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  #12241  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 3:39 AM
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Originally Posted by allh View Post
Agreed Blah. Also, anyone know what companies 95 state will be leasing to? I'm curious.
Permits for interior work have been filed for UBS, LDS Meetinghouse, Conservice, and Stoel Rives.

There are probably more in earlier stages of planning.
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  #12242  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 4:05 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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Not a chance Salt Lake City reaches 300,000 by 2030. I think absolute best case scenario would be 250,000. But otherwise I agree blah, Salt Lake City is turning the corner into becoming a more urban-minded city.

Also good to see you posting on here again!
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  #12243  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 9:27 AM
Blah_Amazing Blah_Amazing is offline
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Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post
Not a chance Salt Lake City reaches 300,000 by 2030. I think absolute best case scenario would be 250,000. But otherwise I agree blah, Salt Lake City is turning the corner into becoming a more urban-minded city.

Also good to see you posting on here again!
Thanks.

Yeah, it's really unknown at this point - it really depends on how quickly the supply chain issues can be resolved in the US economy, cause this has been causing insane delays up and down the housing market.

That said, here is how I got my numbers.

By my current count, there are:
7,534 residential units under construction in Salt Lake City.
13,484 residential units are planned in Salt Lake City.
A total of 21,018 units planned or under construction, which is insane!

For perspective of rapid growth of projects in the city, back in February 2021 we were at 5,841 units under construction and 8,576 units planned for a total of 14,417 units
Thats up a total of 6,601 units from just 10 months ago, not including all the projects that have completed throughout this year.



This year (2021) we have seen the completion of nearly 2,500 units.
Next year (2022) around 5,200 to 5,600 units are scheduled to complete.
In 2023 that will rise again to 6,000 and appears to peak in 2024 with around 6,500 units scheduled to complete.

In the chart below, I thought I would extrapolate out the 2030 population based on if we can continue building at the currently planned 2024 completion rate of around 6,500 units.

It is important to note that this may or may not happen. This year we have had insane levels of delays that has pushed thousands of units down the development schedule into 2022 and 2023. Its hard to say if we will see further delays or project cancellations. Supporting 6,500 unit annual completion has never been done before and it may prove to be too difficult for our current labor pool to be able to support (resulting in more delays).



The chart above shows how the construction of these units may impact the population, depending on the number of people per unit.

By my guess, the population growth will be somewhere between 1.5 and 2.0 people per unit, likely close to 1.60 to 1.65 people per unit.

Here is my reasoning:
A majority of housing units getting built lately are studio or 1-bedroom units. These are designed for either a single individual or a couple so they will likely be below 1.5 people per unit, but not quite 1.0 either, since couples will raise that average.
2-bedroom+ units will likely have at or above a 2 person average, since many people in these units are couples, small families, or have roomates.

This means it is likely the overall average people per unit is somewhere close to the middle of 1 and 2 people each.

Assuming we can meet and maintain the 6,500 units a year after 2024, 1.5 people per unit (the middle section of the chart) would increase Salt Lake City's population from 200,831 in 2020 to 290,081 people in 2030.

Salt Lake's population will also see a bump next year with the completion of the prison, which will be a 1-time boost to the city's census population for 2030 of a couple thousand people.

Again this all depends on if the supply chain issues can be resolved in the upcoming year and if buildings actually start completing on or closer to on-schedule.




All that said, I think 250,000 is more a floor than a ceiling for the 2030 population.

Let's say next year (2022) we fail to complete the 5,200-5,600 units that are currently planned to complete and build only 5,000 units. Lets go further and say that is where construction peaks and we maintain 5,000 units a year for the rest of the decade.

With 1.5 people per unit, the population would be approximately: 272,081 people by 2030

So I'd say 270,000 by 2030 is a good conservative estimate, barring of course an unexpected collapse in construction, the economy, or society.
We will know more in the next 2 years on how the rest of the decade is likely to play out based on if we see the expected jumps in annual residential unit completions or if we just see more delays.

Last edited by Blah_Amazing; Dec 14, 2021 at 10:00 AM.
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  #12244  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 10:32 AM
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Anyone want to care to speculate on what this means:

"As the project has progressed, we have learned a great deal about the condition of the temple and its surroundings."

"It is anticipated that the temple and its surroundings will be completed in 2025."


To me this seems like an omen that the project is facing problems. Which is fine. I'd rather they go slow and do the project correctly. But I can't help but think a stone-on-stone building is going to have a lot of problems.
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  #12245  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 12:40 PM
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So they announce that Temple Square will be complete in 2025. Wasn’t this originally supposed to take 2 years and be complete at the end of this year? I can imagine covid pushing it back a year… but why has this project ballooned from 2 years to 6 years?
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  #12246  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
So they announce that Temple Square will be complete in 2025. Wasn’t this originally supposed to take 2 years and be complete at the end of this year? I can imagine covid pushing it back a year… but why has this project ballooned from 2 years to 6 years?
I think I remember they said 4-5 years to complete. When did the project start?

NVM... Just read the article
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  #12247  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 2:13 PM
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Blah_Amazing, So good to have you back!!
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  #12248  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
Anyone want to care to speculate on what this means:

"As the project has progressed, we have learned a great deal about the condition of the temple and its surroundings."

"It is anticipated that the temple and its surroundings will be completed in 2025."


To me this seems like an omen that the project is facing problems. Which is fine. I'd rather they go slow and do the project correctly. But I can't help but think a stone-on-stone building is going to have a lot of problems.
I think this project has been even more immense and complicated than the Capitol Building rebuild and seismic upgrade. Probably much more complicated than City Creek.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post
Not a chance Salt Lake City reaches 300,000 by 2030. I think absolute best case scenario would be 250,000. But otherwise, I agree blah, Salt Lake City is turning the corner into becoming a more urban-minded city.

