PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Milksteak]

Any theories on when/where the gentrification will stop or significantly slow down in Kensington/North Philly? Every CDR submission seems to have multiple proposals that are creeping further and further north and west, and further from the El....it seems like it's been steadily spreading for a decade. Great to see the revitalization, I'm wondering when it will eventually reach a breaking point as it seems like easy commuting into cc is becoming more difficult, and amenities aren't necessarily keeping up with the spread of new housing. Does it keep following the El or does it continue to fill in the gaps between the El and Broad Street line?

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

Any theories on when/where the gentrification will stop or significantly slow down in Kensington/North Philly? Every CDR submission seems to have multiple proposals that are creeping further and further north and west, and further from the El....it seems like it's been steadily spreading for a decade. Great to see the revitalization, I'm wondering when it will eventually reach a breaking point as it seems like easy commuting into cc is becoming more difficult, and amenities aren't necessarily keeping up with the spread of new housing. Does it keep following the El or does it continue to fill in the gaps between the El and Broad Street line?

It's beginning to move west, mostly because of Temple, but I'm sure that the BSL access is also part of it.

[iheartphilly]

Did anyone hear about this? Next to stadium. If realized, could spur more growth around stadium complex with residential/office and etc. The master plan is amazing, but the price tag is unbelievable. Where does people think this kind of money will come from?

https://myphillypark.org/what-we-do/capital-projects/fdr-park/

[summersm343]

Looks great! Long overdue. Make it happen.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Did anyone hear about this? Next to stadium. If realized, could spur more growth around stadium complex with residential/office and etc. The master plan is amazing, but the price tag is unbelievable. Where does people think this kind of money will come from?

https://myphillypark.org/what-we-do/capital-projects/fdr-park/

The Fairmount Park Commission should have a (well designed) vanity plate that you can opt into and pay extra for when you register your vehicle. The cost of the plate above and beyond what normally goes to PA would go to the Park Commission and be charged on a yearly basis. Maybe a small portion of it would go to a larger recreation/park fund for the state just to get buy in from the rural/conservative parts of the state.

Chicago started this years ago for its Park District. The plates were super cool and I recall a lot of cars had them.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

Any theories on when/where the gentrification will stop or significantly slow down in Kensington/North Philly? Every CDR submission seems to have multiple proposals that are creeping further and further north and west, and further from the El....it seems like it's been steadily spreading for a decade. Great to see the revitalization, I'm wondering when it will eventually reach a breaking point as it seems like easy commuting into cc is becoming more difficult, and amenities aren't necessarily keeping up with the spread of new housing. Does it keep following the El or does it continue to fill in the gaps between the El and Broad Street line?

Is Kensington technically considered true gentrification at this point? Unlike Point Breeze and North Philly, a majority of Kensington's development is happening on abandoned/empty land, and recent studies from (i believe it was) Pew Charitable Trust said displacement of locals in Kensington has been minimal compared to other areas, especially once factoring in the amount of mixed income housing the neighborhood has prioritized as revitalization occurs.

As for the development trends, it's definitely following the subway lines northward but also starting to spread east of Temple and north of NoLibs. Also, creeping down the riverwards into Port Richmond. But like you said, I think there's a breaking point on some of that development as Port Richmond and the area between Temple and Norris Square isn't accessible via subway. Same is true with Strawberry Mansion though. But to offset that, the development opportunity zones in combination with Trump tax cuts and 10 year tax abatements will continue to make those areas attractive for developers.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Did anyone hear about this? Next to stadium. If realized, could spur more growth around stadium complex with residential/office and etc. The master plan is amazing, but the price tag is unbelievable. Where does people think this kind of money will come from?

https://myphillypark.org/what-we-do/capital-projects/fdr-park/

i wouldnt expect any action in near future. This is a master plan, not the same as a funded project

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Is Kensington technically considered true gentrification at this point? Unlike Point Breeze and North Philly, a majority of Kensington's development is happening on abandoned/empty land, and recent studies from (i believe it was) Pew Charitable Trust said displacement of locals in Kensington has been minimal compared to other areas, especially once factoring in the amount of mixed income housing the neighborhood has prioritized as revitalization occurs.

