The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

What the Climate Movement Is Getting Wrong on Earth Day: The “it’s not you” approach might be good politics, but the Covid epidemic is showing it’s also wrong.

This one (from another SSP thread) was a very interesting read. Hammers home what's obvious: it IS us.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You're happy that we're losing the fight against climate change?

We most definitely aren't losing the fight, if using Classic SSP Projection-In-Future logic to judge that: the emissions trend of last few months, when extrapolated, show that the Climate Problem gets thoroughly fixed even faster than Milton overtakes Shanghai.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Ah. Those Faux News talking points are out in full strength today.

The great news is that opinions are irrelevant and the market moves quite nicely based on prices alone. Like peaker plants being replaced by giant batteries for example. No amount of FUD and Fake News will stop progress when there's $$$ on the line.

This blip in oil demand? It's going to happen again in a decade as EVs actually start displacing oil consumption. And no amount of bullshit will change that future.

Fake news? because it doesn't fit your narrative? Why is it that I provide a lengthy post with legitimate talking points, you completely disregard those points and instead respond with a condesending llegitmate rebutal, that does not touch on the points that were made. Instead you respond that it is "fake news".

I agree with you. Money talks. I look forward to the day oil crashes and I can afford my electric vehicle, sourced from environmentally destructive methods and materials, that is still dependent on fossil fuels. The point of the movie is that "green energy" is not so green, billions of dollars are spent on the image of clean technology, when in fact that green energy is completely reliant on non-renewables.

On that topic, as gasoline, jet fuel and diesel are the primary products of oil, when those products no longer have a demand, where should we expect prices to go for secondary and tertiary products from oil... for example, items such as vehicle bodies, made of some form of plastic sourced from oil... does the cost of that vehicle body now become more expensive, as the cost of producing oil will remain the same, yet the cost recovery per barrel of oil is now missing half of what used to make up that cost (i.e. gasoline)... should we expect prices of secondary and tertiary increase to make up that cost?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Fake news? because it doesn't fit your narrative?

No. Fake news because you can't back up any of that bullshit with credible non-politicized sources.

But, hey, I get it. Oil is so crucial to your self-identity at this point, that it's like asking a 1910 blacksmith about these weird machines that Henry Ford has started selling lately.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

No. Fake news because you can't back up any of that bullshit with credible non-politicized sources.

But, hey, I get it. Oil is so crucial to your self-identity at this point, that it's like asking a 1910 blacksmith about these weird machines that Henry Ford has started selling lately.

It was presented in the documentary. That's the back up. Take it up with Michael Moore, not me.

Don't pretend that oil is not crucial to your self-identity. For you to think otherwise is completely naive. In as much as it does for me, your life and lifestyle completely depend on it. Everything your social system provides to you is a large part because of the energy industry.

You obviously missed the point I made too that I look forward to the day I can drive an EV. Take your head out of your ass and open your eyes my friend. I don't have a specific narrative, I'm open to social progression, including progressing in limiting our environmental footprint. FYI, I used to work for a solar energy company. I'll say it again... pull your head out of your ass.

Care to address any of the specific talking points now?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lio45

This one (from another SSP thread) was a very interesting read. Hammers home what's obvious: it IS us.

It absolutely is us. And it's why I get pissed that even the left doesn't want to have an honest discussion of what it would take to address climate change. The most impactful policy being a serious effort to curb urban sprawl by increasing density and the use of public transportation. Instead we have governments cutting cheques to suburbanites, helping make their EV commutes cheaper while scrapping tax incentives for transit use.

The impacts of climate change are becoming more obvious though. And that means massive financial liabilities that will drive change. From the reinsurers refusing to cover property insurance in some parts to institutional investors increasingly divesting from sectors they consider to be climate liabilities, I think the financial incentives are lining up nicely for massive change in the next decade.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

It was presented in the documentary. That's the back up. Take it up with Michael Moore, not me.

Don't pretend that oil is not crucial to your self-identity. For you to think otherwise is completely naive. In as much as it does for me, your life and lifestyle completely depend on it. Everything your social system provides to you is a large part because of the energy industry.

