ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by NativeAtlantan

I think the middle area is for HOV ramps and not sure about the outside part but it's probably where the 17th St. Northbound exit ramp will go.

HOV ramps would be my guess for the middle area. The side green area is for the 10th street southbound exit ramp from I-85. You have the view reversed.

[citywalker]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

HOV ramps would be my guess for the middle area. The side green area is for the 10th street southbound exit ramp from I-85. You have the view reversed.

Actually I believe the side green area is just sidewalk space...if you look it is on the same level as the rest of the sidewalks and stops at the bridge. The 10th street exit ramp is lower and to the side of that space which you can slightly see in the cam shots.

[rgreen2206]

There seems to be some doubt about support for the belt-line. No such thing! From grass roots to government, support is extremely high if not universal and progress is being made month to month. I'm not familiar with New York's High Line but reject comparisons out of hand seems silly if it can inform our situation in any way. What is great about Belt-line and so suited to existing development is that this is a ground level effort with a large public space (new parks and bike and pedestrian patrhs) component. Not to mention the huge redevelopment that will add to and complement the existing neighborhoods.

Crime is one thing going down hill in this city, both perceived and real, and it can really mess us up. Home invasions. Street Muggings. Brazen snatch and grab robberies seemingly every other day. My New York friends have expressed concern about street safety. A Forsythian Jerk I work with had the temerity to ask "How is the Snatch an' Grab Mile comming along?"

Please vote for public safety and demand it from our politicians and power structure every chance you get!

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

HOV ramps would be my guess for the middle area. The side green area is for the 10th street southbound exit ramp from I-85. You have the view reversed.

here's the GDOT plan (i should of posted the link earlier).
from what i can see there's alot of empty space in the middle (no access/egress) and bare concrete along techwood.
i'm no expert in translating these types of plans so if someone has any insight after looking them over, we'd all appreciate input.

GDOT PLAN 14TH & 17TH STREET CORRIDOR

[A-town]

Originally Posted by gttx

Sorry, but you are comparing apples and oranges. The High Line and the BeltLine are two VERY different projects in two VERY different cities.

You should really conduct research before posting a response, now for the facts. Below I have list excerpts from the wikipedia pages from both the BeltLine and High Line, I'll let the facts speak for themselves then respond.


From BeltLine Wikipedia
The concept originated with a 1999 masters degree thesis by Georgia Tech student Ryan Gravel, who founded the non-profit Friends of the Belt Line and currently works for the city of Atlanta's planning department. Frustrated with the lack of transportation alternatives in Atlanta, Gravel and two of his colleagues, Mark Arnold and Sarah Edgens, summarized his thesis in 2000 and mailed copies to two dozen influential Atlantans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeltLine


From High Line Wikipedia
In 1999, neighborhood residents Robert Hammond and Joshua David created the community group Friends of the High Line to push the idea of turning the High Line into an elevated park or greenway, similar to the Promenade Plantée in Paris.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Line_(New_York_City)


The articles not only confirm these projects are the same, but also suggest they stole our idea, vice versa or the people behind both know each other. The next big trend in real estate will be the redevelopment of abandoned railways throughout every major city in the country. If you're a smart investor with deep pockets, you should invest heavily in this type of land. Trust me, this will be duplicated throughout the country and maybe even the world.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by A-town

You should really conduct research before posting a response, now for the facts.

.....

The articles not only confirm these projects are the same, but also suggest they stole our idea, vice versa or the people behind both know each other.

Ah yes, the old "you are an ignorant fool" response, followed by conclusive documentation from Wikipedia.

You are entitled to your opinion, but the only similarity between these two projects is the fact that the redeveloped area is disused rail corridor. Maybe - MAYBE - you could argue that the process behind the movement was the same, but again the similarity is only surface-level (ie "Friends of the High Line" and "Friends of the Belt Line"). Beyond that, their design, implementation, future use, and even historical context is wholly different. And if you cannot see the difference between park space in Manhattan and park space in inner-ring suburban Atlanta, that is a problem unto itself.

As it stands, both are incredibly interesting projects, and projects that may be standard-bearers for adaptive reuse in other cities. But to say that they are nearly identical - and even to go as far as saying that New York STOLE the idea for the High Line from Atlanta - is foolish.

