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  #1221  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 1:45 AM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Honestly, I might have to disagree. I think American and Canadian football is different enough that you can't make statements like that. For example, I really enjoy the CFL but I can't watch the NFL at all because it's so damn slow. It's not a patriotic thing either: If the leagues switched rules I'd only watch the NFL and wouldn't watch the CFL. I'd say that both the NFL and the CFL are the top tier for their respective sports.
I'll watch the Lions but some of the stuff that happens in a CFL game is laughable. A guy breaking through 5 tackles, all the turnovers, dropped passes. NFL players just execute much better. They are faster and they are bigger.
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  #1222  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 1:45 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Well, if they're that young who are the people buying the tickets at those outrageous prices?
I could flip that around and say if they are so unpopular how is it that they have the highest playoff ticket prices in the NBA? Look not every single fan they have is young but generally they have the youngest fanbase.
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  #1223  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 2:03 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
I'll watch the Lions but some of the stuff that happens in a CFL game is laughable. A guy breaking through 5 tackles, all the turnovers, dropped passes.
You mean like this year's Super Bore?

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  #1224  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 2:19 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
I'll watch the Lions but some of the stuff that happens in a CFL game is laughable. A guy breaking through 5 tackles, all the turnovers, dropped passes. NFL players just execute much better. They are faster and they are bigger.
People always say that but I see it just as often when I watch the NFL. I can't possibly see how a guy breaking through 5 tackles is negative either. When it happens in the NFL, like what Marshawn Lynch did a couple years ago, it's a good run, but in the CFL it's bad tackling. Or what about the Giants and Patriots Superbowl in 2011 when Tom Brady's receivers were dropping just about every pass? I really don't notice any better execution in the NFL at all.

And if they are faster and bigger, how much could the difference really be? You really think that there is a significant difference? I mean a lot of CFL guys ripped up college football, playing against those same guys that are in the NFL now. Even if NFL players are faster and bigger, it's really not noticeable in the gameplay.
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  #1225  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 2:23 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
I'll watch the Lions but some of the stuff that happens in a CFL game is laughable. A guy breaking through 5 tackles, all the turnovers, dropped passes. NFL players just execute much better. They are faster and they are bigger.
So when Marshawn Lynch breaks 7 tackles and scores a touchdown against the New Orleans Saints during a playoff game that is bush in your eyes? Or when Denver Bronco receivers drop a dozen passes during the super bowl?

Look at Calvillo's or Ray's percentages (attempt/completions) vs Manning or Rogers, there is not alot of difference.

I get so sick of Canadians who just automatically think that a Div II US college team would destroy a CFL roster. They just have no clue.
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  #1226  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 2:34 AM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
They just have no clue.
That's about the size of it.

The definition of a 6-3 score.

NFL - Two defensive juggernauts in a titanic struggle
CFL - Two crappy offenses
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  #1227  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 2:36 AM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
So when Marshawn Lynch breaks 7 tackles and scores a touchdown against the New Orleans Saints during a playoff game that is bush in your eyes? Or when Denver Bronco receivers drop a dozen passes during the super bowl?

Look at Calvillo's or Ray's percentages (attempt/completions) vs Manning or Rogers, there is not alot of difference.

I get so sick of Canadians who just automatically think that a Div II US college team would destroy a CFL roster. They just have no clue.
Who said Div. 2. I would say though that an NFL team would destroy a CFL team.
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  #1228  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 2:40 AM
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Who said Div. 2. I would say though that an NFL team would destroy a CFL team.
US rules for sure

CFL rules? Their Offensive and Defensive linemen would be puking their guts out after the first 1/4.
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  #1229  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 5:08 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
You ever wonder what's going on when we see things like TV ratings and the poll below. When the owners of the teams control most of the media, objectivity goes out the window. And when they own every team except two (Argos, Rock), guess who gets the shaft? The people are speaking but the conglomerates don't seem to be listening.

I'm not sure how helpful this poll is as it only measure favourite team. Most sports fans follow more than one sport. A poll allowing multiple choices asking which teams one watches regularly would be more informative.

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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Well, if they're that young who are the people buying the tickets at those outrageous prices?
I'm a big Raptors fan (I'm on the b-ball message boards as much I'm on SSP) and I can say, only anecdotally, that Raptors fans are younger and much more ethnically diverse than the Leafs, Argos or even Jays fanbases. Toronto has a massive (and rapidly growing) immigrant population, and generally those kids don't have the family history steeped in hockey culture that a typical nth generation Canadian kid does. This generation comes from places where sports are played with a ball and some friends, not ice and skates. That's why they're being drawn to basketball and soccer.