Also good to see you posting on here again!
I think there's a good chance though that the greater Salt Lake City MSA/CSA will reach 3 million plus by 2030. Also, many of the metro nodes like Millcreek, Murray, Midvale and Provo will become a lot denser.

Also, A big ditto to what Blah_Amazing posted on the population gains of Salt Lake City proper.

Last edited by delts145; Dec 14, 2021 at 3:48 PM.
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  #12249  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
So they announce that Temple Square will be complete in 2025. Wasn’t this originally supposed to take 2 years and be complete at the end of this year? I can imagine covid pushing it back a year… but why has this project ballooned from 2 years to 6 years?
It was supposed to be done in 2024. Extended by a year.

Last edited by Reeder113; Dec 14, 2021 at 3:41 PM.
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  #12250  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 3:40 PM
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Since we're on the topic, here's a few more pics of Temple Square construction:















https://churchofjesuschristtemples.o...e/photographs/
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  #12251  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 4:01 PM
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Some new info and photos of the Astra site from u/Nathan96762 on the subreddit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by u/Nathan96762
They have been putting in these concrete columns in the ground along the pawn shop, it would seem they cut the protruding slab. Shoring around the edge seems to be about done. They are digging in utilities from 200S Next steps should be digging out a bit of a hole, piles and foundations.






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  #12252  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 4:22 PM
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For those of you who are locals and interested, evidently there are still Christmas lights around Temple Square, and there are windows that let you see into the the construction area, giving you a pretty good view of what's going on. Haven't been down there yet myself, but there's stuff to see.

The visitors centers on the south end of the block are going to be mostly underground, I don't know if that is making things more complicated or not.
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  #12253  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jedikermit View Post
For those of you who are locals and interested, evidently there are still Christmas lights around Temple Square, and there are windows that let you see into the the construction area, giving you a pretty good view of what's going on. Haven't been down there yet myself, but there's stuff to see.

The visitors centers on the south end of the block are going to be mostly underground, I don't know if that is making things more complicated or not.
Anyone who can should stop by temple square at least once to see the temple construction. It's amazing what they're doing, and how much work is going into it.
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  #12254  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 4:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePusherMan View Post
I like it from a design perspective. Not stoked that it’s a church not even a block temple square. Wouldn’t mind so much if it didn’t mean that no bar or restaurant can serve alcohol within 600 feet of this corner now. Churches should have to go through the local consent process in D1 just like bars have to do in any other zone other than D1.
Agreed. Any community location that limits other cultural uses should be subject to Conditional Use limitations as they affect real economics of everything around them.
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  #12255  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 4:57 PM
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The Cheesecake Factory is easily less than 500 ft from 95 State. Brio and the forthcoming Capital Grille are also less than 600 ft. Are you telling me that these places can't serve alcohol anymore?
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  #12256  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 5:09 PM
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Might they have a grandfather clause? Like...they were there first? Is that a thing with liquor laws?
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  #12257  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
The Cheesecake Factory is easily less than 500 ft from 95 State. Brio and the forthcoming Capital Grille are also less than 600 ft. Are you telling me that these places can't serve alcohol anymore?
No, of course not. The law says that bars can’t be within 600 feet and restaurants that serve within 300 feet. All previous establishments would be unaffected and grandfathered in.

https://abc.utah.gov/licenses-permit...-restrictions/

Last edited by mattreedah; Dec 14, 2021 at 5:13 PM. Reason: Add link
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  #12258  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mattreedah View Post
No, of course not. The law says that bars can’t be within 600 feet and restaurants that serve within 300 feet. All previous establishments would be unaffected and grandfathered in.

https://abc.utah.gov/licenses-permit...-restrictions/
Okay well, that's very different from what the previous comment said. Thanks for the link. The distinction between straight line distances and pedestrian distances is worth knowing about too.
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  #12259  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 5:18 PM
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As a member of the Tab Choir, I've been blessed to see a lot of the behind the scenes views of the construction. One of the unplanned changes was the demolition of the North Visitors Center. The men's dressing room is currently under the lawn between the Tabernacle and the now-demoed north visitors center. They've made us temporary dressing rooms over in the Conference Center as well as creating our Covid testing center in the CC garage. They've cut new elevator shafts that will service the new patron tunnel; it is unclear whether they will keep the old steep tunnel from Tabernacle down to L3 of the CC garage. Thanks to the advanced ventilation in the CC, we won't be performing in the Tabernacle for the foreseeable future... or at least until Covid passes. You really must come down and see the bath tub on the north side of the temple to get the full scope of the massiveness of this project! One of the views I haven't checked out is the lobbies of the 10th floor restaurants in the Joseph Smith Building.
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  #12260  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2021, 5:52 PM
JAMESEY271975 JAMESEY271975 is offline
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Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post
NIMBYs. Look at all of the public comments at the end of that document. That area of Sugarhouse is full of NIMBYs who are convinced that a few more townhomes are going to make the neighborhood unlivable. The Sugar House Community Council was also opposed to it.
No offense mate, and I'm all for development but your "a few more townhomes" comment is laughable. I've lived in Sugarhouse for 15 years -- have you seen the number of huge new apartment developments in the area in the last 5 years?

And it cracks me up how folks love calling other groups of people NIMBYs. That was thrown around when Sugarhouse objected to another homeless shelter in the middle of residential homes when crime in district 5 has risen exponentially compared to places like Utah county etc. Those areas, of course, wouldn't approve of a homeless shelter near them for love or money. I recall the mayor of one of those areas volunteering to build a shelter and said mayor was bombarded with outrage from the same folks who call Sugarhouse residents NIMBYs -- as they head off to church. The irony.
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