Metro Vancouver Transportation & Transit Plebiscite

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

I'm very doubtful that this thing is going to pass. Looking through all the comments on Facebook and any other coment place there seems to be about 200 no's to a yes or 2. And they all seem to have their entire household vote the same way. And they all spout off the same reasons, translink wastes money. Yet when compared they are up there being one of the best, if not the best. People really are uneducated. So disappointing; but it's the same thing with all votes I guess. I guess we will find out in a few months. Though I'm quite doubtful.

It's important to remember that internet commenters are for the most part not the best arena for intelligent discussion and tend to sway conservative for most situations anyway. It's good that they're trying to hold the vote early, but there just hasn't been enough time for education.

And it's obvious that the CTF's campaign has been much more effective than the BTC's. They have a unified voice in a very charismatic, aggressive Jordan Bateman. The BTC seems to put out a different person into every interview/debate, and they're all soft. I think Global held a short little debate between Bateman and Seth Klein, and it was no contest. Bateman was able to frame every question into an attack on TransLink, and actually made quite a few mistakes that Klein could've easily capitalised on, but didn't. Not only this, but he let Bateman interrupt him constantly. Say what you want against Bateman, I've probably thought it, but the guy is a much more talented speaker than anyone I've seen representing the yes side. He's got the "David v Goliath" and "looking out for the little guy" thing on lock.

Here's the debate if anybody wanted to watch it: http://globalnews.ca/video/1862563/y...cision-debate/

Originally Posted by Pinion

If that's the case they should have announced long term plans for our area. I told her I voted yes, but it would've been an easy yes if skytrain to the north shore was part of the plan, and she enthusiastically agreed. Even if it's 25 years out and we don't use it, it would be nice to know the funding will help our area.

You're right, and I've voiced my criticisms of the "yes" campaign's above. For all the money they have at their disposal, they really haven't done a very good job of promoting their cause. However, I will say that it's hard to plan out transit routes that far ahead. Who knows what travel patterns will look like in 15 years, especially if this plebiscite passes? There are already a few routes getting improved that really don't deserve to be, so I think choosing even more routes without stellar ridership would be inaccurate, and frankly would be hard to keep that promise.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

It's important to remember that internet commenters are for the most part not the best arena for intelligent discussion and tend to sway conservative for most situations anyway.

Like those in this forum....

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Like those in this forum....

I wouldn't be laughing, Queetz.

[Pinion]

This forum leans right fiscally/is business friendly but the news comments area are full of people that just hate everyone and everything that isn't a suburban middle-aged social conservative like them.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by squeezied

I wouldn't be laughing, Queetz.

Originally Posted by Pinion

This forum leans right fiscally/is business friendly but the news comments area are full of people that just hate everyone and everything that isn't a suburban middle-aged social conservative like them.

I think this forum provides a higher level of discussion than most internet comment boards out there. Go pick any article from any news website, we all know how they look.

That being said, there are some people whose responses to certain things are so predictable I feel like I could write them myself.

Some people use a fair amount of critical thinking and logical analysis with an open mind. Some don't.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This reminds me so much of how polarized US politics has become. In particular, it reminds me of Thomas Frank's book "What's the matter with Kansas?", which examines why people of the state consistently vote for a party whose policies are squarely against their own best interests.

I find it very depressing.

Exactly. People are voting no for all the wrong reasons. They are listening to the baseless rhetoric the Canadian Taxpayers Federation or Fraser Institute keeps churning out. The media hasn't exactly helped the "yes" sides cause either.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This reminds me so much of how polarized US politics has become. In particular, it reminds me of Thomas Frank's book "What's the matter with Kansas?", which examines why people of the state consistently vote for a party whose policies are squarely against their own best interests.

I find it very depressing.

Kinda like this Canadian pacific northwest city I heard of once that does the very same thing.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Exactly. People are voting no for all the wrong reasons. They are listening to the baseless rhetoric the Canadian Taxpayers Federation or Fraser Institute keeps churning out. The media hasn't exactly helped the "yes" sides cause either.

Exactly. They should be listening to the baseless rhetoric coming from Translink and those benefiting from its continued operation instead.

[DKaz]

It's weird.

Most of my friends are voting no.
Most of my colleagues and family are voting yes.

[CBeats]

Pretty much all of my colleagues, friends, and family are voting yes.