[sammyg]

Originally Posted by A-town

The articles not only confirm these projects are the same, but also suggest they stole our idea, vice versa or the people behind both know each other. ...Trust me, this will be duplicated throughout the country and maybe even the world.

Both plans were inspired by the Promenade Plantée in Paris - I'm surprised you didn't find its wikipedia page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promenade_plantee

[A-town]

Originally Posted by gttx

Ah yes, the old "you are an ignorant fool" response, followed by conclusive documentation from Wikipedia.

You are entitled to your opinion, but the only similarity between these two projects is the fact that the redeveloped area is disused rail corridor. Maybe - MAYBE - you could argue that the process behind the movement was the same, but again the similarity is only surface-level (ie "Friends of the High Line" and "Friends of the Belt Line"). Beyond that, their design, implementation, future use, and even historical context is wholly different. And if you cannot see the difference between park space in Manhattan and park space in inner-ring suburban Atlanta, that is a problem unto itself.

As it stands, both are incredibly interesting projects, and projects that may be standard-bearers for adaptive reuse in other cities. But to say that they are nearly identical - and even to go as far as saying that New York STOLE the idea for the High Line from Atlanta - is foolish.

No need for name calling, we can be adults about this. The basic concepts of the BeltLine and High Line is the redevelopment of abandoned railroads tracks into green, walkable neighborhoods. The only difference between the two are their locations, BeltLine is bigger because Atlanta has more undeveloped land whereas with New York it's being built in a densely populated city. One of the BeltLine primary objectives is the spur future growth and development, the High Line has 33 new projects that are in development, the same effect the BeltLine will have when it officially get started.

And why is it so hard to believe that New York's High Line may have been derived from Atlanta's BeltLine, we aren't a non innovative city. And I didn't just say New York stole our idea, I also said we may have stole it from them or the people behind both projects know each other. I think you're over looking the obvious, don't over think it.

[A-town]

Originally Posted by sammyg

Both plans were inspired by the Promenade Plantée in Paris - I'm surprised you didn't find its wikipedia page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promenade_plantee

I did, it's just that the Promenade Plantee' in Paris was developed to be an elevated park whereas BeltLine and High Line are meant to spur residential, retail and commercial growth. So I didn't feel the need to mention it.

[jaypkatl]

Thats all the High Line is - an elevated park. It has nothing to do with Transit as the Beltline does.

[A-town]

High Line had no reason to include transit in it's master plan, it's in New York City, which has the best transit system in the world already in place. High Line is only 1.45 miles long versus the 22 mile long BeltLine, that why transit for the BeltLine is needed.

[foxmccleod]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

here's the GDOT plan (i should of posted the link earlier).
from what i can see there's alot of empty space in the middle (no access/egress) and bare concrete along techwood.
i'm no expert in translating these types of plans so if someone has any insight after looking them over, we'd all appreciate input.

GDOT PLAN 14TH & 17TH STREET CORRIDOR

It looks like the median space has been reserved for the proposed 15th Street HOV bridge. The median would hold the ramps to the bridge. I don't know if it is still being considered, but the space looks like it might be adequate should they choose to procede in the future.

I don't recall whether the plans to extend 15th street were tied to the Trump Towers construction or if they were simply being planned around the same time.

[jaypkatl]

See you said it yourself - They are completely different types projects

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by foxmccleod

It looks like the median space has been reserved for the proposed 15th Street HOV bridge. The median would hold the ramps to the bridge. I don't know if it is still being considered, but the space looks like it might be adequate should they choose to procede in the future.

I don't recall whether the plans to extend 15th street were tied to the Trump Towers construction or if they were simply being planned around the same time.

I had no idea a 15th Street HOV exit was planned, but that does make sense. It could easily tie into the Arts Center Station.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by A-town

High Line had no reason to include transit in it's master plan, it's in New York City, which has the best transit system in the world already in place. High Line is only 1.45 miles long versus the 22 mile long BeltLine, that why transit for the BeltLine is needed.

and therein lies the major difference between the highline and the beltline.