As for the development trends, it's definitely following the subway lines northward but also starting to spread east of Temple and north of NoLibs. Also, creeping down the riverwards into Port Richmond. But like you said, I think there's a breaking point on some of that development as Port Richmond and the area between Temple and Norris Square isn't accessible via subway. Same is true with Strawberry Mansion though. But to offset that, the development opportunity zones in combination with Trump tax cuts and 10 year tax abatements will continue to make those areas attractive for developers.

going west towards temple. I think some people get a little carried away with the idea of what is "far" from the subway. If you live on 10th street you are 4 blocks from Broad Street. There are dozens of homes being built between 5th street and the elevated rail viaduct near Temple. There are at least 2 east/west bus lines running through that part of North Philly that connect you to the El OR the BSL. It's actually a great location. Not to mention Temple RR station is right there as well. I was on the route 3 bus recently riding from Temple Station towards Berks on the El and there was development along the entire route- mostly rowhouse size new construction

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by cardeza

going west towards temple. I think some people get a little carried away with the idea of what is "far" from the subway. If you live on 10th street you are 4 blocks from Broad Street. There are dozens of homes being built between 5th street and the elevated rail viaduct near Temple. There are at least 2 east/west bus lines running through that part of North Philly that connect you to the El OR the BSL. It's actually a great location. Not to mention Temple RR station is right there as well. I was on the route 3 bus recently riding from Temple Station towards Berks on the El and there was development along the entire route- mostly rowhouse size new construction

Fair enough on the proximity to transit commits. I, personally, don't think it's a big deal. There are some development barriers to that area between Temple and Norris Square like the industrial buildings on American, sewer system, etc. In the long run, that'll change especially with the American Ave improvements going on right now.

[TempleGuy1000]

I noticed the preschool/daycare is closer to being done at 22nd and Pine. The building looks good all cleaned up.



It was a parking garage with a little retail space on the corner before.

[jsbrook]

Pics of the demo progress week of 5/28/2019 for the condo going up at 262 S. 16th Street next to Monk's.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Is Kensington technically considered true gentrification at this point? Unlike Point Breeze and North Philly, a majority of Kensington's development is happening on abandoned/empty land, and recent studies from (i believe it was) Pew Charitable Trust said displacement of locals in Kensington has been minimal compared to other areas, especially once factoring in the amount of mixed income housing the neighborhood has prioritized as revitalization occurs.

As for the development trends, it's definitely following the subway lines northward but also starting to spread east of Temple and north of NoLibs. Also, creeping down the riverwards into Port Richmond. But like you said, I think there's a breaking point on some of that development as Port Richmond and the area between Temple and Norris Square isn't accessible via subway. Same is true with Strawberry Mansion though. But to offset that, the development opportunity zones in combination with Trump tax cuts and 10 year tax abatements will continue to make those areas attractive for developers.

Displacement is not an inherent feature of gentrification, but a bug. Albeit a common one that often comes with the territory. Gentrification is just sharp rises in average home prices and income in an area. If that can be done without displacement, whether because the area has lots of vacant lots or through relief programs like LOOP that help existing residents remain despite rising taxes and cost of living, all the better.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Pics of the demo progress week of 5/28/2019 for the condo going up at 262 S. 16th Street next to Monk's.

Wow, the pictures show how narrow the lot really is. Good to see this underway.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Wow, the pictures show how narrow the lot really is. Good to see this underway.

It seems/looks narrow, but it is 24'11, which is not too bad, and the internal footprint for the units is 22'11 across (lengthwise they are 109 ft for the full floor). I have the plans. And I measured myself just to be sure. Most of the units are full floors while some are bi-level.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

It seems/looks narrow, but it is 24'11, which is not too bad, and the internal footprint for the units is 22'11 across (lengthwise they are 109 ft for the full floor). I have the plans. And I measured myself just to be sure. Most of the units are full floors while some are bi-level.

I like the 30+ ft width for street level town homes, but about 25 ft. isn't bad at all.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Displacement is not an inherent feature of gentrification, but a bug. Albeit a common one that often comes with the territory. Gentrification is just sharp rises in average home prices and income in an area. If that can be done without displacement, whether because the area has lots of vacant lots or through relief programs like LOOP that help existing residents remain despite rising taxes and cost of living, all the better.