Just take a look at the differences in demographics between the Leafs fanbase and the Raptors fanbase in Maple Leaf Square during their respective playoff games:


Because they're younger, this generation of Raptors fans naturally tends to be more internet savvy. I can definitely say (again, anecdotally) that a lot of Raptors fans watch games by streaming the games online, which doesn't get picked up in the conventional ratings measures. Now there's probably not enough of that happening to suddenly make the Raptors match-up with the Argos for example, but I do think that the popularity of the Raptors in Toronto is seriously underestimated. And in fact, if the Raptors somehow made it to the conference finals, I wouldn't be surprised to see the TV numbers easily eclipse those of the Argos.

With respect to who's buying those playoff tickets at those outrageous prices... well, for one, it's the hot ticket in town right now, and two, although the overall fanbase is indeed young, there's absolutely an older hardcore fanbase out there with a disposable income, myself and many of my friends included.

I'm already anticipating someone coming in here and arguing that it was Leafs fans who were forced to buy those expensive playoff tickets, but that's just not true. If anyone wants proof of how passionate the Raptors fanbase is, go watch the first playoff game and listen to how raucous the crowd was. It was so loud in there that players weren't hearing the referees' whistles or each other's calls. Toronto is known in NBA circles as having one of the most ferocious crowds (when they actually have something to cheer for).

Edited to add: Here's one more indicator of how large and internet-oriented the Raptors fanbase is. This is a link to the forum index for RealGM.com, one of the largest and most popular basketball websites out there. Take a look at how many posts are in the Raptors forum compared to any other team's. http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=243

Last edited by Ramako; Apr 22, 2014 at 5:37 AM.
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  #1230  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 5:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
I can definitely say (again, anecdotally) that a lot of Raptors fans watch games by streaming the games online, which doesn't get picked up in the conventional ratings measures.
I haven't had cable TV in a couple of years. I watch Raptors games on NBA Game Time online. They get blacked out live, but to get around that all you need is a free proxy server thingy like Expat Shield for when you log in (when the game starts you can turn Expat Shield off, as it slows the stream down).

The interesting thing about NBA Game Time is that often you get the play-by-play crew of the opposing team instead of the Raptors broadcasters, so you get to hear their opinions of the team, the crowds and the city. With the Raptors playing better lately the crowds have been loud and boisterous, and the colour commentators never fail to notice this. Toronto has been so starved for any sort of sports success for so long that there's a palpable hunger for it. The fans put on a good show Saturday (Brooklyn TV announcer at the sight of the outside of the ACC jam-packed with fans watching on a large-screen: "How are we going to get out of here?"), even if the team itself didn't, defeated as they were more by the jitters of inexperience than anything the Nets did.
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  #1231  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 10:53 AM
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A tenuous connection to Sports in Canadian Cullture, I admit, but it's Canadian, and about culture and has a connection to sports - elly

Watch magician Darcy Oake, son of Hockey Night in Canada’s Scott Oake, wow Britain’s Got Talent judges
Rebecca Tucker nationalpost.com April 21, 2014

Darcy Oake travelled to the U.K. just to compete on Britain’s Got Talent, and if the judges’ reactions to his astounding magic routine were any indication, it was worth the flight over.

Oake, a Canadian citizen and son of Hockey Night in Canada’s Scott Oake, appeared on the U.K. talent competition on the weekend, and wowed judges David Walliams, Simon Cowell, Amanda Holden and Alesha Dixon with his remarkable sleight-of-hand routine.

“When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams of being a doctor, but my parents insisted that I become a magician,” Oake said shortly after taking the talent show’s stage, describing how as a child he was wowed by his HNIC hosting father’s card tricks.

Oake’s minute-long routine had both the judges and BGT hosts Anthony McPartlin and Declan Donnelly (Ant & Dec) gobsmacked, as the 26-year-old magician pulled numerous doves seemingly out of thin air — or, at times, out of flames. The act was enough for the judges to give the musician a unanimous push onto the talent show’s next round.

But Oake’s journey from Manitoba to Britain’s Got Talent success hasn’t been without hardship: Ahead of his appearance on the show, Oake opened up about the pain of losing his brother, Bruce, in 2011 to a drug overdose.

“He was attracted into the wrong crowd at school and started smoking marijuana,” Oake told the U.K. Sun of his brother, who developed dependencies on heroin, crystal meth and painkillers. “By 21, he was a full-blown addict.”

Bruce Oake, who completed eight stints in rehab, died in 2011 from a drug overdose, aged 25.

“I feel that, if it goes well, it can change my life,” Oake said of his Britain’s Got Talent appearance. Watch his routine.
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  #1232  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 12:07 PM
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I just came back from Kentucky in what is an annual migration of a subset of Canadians. I was climbing at the Red River Gorge, and in all seriousness, about 2/3 of the people I met climbing there were from Canada (Ontario/Quebec). Even the border guard on Thursday night had noticed and mentioned that a lot of people were heading there.

