52G or GO 47/47A/47B/47C/47D/47E/47F/47H. Maybe Metro Transit could do the same. 59 and 61 would become 59A and 59B, 63 would become 60A, 81 would become 80A, and so on, which would simply the map a bit. Yes, it looks like the system could also be a little more streamlined, but complexity and redundancy is probably not avoidable if you want to have system that serves a lot people. And unlike TTC and GO, Metro Transit does serve everyone. Even with their branch route number schemes, the TTC map would look more confusing too if it included all of the GO buses.

Speaking of Go Transit, Route 21 between Milton/Mississauga and Union Station has the most branches: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GO_Transit_bus_services

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Doady

GTA systems combine multiple routes into branches like TTC 52A/52B/52D/52F/52G or GO 47/47A/47B/47C/47D/47E/47F/47H. Maybe Metro Transit could do the same. 59 and 61 would become 59A and 59B, 63 would become 60A, 81 would become 80A, and so on, which would simply the map a bit. Yes, it looks like the system could also be a little more streamlined, but complexity and redundancy is probably not avoidable if you want to have system that serves a lot people. And unlike TTC and GO, Metro Transit does serve everyone. Even with their branch route number schemes, the TTC map would look more confusing too if it included all of the GO buses.

The big difference is that Toronto has the subway and to a lesser extent GO trains to serve as backbones for the system and a simple way to get around that doesn't require careful study of routes and timetables. If you live in a neighbourhood of Toronto that isn't on the subway you figure out your local bus routes. If not you will probably just rely on the subway.

(Toronto also has a grid of well-connected major streets while Halifax does not.)

Halifax is too small for a subway system to be a good investment but it is also too big and busy for small community bus routes in mixed traffic to work well on their own, or for visitors to get around the main areas just by walking (which is a detriment to areas like the North End).

If Halifax had a couple of simple routes on the peninsula that had permanent infrastructure and ran every 10 minutes or so the difference would be huge. It would be attractive to live near the route, transfers would work better, and casual users like tourists wouldn't be scared away so much.

[Reecemartin]

Just did an updated flyover analysis video of the Stouffville Line (GO Transit), which is getting lots of upgrades for its stations and will be getting all-day two-way service soon. Would love to hear opinions about it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExomJwT81Po

[Dengler Avenue]

My friend who lives near Agincourt Go says the Go fare’s too expensive for him. It’ll be nice if the fare comes down, which will in turn relieve the Bloor-Danforth Line.

[J.OT13]

In news that will surprise no one, after providing the Communications Based Train Control (CBTC) system for Stage 1 of the Confederation Line, Thales has been contracted to provide the CBTC for Stage 2 Confederation as well.

Note that the current issues with the Confederation are mostly train related (defective brake cylinders, issues with doors and power outages...) and unrelated to the CBTC system as far as we have been told.

THALES SIGNALLING TECHNOLOGY SELECTED FOR MAJOR LRT LINE EXPANSION IN CANADA’S NATIONAL CAPITAL

06/13/2019

Canada’s National Capital relies on Thales signalling once again for its major LRT Line expansion. Thales has been contracted by East-West Connectors to provide its SelTrac™ Communications Based Train Control (CBTC) system for the City of Ottawa’s Stage 2 O-Train Confederation Line Extension project.

The Stage 2 Confederation Line extension will expand the initial 13 station Stage 1 Confederation Line farther east and west. The Stage 2 Confederation Line will extend east to Trim Road and west to Baseline Road and Moodie Drive, adding 28 kilometres of rail, 16 stations and a maintenance and storage facility. Following completion of the Stage 2 extension, the Confederation Line will consist of 29 stations spanning a distance of 40 kilometres providing more Ottawa residents with fast, efficient, clean and reliable light rail service.

Thales’s SelTrac™ Communications Based Train Control system is an integral part of the O-Train’s Stage 1 transportation solution, which is designed to meet Ottawa’s transit challenges with a system that integrates surrounding communities with existing cycling and pedestrian paths and roadways. Because Thales is familiar with the O-Train system, its operation and technology, and in particular the Light Rail Vehicles being used, Thales’s involvement in the Stage 2 Confederation Line extension minimizes integration risks and commissioning time.

"The Stage 2 O-Train Confederation Line Extension project allows Thales to continue to play an important role in providing a world-class transit system to Canada’s national capital. Continuing our work from Stage 1, our local, made-in-Ontario SelTrac™ CBTC technology is a key part of the O-Train system, bringing to life the next important phase of Ottawa’s long-term transit vision, providing passengers a faster, safer and greener way to commute.”– Dominique Gaiardo, Vice President and Managing Director for Thales’s urban rail signalling business.

Thales’s contribution to the Stage 2 O-Train Confederation Line Extension project consists of integrating control units on-board each train, the installation of guideway equipment, including zone controllers, as well as commissioning the system to be safely integrated within Stage 1 operations.

Thales is proud to bring proven expertise and decades of transit infrastructure experience to a project that will provide the transportation foundation for Ottawa’s growth and evolution through the twenty-first century.

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/canada/pr...elected-major-lrt-line-expansion-canadas

[Doady]

Originally Posted by someone123

The big difference is that Toronto has the subway and to a lesser extent GO trains to serve as backbones for the system and a simple way to get around that doesn't require careful study of routes and timetables. If you live in a neighbourhood of Toronto that isn't on the subway you figure out your local bus routes. If not you will probably just rely on the subway.

(Toronto also has a grid of well-connected major streets while Halifax does not.)