[GlassCity]

My experiences reflect those that have been voiced by experts: my university friends (who bus) as well as my younger brother are voting yes, while older friends/family with their own cars are voting no, and so are my stoner friends who rely on transit.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Exactly. They should be listening to the baseless rhetoric coming from Translink and those benefiting from its continued operation instead.

Which rhetoric coming from TransLink is baseless?

[WarrenC12]

Well the budget rumours were true, federal funding for big transit projects is going to be $750M/yr for 2 years then $1B/yr.

Realistically this will be spent in the big cities like Vancouver. This bodes well for the UBC and Surrey lines, regardless of the referendum outcome.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well the budget rumours were true, federal funding for big transit projects is going to be $750M/yr for 2 years then $1B/yr.

Realistically this will be spent in the big cities like Vancouver. This bodes well for the UBC and Surrey lines, regardless of the referendum outcome.

I'd rather it didn't bode well for the Surrey (LRT) lines, but yes, great news. This is of course provided that the Conservatives remain in power, so who knows if it will actually happen. Either way, I doubt these projects would be built regardless thanks to this announcement, as the Mayors assumed they would get equal funding from the Province and Federal Government already.

[WarrenC12]

The feds are waving a bigger carrot here though, as compared to the mayors just assuming it would happen.

I don't see Trudeau cutting this plan if he's the big boy after the next election. He may even promise to double it pre-election. Toronto already seems to think they are getting all of it.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The feds are waving a bigger carrot here though, as compared to the mayors just assuming it would happen.

I don't see Trudeau cutting this plan if he's the big boy after the next election. He may even promise to double it pre-election. Toronto already seems to think they are getting all of it.

Is it really that much bigger though? I'm just worried that this'll make Bateman go "see guys? I told you everything's gonna be built anyway! You don't need a new tax!" Even if true, he, and many others, are completely ignoring the insane bus improvements proposed, that will be lost.

Yeah. With transit being such a hot topic in places like Toronto and here, I wouldn't be surprised to see all parties come up with some promise on it. And from what I've been reading on the Great Canadian Transit Thread, it looks like it'll probably be distributed by population.

[Kisai]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/300808401.html

Jeff Nagel - BC Local News , Apr 21, 2015
Broken video monitors. A giant poodle sculpture. A study for a transit gondola up Burnaby Mountain.

The No campaign website lists example after example of spending it says adds up to "extreme waste" at TransLink.

Yes advocates argue the money involved is insignificant compared to the cost of transit operations, which consume two thirds of TransLink's $1.4-billion annual budget.

So how does TransLink perform on broad measures of transit service efficiency against other transit systems? Do Metro Vancouver residents get enough for the dollars spent?

Comparisons are tricky because transit systems have different characteristics and there are many ways to gauge them.
...

There's some charts at the end, but nothing we didn't already know here.

While I'm at it, there's a News1130 poll on placespeak.com that is only slightly tilted towards the No side... given that it seems like News1130's readers/listeners seem hellbent on posting no comments all over it.

[Sheba]

A study for a transit gondola up Burnaby Mountain.

Anyone who thinks that idea is a waste hasn't taken a bus up Burnaby Mountain. The 145 from Production Way Station is practically a B-Line and gets really busy during the day.

SFU combined with the residential and retail they've been adding up there (and will be for years to come) means there are a lot of people travelling there. Then add in that in winter they have to keep an eye on the roads - if there's too much snow and ice it becomes treacherous to drive.

Sooo... a gondola up the mountain solves those problems. It's not like they can run the Skytrain up those kinds of grades.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Sheba

A study for a transit gondola up Burnaby Mountain.

Anyone who thinks that idea is a waste hasn't taken a bus up Burnaby Mountain. The 145 from Production Way Station is practically a B-Line and gets really busy during the day.

SFU combined with the residential and retail they've been adding up there (and will be for years to come) means there are a lot of people travelling there. Then add in that in winter they have to keep an eye on the roads - if there's too much snow and ice it becomes treacherous to drive.

Sooo... a gondola up the mountain solves those problems. It's not like they can run the Skytrain up those kinds of grades.

I agree. A gondola servicing SFU is money far better spent then an at grade L-line in Surrey. We wouldn't know it was money well spent unless a study was performed.

Build the gondola and move those busses to service Surrey.

[TourOdeon]

It's extremely unlikely that the referendum will pass, the "No" voters seem to be leading by a wide margin. So, whats next?