Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by whatnext

An excellent editorial in the Courier about Critical Mass:

...Critical Mass organizers say one of their mandates is to make the point the mass of cyclists don't "block" traffic, but instead "are" traffic and demand respect as such.

Which, I guess, is why the Vancouver group's Facebook page is full of photographs of cycling participants stopped in the middle of the Lions Gate Bridge and doing what looks like blocking traffic. In one photo, one of the cyclists can be seen leaning up against his bike enjoying a can of Strongbow cider, a refreshing alcoholic drink manufactured in England.

We also have Strongbow in the fridge at home, but it wouldn't occur to me to stop my car in the middle of a bridge and hold up traffic while I sat and enjoyed a frosty cold one...

..Last summer we were at English Bay one balmy evening when the mass rode by after "not blocking" the Lions Gate Bridge for an hour. An elderly woman with a cane attempted to cross Beach Avenue towards the Sylvia Hotel. Until then, my thoughts on Critical Mass were fairly neutral, but after watching the bad behaviour of dozens of the riders that evening, it became obvious there's nothing honourable or righteous in what they do. They acted like street thugs, ignoring and taunting not only the woman, but also the men who tried to help her cross the street with her cane. Finally, the group of men helping the woman grew and they made a human barricade to shield her from the bike traffic, whose riders made it clear she was nothing more than collateral damage.... (bold mine)

Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/travel/Cri...#ixzz0yr6fpy4Z

my friend is a staunch cyclist and he used to partake in critical mass a few years ago but said it took a direction he didn't like and doesn't to it anymore and doesn't like to support it

[IanS]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Nah. Too many businesses spending all their time complaining about their glasses being half empty instead of taking advantage of the fact that they're actually half full...

Very perceptive.

I assume that you run your business in a more positive fashion?

[racc]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

We were talking a few pages back about how hotels on Hornby could take advantage of the bike lane by promoting it as an amenity.

Anyways, it looks like the Hyatt in Calgary is now doing this exact thing, providing guests a bike and pathway map:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=184823

If it works in Calgary...

And Montreal. Streets like Hornby with separated bike lanes will be prime locations for shared bikes if/when they come to Vancouver.

http://news.cheapflights.com/2010/08...-free-cycling/

Montreal hotel deal with free cycling
If you are looking to use up some of your stashed vacation days, a tryst inMontreal may be your answer. If you are an avid traveler and exercise lover, this is ideal for you. Le Centre Sheraton Montreal Hotel is offering great summer rates and free BIXI Cycling for guests visiting before Aug. 31, courtesy of Marie-Andrée (Director of Sales & Marketing). Summer rates start at only CAD $159.
Montreal is known as the “Paris of the North.” Culturally stimulating and aesthetically pleasing, Montreal is known for its diversity which makes the city a unique and exciting destination. Use your four hours of complimentary BIXI cycling to explore the Old Port of Montreal, the Latin Quarter, and the Biodome. Visit the Underground Pedestrian Network for shopping, museums and more.

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by racc

What would you call it then. In an election, that would be a landslide. Our governing party in Canada only 37.63% of the vote in the last election.

I wouldn't call it significant. Approval from "nearly half of Vancouver voters" is hardly the landslide you're trying to make it out to be.

[racc]

Originally Posted by Smooth

I wouldn't call it significant. Approval from "nearly half of Vancouver voters" is hardly the landslide you're trying to make it out to be.

I guess we are not going to agree over what "significant" means. Lets put it into numbers then. Assuming the adult population of Vancouver is around 600,000. 288,000 people support the bike lanes, 198,000 do not support, the rest would be neutral. So around 90,000 more people support the bike lanes than are against them.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by IanS

I assume that you run your business in a more positive fashion?

Well, I'm definitely a "glass half full" kinda guy...

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Nah. Too many businesses spending all their time complaining about their glasses being half empty instead of taking advantage of the fact that they're actually half full...

Fortunately, some downtown businesses such as this one - http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...ours-bike-lane - are saying having parking isn't everything. Cause apparently businesses can be started and even be successful without any parking in front of or near it, who would have guessed??