Halifax is too small for a subway system to be a good investment but it is also too big and busy for small community bus routes in mixed traffic to work well on their own, or for visitors to get around the main areas just by walking (which is a detriment to areas like the North End).

If Halifax had a couple of simple routes on the peninsula that had permanent infrastructure and ran every 10 minutes or so the difference would be huge. It would be attractive to live near the route, transfers would work better, and casual users like tourists wouldn't be scared away so much.

Peninsula is like 6km from north to south? 90,000 people? Winnipeg and Mississauga are much bigger than Halifax and they didn't build BRT until a few years ago. Halifax doesn't even have any all-day, everyday, two-way limited stop bus routes yet. One step at a time.

1 is every 10 minutes. 2, 4, 7, 9 is every 15 minutes. That level of service is comparable to other similar sized cities like Victoria and London.

I tried to find schedule for 6 as well but apparently it together with 20 has been replaced by route 9. Realigned 4 also replaced 18 and 35. So apparently some streamlining has already been done.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

My friend who lives near Agincourt Go says the Go fare’s too expensive for him. It’ll be nice if the fare comes down, which will in turn relieve the Bloor-Danforth Line.

I find the fares have come down. Someone commuting in Toronto one or two stops to the core is still subsidizing the prices for long haul 905 routes. That just seems ass backwards; an indirect sprawl promoting vehicle. I live in the former city boundaries and by, TTC, it takes me usually as long to get downtown as someone taking the GO from Oakville. Ridership in the Toronto area shouldn't be remotely as low as it is.

[Doady]

I would be okay with GO fares in Toronto coming down if the City of Toronto didn't ban 905 buses from operating in the city. Toronto spends money on a bus route along Burhamthorpe that duplicates Mississauga's service exactly while those Mississauga buses are prohibited from picking up passengers on the way to Islington. Now THAT is ass backwards.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Doady

Peninsula is like 6km from north to south? 90,000 people? Winnipeg and Mississauga are much bigger than Halifax and they didn't build BRT until a few years ago. Halifax doesn't even have any all-day, everyday, two-way limited stop bus routes yet. One step at a time.

1 is every 10 minutes. 2, 4, 7, 9 is every 15 minutes. That level of service is comparable to other similar sized cities like Victoria and London.

Every city is different. Halifax is built very differently from Winnipeg or Mississauga. It is to the point where adding more regular buses will not improve service levels in the busiest areas. The biggest reason for this is that the older parts of the city have little in the way of high capacity arterial roads and the geography is more complicated than most other cities (there are lots of bottlenecks and road expansion requires blasting or bridges, making something like BRT look cheap in comparison). Consequently higher density modes of transport will become the best option much sooner than in places with grids of 6 lane roads.

This is why Halifax is already looking at commuter rail, BRT, and more ferries.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Doady

I would be okay with GO fares in Toronto coming down if the City of Toronto didn't ban 905 buses from operating in the city. Toronto spends money on a bus route along Burhamthorpe that duplicates Mississauga's service exactly while those Mississauga buses are prohibited from picking up passengers on the way to Islington. Now THAT is ass backwards.

How is that ass backwards or comparable to the GO's fare structure?

The TTC has lease agreements to operate in other jurisdictions. They are effectively Mississauga Transit vehicles in Mississauga collecting fares for Mississauga. The TTC has always had enough buses to operate all its route so there is absolutely no need to get help from other agencies within Toronto.

I cannot speak for Burnhamthorpe or any Mississauga routes. The TTC routes that go north into York Region are a huge benefit for York Region and not the other way around.

[FrAnKs]

Here are a couple of pictures of the future 3.3 Billion Tramway/Trambus network of Québec City.
Source : https://twitter.com/@p_abolduc








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[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by someone123

Every city is different. Halifax is built very differently from Winnipeg or Mississauga. It is to the point where adding more regular buses will not improve service levels in the busiest areas. The biggest reason for this is that the older parts of the city have little in the way of high capacity arterial roads and the geography is more complicated than most other cities (there are lots of bottlenecks and road expansion requires blasting or bridges, making something like BRT look cheap in comparison). Consequently higher density modes of transport will become the best option much sooner than in places with grids of 6 lane roads.

This is why Halifax is already looking at commuter rail, BRT, and more ferries.

When I was living in Halifax, I would look at the major arterial roads that were 2 and 3 lane wide, and think, "If this was Toronto, this would be a 4 lane road. Those houses would all be bought up and demolished." It is not Toronto, even though it is only about 50 years older.

A commuter rail using all existing rail and some of the abandoned routes would really serve the area well. Building tunneled transit routes on the peninsula would really go a long way.

Part of the reason that commuting is a pain is the Naval base employs over 10,000 people. Most live off base.

Overall, for a city of that population, it has a great transit service.

[p_xavier]

I'm still surprised to see the CAQ as the most transit friendly government that QC has ever had. With financing of the Gatineau and Québec streetcars, plus many other Montréal projects, things are looking positive.

[Acajack]

The tramway project for Quebec City just cleared another legislative hurdle.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I'm still surprised to see the CAQ as the most transit friendly government that QC has ever had. With financing of the Gatineau and Québec streetcars, plus many other Montréal projects, things are looking positive.

I think all projects were already going forward when they took power. Tho I'm not so sure about the one in Gatineau...

[Reecemartin]

A video on some of the cool little changes being made by the TTC such as Platic Ties and Improved Wayfinding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVdVgTAXWbw

[J.OT13]

Couple short videos showcasing Confederation Line Stations. From east to west.

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