You obviously missed the point I made too that I look forward to the day I can drive an EV. Take your head out of your ass and open your eyes my friend. I don't have a specific narrative, I'm open to social progression, including progressing in limiting our environmental footprint. FYI, I used to work for a solar energy company. I'll say it again... pull your head out of your ass.

Care to address any of the specific talking points now?

Lots of words. Not one link to a credible source. Why am I not surprised?

Maybe critical thinking and writing is taught differently out West....

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Lots of words. Not one link to a credible source. Why am I not surprised?

Maybe critical thinking and writing is taught differently out West....

Sorry I didn't mention the title of the documentary. Its called Planet of the Humans...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Enlighten yourself...

I presented so many talking points up for discussion... maybe you just can't read, or logically process the points I presented, which brings you back to mud slinging responses.


Care to address any of the talking points I presented?

Stop making yourself look like a complete dummy.

[Jalapeño Chips]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Sorry I didn't mention the title of the documentary. Its called Planet of the Humans...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Enlighten yourself...

I presented so many talking points up for discussion... maybe you just can't read, or logically process the points I presented, which brings you back to mud slinging responses.


Care to address any of the talking points I presented?

Stop making yourself look like a complete dummy.

Planet of the Humans is a good documentary. To me the main point is that eternal growth and consumption is the problem, and not necessarily energy.
However, my opinion is that it misses the whole point on Nuclear, specially with fusion reactors on the horizon. It will be dominating and supplying energy needs in the future, and yes, electric vehicles will be the norm then. But, I agree with the other main points in the film that alternative energy is just as destructive. We have to cull our ever increasing need for growth.

Here is a promising local Vancouver company developing fusion reactors:

https://generalfusion.com/

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by Jalapeño Chips

Planet of the Humans is a good documentary. To me the main point is that eternal growth and consumption is the problem, and not necessarily energy.
However, my opinion is that it misses the whole point on Nuclear, specially with fusion reactors on the horizon. It will be dominating and supplying energy needs in the future, and yes, electric vehicles will be the norm then. But, I agree with the other main points in the film that alternative energy is just as destructive. We have to cull our ever increasing need for growth.

Here is a promising local Vancouver company developing fusion reactors:

https://generalfusion.com/

I completely agree with all your points!

At this point in time, with the technology we already have, nuclear has to be part of the solution...

[MolsonExport]

Fusion reactors are only 5 years away. Five years ago, they were five years away. Five years before that, they were five years away. Five years before that, they were five years away. In five years, they will be only 5 years away.

[Jalapeño Chips]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Fusion reactors are only 5 years away. Five years ago, they were five years away. Five years before that, they were five years away. Five years before that, they were five years away. In five years, they will be only 5 years away.

Sure, but whatever. We don't have to wait. We have excellent nuclear technologies now, let's build more.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Fusion reactors are only 5 years away. Five years ago, they were five years away. Five years before that, they were five years away. Five years before that, they were five years away. In five years, they will be only 5 years away.

There's a reason it's taking forever.

Huge chart, so linked rather than embedded:
http://shorturl.at/ARXZ8

[ssiguy]

Despite the ultra-low gas prices, I think the current economic depression with the corresponding plunge in GHG emissions and general pollution will motivate countries to accelerate their economies away from fossil fuels.

This will be especially true in the most populated countries like China and India where the only good news out of this whole virus is that people can actually start breathing again. We saw this with the Beijing Olympics where the city put huge restrictions on car usage 2 weeks before and during the Games to clean up the air and it worked. In fact it worked so well that most citizens wanted the restrictions made permanent. The city didn't do it completely but they did make a few of the restrictions permanent and are still in effect.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Stop making yourself look like a complete dummy.

There's only one of us doing this. And it ain't me.

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Care to address any of the talking points I presented?

Absolutely.

Let's start with which parts of the movie made these claims:

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I agree... we completely have the ability to run the entire globe on "renewable" energy right now.... but it is completely unrealistic and not dependable.

Originally Posted by Hackslack

There is still a significant CO2 output that goes into making solar panels and windmills, with a very short lifespan compared to FF fired plants.

Originally Posted by Hackslack

will ultimately convert people from using ICE vehicles to electric vehicles, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is a healthy switch, with respect to the environment.