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by IanS

I read that article. It's too bad the police don't have the resources or mandate to deal with these thugs.

Yep, that was the same issue with the cyclist whinging that he got a ticket because he didn't come to to a full stop at a stop sign (anyone sense a pattern of behaviour here).

..When he reached the four-way stop at Manitoba Street, he slowed his pace, scanned for traffic and rolled ahead without coming to a complete stop.

"Not only can I tell if there are other vehicles at the intersection as I approach it, I can see well beyond to know even if other vehicles are anywhere near the intersection," Carruthers, 39, told the Courier. There were no other vehicles, pedestrians or cyclists in sight, he said. "There was no one there but me."...

Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/Cycling+ad...#ixzz0ytfHQ5QB

You know, because that tactic worked so well for Councillor Meggs. If I'm driving a convertible with great sightlines, can I declare my self exempt from the rules of the road too?

[jlousa]

Kinda of funny that he looked around and did not see any traffic, but somehow he missed seeing the police officer. Guess he didn't look all that hard.

The Fairmont Pacific rim is also renting bikes to it's guests, that doesn't mean they support nor don't support bike lanes, it means they know the seawall is right there and there is a market for them to make some money.

[racc]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Y If I'm driving a convertible with great sightlines, can I declare my self exempt from the rules of the road too?

<rant>
Well, that is what drivers when they go over the speed limit, which is pretty much all the time on many roads. Remember, even 1 km/h over the limit is breaking the law. They use the lame excuse of keeping up with flow traffic for "safety reasons". Drivers even lobbied for the elimination of photo radar so they could get away with breaking the law. They won't even slow down in the construction zone on Highway 1 after whining for years about congestion.

Even worse, careless and reckless drivers are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of other drivers, pedestrians and cyclists in the province.
</rant>

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Fortunately, some downtown businesses such as this one - http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...ours-bike-lane - are saying having parking isn't everything. Cause apparently businesses can be started and even be successful without any parking in front of or near it, who would have guessed??

As much as you'd like to mock him, he has a very valid point. I will only go Downtown via SkyTrain, and I know a lot of suburbanites who proscribe to the same policy. There's more than enough general shops selling electronics, books, clothes, or what have you, in far more accessible and close locations. Downtown businesses need to be either in a niche market, cater to the office crowds or the well-off locals of Yaletown/Coal Harbour, or fill the arts/entertainment/tourist role that a central core should serve. Any other business is market fair game.

Anyways, we need to look at the numbers. I suspect that a far greater proportion of people come into Downtown or travel around the area via their feets, their bikes, or transit, than do via cars. As he says, there's more to a business than a couple parking stalls.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

my friend is a staunch cyclist and he used to partake in critical mass a few years ago but said it took a direction he didn't like and doesn't to it anymore and doesn't like to support it

Critical Mass: "thugs taking the civil out of civilization".

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

As much as you'd like to mock him, he has a very valid point. I will only go Downtown via SkyTrain, and I know a lot of suburbanites who proscribe to the same policy. There's more than enough general shops selling electronics, books, clothes, or what have you, in far more accessible and close locations. Downtown businesses need to be either in a niche market, cater to the office crowds or the well-off locals of Yaletown/Coal Harbour, or fill the arts/entertainment/tourist role that a central core should serve. Any other business is market fair game.

Anyways, we need to look at the numbers. I suspect that a far greater proportion of people come into Downtown or travel around the area via their feets, their bikes, or transit, than do via cars. As he says, there's more to a business than a couple parking stalls.

Umm apologies for not making my sarcasm more obvious. But I agree with the business owner in the article and everything you just said.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by racc

<rant>
Well, that is what drivers when they go over the speed limit, which is pretty much all the time on many roads. Remember, even 1 km/h over the limit is breaking the law. They use the lame excuse of keeping up with flow traffic for "safety reasons". Drivers even lobbied for the elimination of photo radar so they could get away with breaking the law. They won't even slow down in the construction zone on Highway 1 after whining for years about congestion.