I've been going for several years now over the easter break as it allows an earlier start to the climbing season. In general it is a really interesting experience, as you run into people from all over the eastern part of North America (and North America in general - we even met a pair of climbers from Alaska), but it never ceases to amaze me that Canadians seem to just overrun the place at easter. We are by far the largest cohort there.
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  #1233  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
I get so sick of Canadians who just automatically think that a Div II US college team would destroy a CFL roster. They just have no clue.
Agree. The worst CFL team would obliterate the best team in the NCAA. Do they not realize that most Division 1 football players don't even get a look by the CFL? People get too blinded by hype and spectacle. The NCAA beats the CFL by that measure, but I think it beats practically any other sport when it comes to that. US college football does that better than anyone, including the NFL.
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  #1234  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 6:03 PM
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^ Anyone who says that a given NCAA team is better than a given CFL team can't be taken seriously.

I get that some people love the hype and spectacle of American college football, but anyone who knows anything about football will recognize that Alabama or Texas A&M or Florida State would not be competitive with any CFL team. To say otherwise is as dumb as saying that a OHL team with 16 year olds that will never see the light of day in the NHL draft could beat a AHL team. Sorry, not gonna happen.
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  #1235  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 11:43 PM
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I would love to see the experiment (detailed below) again. CIS football is light years ahead of 1980 whereas I would think that the American programs were quite mature at that point. They've always treated it like a business while we dabbled as student/athletes. I think we've become much more serious about the athlete part since then. - elly

Another Canadian Sporting Moment

There is probably only one decent account of this on the web, it has become so obscure. The Can-Am Bowl was played at a time when American college programs could hardly get bigger and Canadian programs were nowhere near what they are now. I would hasten to say it would be very interesting to see this replayed with the vast improvement and professionalizing of Canadian university football programs.

The game was played with Canadian rules as the Americans had home field advantage plus the fact that everybody thought Canada would get killed otherwise.

I recall watching this and was amazed how competitive the Canadian team was when everyone thought they would get smoked. The Americans didn't score an offensive touchdown, our defense was very good. IIRC LB John Priestner (Western) was drafted by the Colts (Baltimore) and went to camp on the strength of his performance at this game. With that I give you...

Can-Am Bowl I, 1/8/78
Tampa Sports History, January 14, 2008

On Jan. 8, 1978, Tampa Stadium played host to an event unprecedented in the history of football. The Can-Am Bowl, an All-Star game pitting collegians from the United States and Canada against each other, was especially unique since the game was played by Canadian football rules. For one afternoon, top seniors from major American universities would play football against the top seniors and underclassmen from Canada. The city of Tampa, of all places, served as the battleground to finally settle the age-old debate of football superiority between these two border nations.

Actually, the disparity in football talent between Canada and the United States could not have been greater at the time. Team Canada just hoped to field a competitive team, while the American athletes hoped to avoid the humiliation of an upset loss to the Canadians. Jack Zilly, coach of Team USA, cautioned against underestimating the team from Canada, but added, “It would be embarrassing to go back to Tennessee, Alabama, Stanford, or where the players are from, if you have been beaten."

Increasing the angst of the Americans were the quirky Canadian rules. For example, teams would have only three downs to gain 10 yards, meaning "every offensive play in Canada is designed to go 10," according to Sam Bailey, the Can-Am Bowl’s executive director and former University of Tampa head coach.

Additionally, the field would be lengthened from 100 to 110 yards and widened from 53 to 60 feet. Larger fields meant larger teams as well, with the addition of one offensive and defensive player to each side of the line of scrimmage. It wasn't uncommon for a Canadian offense to feature four -- yes, four -- running backs on a given play. Throw in unlimited motion in the backfield, and one can imagine the headaches experienced by American coaches readying a game plan for their team of collegians, -- who had played football their entire lives by completely different rules.

"With the rules as we have them set up," Bailey said, "it should make for a good, competitive game, the kind fans like to see. After all, football is football."

In a surprise to no one, the United States prevailed over the Canadians by a score of 22-7. Rather than being a wide-open shootout, however, the game was a defensive struggle. In fact, Team Canada, not the U.S., was be responsible for the only offensive touchdown of the game, a 1-yard run in the fourth quarter to avoid a shutout and cap the game's scoring.

The U.S. put up the majority of its points on a pair of interceptions returned for touchdowns. In the second quarter, Vanderbilt cornerback Bernard Wilson picked off a pass by Acadia University’s Bob Cameron and returned it 44 yards for the game's first touchdown. Wilson’s score followed a U.S. field goal and two "rouges," one-point bonuses awarded to the kicking team for tackling a returner in his own end zone on a kickoff or punt. Colorado State punter Mike Deutsch recorded two rouges in a span of two minutes and two seconds for the Americans.