If you want to go through and provide timestamps on when these claims were made that would be great.

Where did the movie advocate for this:

Originally Posted by Hackslack

so the question may be, why not continue to enhance the efficiency of FF, instead of dumping billions into "green energy", all while still 100% dependent on FF?

But we know where your talking points are going..... "Fuck the planet. I gotta sell more oil."

Originally Posted by Hackslack

There is SO much information out there of the steps made by Canadian energy companies that have made huge investments and proven technologies that tangibly reduces Canadian carbon footprint,

Those efforts have been so effective that the sectors total emissions have gone up. Incidentally, if you actually watched the movie, your bullshit greenwashing of these sectors was a key talking point.

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Long winded, I know...

Indeed. More of the hot air you want the rest of us to live with.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Jalapeño Chips

Planet of the Humans is a good documentary. To me the main point is that eternal growth and consumption is the problem, and not necessarily energy.
However, my opinion is that it misses the whole point on Nuclear, specially with fusion reactors on the horizon. It will be dominating and supplying energy needs in the future, and yes, electric vehicles will be the norm then. But, I agree with the other main points in the film that alternative energy is just as destructive. We have to cull our ever increasing need for growth.

Here is a promising local Vancouver company developing fusion reactors:

https://generalfusion.com/

As someone who actually did grad level work on the topic, mixed feelings about the documentary. It's more sensationalism than facts. Some of their "facts" were just completely out of date.

The author/proponent featured (not producer Michael Moore necessarily) seems to be pushing this bizarre idea of absolutely no industrial processes and manufacturing. This is starting to verge on a strawman argument where apparently anything green can't just be better but must be 100% zero impact on the environment.

I get the criticism of the viewpoint that tech can save everything. I have the same viewpoint. But of course, they then do the classic far left environmentalist view of pushing Malthusian nonsense combined with constant attacks on capitalism. These aren't viewpoints supported by anybody the least bit literate on the science and the economics.

There was also strange focus on biomass as apparently not being green because it burns trees. And the criticism was entirely focused on the burning apart. Apparently somebody doesn't understand the carbon cycle and why biomass is considered carbon neutral. Are there legitimate criticisms about sustainable forestry to be made? Absolutely. Deciding that any form of combustion is greenwashing? That's just scientific illiteracy.

WRT nuclear, the only thing seriously holding back nuclear at this point is cost.



Source: https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2019

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Jalapeño Chips

Planet of the Humans is a good documentary. To me the main point is that eternal growth and consumption is the problem, and not necessarily energy.
However, my opinion is that it misses the whole point on Nuclear, specially with fusion reactors on the horizon. It will be dominating and supplying energy needs in the future, and yes, electric vehicles will be the norm then. But, I agree with the other main points in the film that alternative energy is just as destructive. We have to cull our ever increasing need for growth.

Here is a promising local Vancouver company developing fusion reactors:

https://generalfusion.com/

Nuclear fusion will be so fucking dope. I really I hope I see them adapted for space travel within my lifetime. Elon Musk is already planning the colonization of Mars within the next 30 years. Having fusion power (constant acceleration drive technology) would not only shorten the trip from four months to a few weeks, but would also generate low gravity on the decks of the ship for the first half of the trip, before the flip and deceleration burn. This would also reduce the health impacts of zero G and allow for faster recovery upon landing, as well as vastly larger payloads and number of colonists.

Of course, we would have to develop a drive system compatible with electric output, but Ion drives have been in development for a while with promising results

#nerd

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Elon Musk is already planning the colonization of Mars within the next 30 years. I really I hope I see them adapted for space travel within my lifetime.

Well part of that depends directly on you, given that we on this board had to talk you out of committing suicide not too long ago.

[MolsonExport]

With Milton's exponential growth rate, it is a cinch that the GTA will eventually sprawl to Arabia Terra and Amazonis Planitia

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

With Milton's exponential growth rate, it is a cinch that the GTA will eventually sprawl to Arabia Terra and Amazonis Planitia

And when it does, even those distant parts of the GTA will occasionally be warmer than Maple Creek (which IIRC hit something like −46°C recently - it was either this winter or last one).

("Colder than Alaska" definitely does not have the same ring to it as "Colder than Mars!"...)