Even worse, careless and reckless drivers are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of other drivers, pedestrians and cyclists in the province.
</rant>

Umm guys can we please keep the bike vs auto discussion out of this thread. I think we've established that both drivers and cyclists, including many in Critical Mass, break the law, rehashing it over and over again won't change things.

And RACC, I know where you are coming from, but criticizing one or several cyclists , is not a criticism of all of them, just of those individuals. This is a bike/pedestrian thread so pointing out things that are on the news good or bad about cyclists will happen here. I'm sure if there was a car thread, there would be plenty of drivers to point out things that other individual drivers did.

Also, while I applaud the goals of Critical Mass, those in charge need to get control of the extremities(aka the "thugs") so as to avoid having the media paint all cyclists as thugs.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Umm apologies for not making my sarcasm more obvious. But I agree with the business owner in the article and everything you just said.

Well I'm taken aback! Perhaps I'm too pessimistic about the general pro-vehicle tone of this thread... assuming intentions when they weren't even there...

[madmigs]

See not all cyclists are thugs - http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/New...spx?ID=1275478

Cyclists earn high praise from police
NORTH VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)
Charmaine de Silva | Email news tips to charmaine.desilva@corusent.com
9/8/2010


They don't want to be known as heroes, but that's exactly what the North Vancouver RCMP say they are.

Two cyclists are being credited with talking a distraught man down from the ledge of the Second Narrows Bridge Tuesday morning.

Kevin Hall and Frank Robson were cycling across the bridge at 9:45 a-m, when they noticed a man standing on the ledge.

Hall says they realized the man was extremely distraught, so they started to talk to him, and eventually pulled him to safety, "I just can't say enough about how my friend Frank consoled this fellow, and I'm just glad he's going to be okay."

Two RCMP officers arrived on scene, just as Hall and Robson pulled the man up. He was taken to hospital for medical treatment.

[Porfiry]

Speaking of businesses and parking, the city now trialling the use of on-street bike corrals to provide higher capacity bike parking in front of select businesses. The idea is simple, you replace one car parking space with enough bike racks for 18 bikes. Not only are you densifying the customer parking, you free the sidewalk up for pedestrians.

The first trial corral was installed on Commercial in front of a JJ Bean cafe. The interesting part is that the installation of these is done at the request of the business owner. In other words, some businesses actually do understand that a cyclist is as valuable a customer as anyone else, except we take up less space. Recognize this and profit.

http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transpor...ng/corrals.htm

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Fortunately, some downtown businesses such as this one - http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...ours-bike-lane - are saying having parking isn't everything. Cause apparently businesses can be started and even be successful without any parking in front of or near it, who would have guessed??

Finally someone with some sense that actually runs a business.

I've always felt that if a business goes under, just because they loose a few parking spots in front of their store. They really have far more serious problems. A couple of parking stalls should not put a business in to bankruptcy.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Finally someone with some sense that actually runs a business.

I've always felt that if a business goes under, just because they loose a few parking spots in front of their store. They really have far more serious problems. A couple of parking stalls should not put a business in to bankruptcy.

Absolutely. I imagine you're correct in that, to the extent the loss of parking or car access does result in damage to businesses, it'll be the marginal businesses, the ones who are not doing well, that will suffer the most.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Speaking of businesses and parking, the city now trialling the use of on-street bike corrals to provide higher capacity bike parking in front of select businesses. The idea is simple, you replace one car parking space with enough bike racks for 18 bikes. Not only are you densifying the customer parking, you free the sidewalk up for pedestrians.

The first trial corral was installed on Commercial in front of a JJ Bean cafe. The interesting part is that the installation of these is done at the request of the business owner. In other words, some businesses actually do understand that a cyclist is as valuable a customer as anyone else, except we take up less space. Recognize this and profit.

http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transpor...ng/corrals.htm

Neat. I look forward to reading or hearing of some data setting out whether the business done by stores in the area of the new bike corrals has increased or decreased after installation. That kind of data will go a long way to establishing that putting more such infrastructure in place is a boon (or a detriment, depending on the evidence) to business.