1) the beltline (through transit, parkland, trails and paths) will provide connectivity between disjointed and disconnected neighborhoods in central atlanta.....some 40+ neighborhoods depending on who is counting.

2) the beltline will provide real and viable transportation alternatives to driving in atlanta, whereas you couldn't say the same for the highline which is located in one of the most connected and transit alternative cities in the US.

3) additionally, and perhaps one of the most provocative elements of the beltline is the likelihood that it's presense will spur and incentivise both developers, business owners and residents to live, work, play and worship in the immediate areas surrounding the beltline, again, all pre-existing elements surrounding the highline in NYC.

4) while some incorrectly call atlanta's beltline a novelty, if you can visualize the entire concept in all of it's complexity and recognize the immediate, short term and long term benefits, you'll realize it's presence will become one of the tradmark features of the atlanta landscape. the beltline is much more practical and innovative than it is novelty.

5) the NYC highline is in fact, a novelty. no doubt, it's adaptive reuse, however, it's still a novelty and a unique one at that.

for anyone who has not taken the beltline tour, it's HIGHLY worth your time. not only is it informative beyond anything you might imagine, you really will find it diffucult to grasp and fully understand the scope of the project until you take the tour.

tours are every friday and saturday, sign up at beltline.org.

you will be impressed.

[atl2phx]

check this out......here's a great video illustrating atlanta's beltline concept focusing on and including a flythrough of the NORTHEAST CORRIDOR:

• Video Link

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

and therein lies the major difference between the highline and the beltline.

all nicely said...there are clearly many salient differences.

on another note, on the topic of time horizon, was reading the desire of some to find ways to shorten the timeline for delivery...something which apparently isn't supported by all. it does seem lengthy to me when considering other [more complex] transit projects elsewhere, but perhaps there are good reasons.

i am curious to hear what those might be. but am wondering if there's been any consideration to at least making the trail usable much, much sooner rather than later. once the right of way were secured, it wouldn't much to clear segments of debris and make those areas it a lot more ped and bike friendly. teams of volunteers could even make it a lot more usable in short order. is that something that would fit into the current development plan(s)?

[Fiorenza]

teams of volunteers could even make it a lot more usable in short order.

This work will need to be stretched out over 10 years or more, contracted by bureaucrats to union contractors, using tax payola.

[Free]

^ Union contractors... as opposed to the great, government subsidized CW Matthews?

[A-town]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

and therein lies the major difference between the highline and the beltline.

1) the beltline (through transit, parkland, trails and paths) will provide connectivity between disjointed and disconnected neighborhoods in central atlanta.....some 40+ neighborhoods depending on who is counting.

2) the beltline will provide real and viable transportation alternatives to driving in atlanta, whereas you couldn't say the same for the highline which is located in one of the most connected and transit alternative cities in the US.

3) additionally, and perhaps one of the most provocative elements of the beltline is the likelihood that it's presense will spur and incentivise both developers, business owners and residents to live, work, play and worship in the immediate areas surrounding the beltline, again, all pre-existing elements surrounding the highline in NYC.

4) while some incorrectly call atlanta's beltline a novelty, if you can visualize the entire concept in all of it's complexity and recognize the immediate, short term and long term benefits, you'll realize it's presence will become one of the tradmark features of the atlanta landscape. the beltline is much more practical and innovative than it is novelty.

5) the NYC highline is in fact, a novelty. no doubt, it's adaptive reuse, however, it's still a novelty and a unique one at that.

for anyone who has not taken the beltline tour, it's HIGHLY worth your time. not only is it informative beyond anything you might imagine, you really will find it diffucult to grasp and fully understand the scope of the project until you take the tour.

tours are every friday and saturday, sign up at beltline.org.

you will be impressed.

Well said, but Atlanta sprawls, New York is dense, we build out, they build up. The concept of both projects are the same, just revamped for two different types of cities but not the project itself. if this concept is applied to southern cities you'll have something like the BeltLine, for northern cities High Line. So the concept remains the same just revamped to fit the individual needs of the city. All we're doing is taking abandoned railways, transforming them into walkable parks in the hopes that it will spur growth and development, that's all I've been trying to say since post one.