Not totally how I understood it to be. I thought gentrification was essentially the process of higher income people moving into a low income area and displacing them with development. So essentially, if people aren't displaced it's revitalization rather than gentrification.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Not totally how I understood it to be. I thought gentrification was essentially the process of higher income people moving into a low income area and displacing them with development. So essentially, if people aren't displaced it's revitalization rather than gentrification.

With the caveat that I don't think there is a universally agreed upon definition, not as I understand it. Gentrification is an influx, generally rapid, of more affluent residents from outside a neighborhood. It is a form of revitalization, but the key characteristic is an influx of the more affluent from outside existing neighborhoods while revitalization could also happen organically if the local neighborhood population sees a significant jump in wages (maybe a new largescale employer or successful anti-poverty efforts) without appreciable amounts of new higher income residents moving to a neighborhood. The latter is revitalization but not gentrification. And gentrification can, but need not, cause displacement as the below links show. At least as to homeowners. Helping low income renters in gentrifying neighborhoods is more challenging and success has generally been elusive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/...-paper_a-practitioners-summary.pdf?la=en

https://whyy.org/segments/philly-fed-hom...er-tax-delinquency-but-not-displacement/

https://nextcity.org/features/view/how-t...hood-is-gentrifying-without-displacement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2...-out-poor-people/?utm_term=.e2ed17f99ea8

[jsbrook]

Alterra's conversion of a parking garage on 16th Street just South of Pine to a 20-unit apartment proceeding apace:

https://alterraproperty.com/portfolio/the-peyton/



Here's the property in its former incarnation:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/414+S+...a738844e7!8m2!3d39.9455013!4d-75.1687201

I'd say the Peyton will deliver maybe by the end of summer.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

I like the 30+ ft width for street level town homes, but about 25 ft. isn't bad at all.

I prefer wider floor plans, myself. This is a condo, though. Not a townhome. So, most of the units don't have entryways and stairs that take up space. Instead, the elevator opens directly into the unit. The bi-level units that do have stairs otherwise make good use of the space. Moto did a really nice job of maximizing the layouts despite site constraints.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

With the caveat that I don't think there is a universally agreed upon definition, not as I understand it. Gentrification is an influx, generally rapid, of more affluent residents from outside a neighborhood. It is a form of revitalization, but the key characteristic is an influx of the more affluent from outside existing neighborhoods while revitalization could also happen organically if the local neighborhood population sees a significant jump in wages (maybe a new largescale employer or successful anti-poverty efforts) without appreciable amounts of new higher income residents moving to a neighborhood. The latter is revitalization but not gentrification. And gentrification can, but need not, cause displacement as the below links show. At least as to homeowners. Helping low income renters in gentrifying neighborhoods is more challenging and success has generally been elusive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/...-paper_a-practitioners-summary.pdf?la=en

https://whyy.org/segments/philly-fed-hom...er-tax-delinquency-but-not-displacement/

https://nextcity.org/features/view/how-t...hood-is-gentrifying-without-displacement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2...-out-poor-people/?utm_term=.e2ed17f99ea8

It's totally interesting; the definition seems to be evolving a bit too. When Ruth Glass came up with the concept of gentrification in 1964, she included both changes within the community with the outcome of displacement as her definition:

"One by one, many of the working class quarters have been invaded by the middle class - upper and lower ... Once this process of 'gentrification' starts in a district it goes on rapidly until all or most of the working class occupiers are displaced and the whole social social character of the district is changed"
https://sites.google.com/site/gg2wpdermotmitchell/history-and-explanation-of-gentrification

In an NPR interview a couple years back, she expressed regret about documenting that concept as she felt it's become overused and abused as people (specifically social justice advocates) began to separate the displacement aspect from the definition. She felt without displacement as part of "gentrification", it was simply revitalization or natural changing trends that city and nations experience. Her comments made me rethink the use of the word as not every form of development is gentrification unless there is proven negative impact on lower income or working class individuals. That's why I'm not sure we can technically classify Kensington as true gentrification yet as many of the parts that are revitalizing were former neighborhoods that had become almost entirely abandoned and with relatively low population density living in them, and the few people who were originals in those areas up to the point of the recent revitalization have remained which is different outcome from what we see in places like Point Breeze.

Anyways, enjoying the conversation. It's always interesting to learn from other people's perspectives.