"On the first rouge, I didn't know at first I had scored a point," he said. "I knew something had happened and then they flashed the point on the scoreboard. All I could say was wow.”

Georgia linebacker Ben Zambiasi added to the Americans’ lead with a 10-yard interception return for a touchdown in the third quarter. The extra point put the U.S. ahead 22-0. Coincidentally, Zambiasi went on to have a successful 11-year career in the professional Canadian Football League. An eight-time CFL All-Star who played in four Grey Cup championship games and won one, he was inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame in 2004. And Cameron, Canada’s beleaguered quarterback that day, eventually won three Grey Cups and still holds the CFL record for most career punting yards.

Another interesting tidbit about the game was not apparent at the time, but the American squad featured two athletes who became well-known to Tampa football fans: Missouri’s Jim Leavitt and Bruce Allen from the University of Richmond. Leavitt, now head coach at the University of South Florida, made his mark in college as a linebacker. Allen, son of Hall of Fame Redskins and Rams coach George Allen, shared punting duties for the U.S. squad and connected on field goals of 23 and 25 yards.

Twenty-five years later, however, the game is more likely to be remembered for the steady downpour of rain than for any on-field performance. An 11,000-strong crowd attended the game, but by the end the rain had driven away all but a few thousand -- mostly Canadian -- diehards.

"What do I remember most about the game? The rain was the biggest problem," Sam Bailey recently recalled. "It wasn't totally unsuccessful, but it didn't do as well as we thought we could."

The game continued in various incarnations for three years after the first Can-Am Bowl, eventually turning into an exhibition between two Canadian squads.

In 1986, however, Tampa Stadium became a big-time bowl destination as host of the Hall of Fame Bowl, the first major college bowl game to be played in Tampa.
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  #1236  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 1:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
I'm a big Raptors fan (I'm on the b-ball message boards as much I'm on SSP) and I can say, only anecdotally, that Raptors fans are younger and much more ethnically diverse than the Leafs, Argos or even Jays fanbases. Toronto has a massive (and rapidly growing) immigrant population, and generally those kids don't have the family history steeped in hockey culture that a typical nth generation Canadian kid does. This generation comes from places where sports are played with a ball and some friends, not ice and skates. That's why they're being drawn to basketball and soccer.

]
I think you're absolutely right, but although I have nothing against basketball (which also happens to have been invented by a Canadian), it is symptomatic of a certain ''integration failure'' for lack of a better term.

Things change and evolve, and there is nothing wrong with basketball and soccer, but the truth is that most of our country's team sports culture is related to hockey (and to some degree Canadian football), and that's also where most Canadians happen to be at with respect to their sporting loyalties.

I don't have an issue with these kids liking basketball, but it's an odd evolution if a significant number of them have the attitude that hockey sucks, or ''hockey? WTF is that?'' even. Something which would mean there is a bit of disconnect that is gathering steam.

So basketball, sure. But it would be nice if some of them had an interest in hockey too.
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  #1237  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 1:36 AM
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Canadian football - Rita McNeil

Hockey - Anne Murray

Soccer - Shakira

Basketball - Rihanna
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  #1238  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 2:01 AM
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I'm not really a big basketball fan... I attend a NBA game every other year or so, and might watch about one or two games a year on TV. However, I don't see the popularity of basketball among youth in big cities (particularly among non-white or immigrant kids) to be any kind of major threat to the established sports order in Canada and I welcome its presence as an outlet for kids looking to pursue a sport.

I grew up in pretty diverse neighbourhood where basketball was pretty popular among that cohort. While I think it had to partly with the fact that basketball is very prominent in hip hop culture which is obviously a driving force in popular tastes among kids and young adults, I think the bigger factor is the accessibility of basketball. Hockey requires a huge outlay of cash for equipment and registration fees that is often beyond the means of a blue collar immigrant family. In addition, youth hockey leagues demand a lot of families... pressure-packed tryouts for elite teams, very inconvenient ice times, lots of tournament and travel expectations... you don't really have any of that in junior high or high school basketball, let alone pick up basketball.

The minor hockey system seems set up to breed a tiny handful of NHLers instead of making the game as accessible as possible to the widest number of boys and girls interested in taking up the sport. No surprise that many kids have no interest in that approach to the game.
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  #1239  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 2:02 AM
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Canadian football - Rita McNeil

Hockey - Anne Murray

Soccer - Shakira

Basketball - Rihanna
That is absurd.
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  #1240  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2014, 2:08 AM
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That is absurd.
Obviously that's not what I think. But it seems like that perception is out there in certain circles.
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