Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Do you ever stop to think about how much visible minorities have to deal with, on an almost daily basis? Believe me, it is way, way worse and much more frequent.

I think there's some racism and challenges for visible minorities but living in Toronto for a majority of my life as a visible minority, there's not much to complain about. I've faced more prejudice in visits to my ancestral country I was born in than in Canada.

But of course I can't speak for everyone. Seems like to the extent there is racism, more of it is directed to Black and Indigenous groups, and I don't belong to either.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Some of the nice stuff francophones (and even allophones who have integrated with us) occasionally have to deal with while living in a city that is around 90% French-speaking!

https://twitter.com/lacombemathieu/s...34379171704842

Priceless nugget from the radio interview:

The complainant, who is Latin American and speaks perfect French but with a fairly strong Latino accent, was even told by the (North African?, according to him) owner or manager: "why the hell are you asking for French anyway, you don't even look like a French Canadian at all!"

2021 is such fun.

What is a French Canadian supposed to look like?

[kwoldtimer]

A bit like porn - you know it when you see it?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

A bit like porn - you know it when you see it?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I think there's some racism and challenges for visible minorities but living in Toronto for a majority of my life as a visible minority, there's not much to complain about. I've faced more prejudice in visits to my ancestral country I was born in than in Canada.

But of course I can't speak for everyone. Seems like to the extent there is racism, more of it is directed to Black and Indigenous groups, and I don't belong to either.

I can only assume that when Molson said "almost daily" he wasn't saying that each visible minority person was facing racial slights, affronts or attacks personally on a daily basis.

That said, in a diverse country of 38 million people, with millions of interactions every day, it's not impossible to believe that every day might see at least one or a few incidents.

For the record I don't think that francophones are treated with this level of extreme rudeness every day either.

I'd add that I've never witnessed a minority person getting yelled at with a "get the fuck outta my business" simply for being who they are, and none of my minority friends and acquaintances (most of whom are either Black or Arab) have ever recalled anything like that to me either.

[rousseau]

Fun article in the GM:

An influx of French immigrants to Quebec highlights a cultural shift ... and rift

The mother country has sent so many of her sons and daughters to its former colony lately that the Montreal area has become home to the the largest community of French expatriates outside of Europe. One neighbourhood, where the sound of French accents and the smell of French bread waft through streets formerly associated with Québécois joual and baked beans, is now nicknamed La Nouvelle-France.

Drawn by a cultural and economic openness they can’t find at home, many young French people have fallen in love with Quebec. While Canadians in the rest of the country tend to see the province as relatively European – with its bike lanes, walk-up apartments and large state – the French see it as almost Californian, a land of swimming pools, friendliness and jobs.

The province is full of space and domestic water use is cheap, so everyone really does seem to have a swimming pool. The first thing many French arrivals notice as their flights circle the Montreal suburbs are endless dots of chlorinated blue, according to the sisters Irène and Marielle Lumineau, authors of Icitte, a popular guidebook for the French in Quebec.

The most “North American” thing about Quebeckers is also the most difficult for French expats: their relationship to friends and family. The Lumineau sisters observe in their guidebook that Quebeckers are like avocados, soft and welcoming on the outside, but with a hard inner core. New French arrivals often find it’s hard to make friends, because Quebec social life seems to take place within tight circles of intimates, around family barbecues or by the side of those swimming pools, not over spontaneous after-work cocktails as in Paris or Marseille.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...Ks-dR2gSbpegng

I recall noting the seeming preponderance of swimming pools in Quebec on SSP several years ago! And I've never heard the "avocado" metaphor before. I wonder how apt it is?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Jeez, he looks a lot like someone I work with. And yes francophone lol. But Franco-Ontarian of course.

BTW, the guy's shirt in that pic matches the microphone!

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Fun article in the GM:

I recall noting the seeming preponderance of swimming pools in Quebec on SSP several years ago! And I've never heard the "avocado" metaphor before. I wonder how apt it is?

I've heard the phrase 'Seattle freeze' used in an American context from non-residents of the city trying to make a life there.

I wonder if the Brits have the same thing going on with us. Or vice-versa. Or even among other English-speaking Commonwealth countries. In a certain sense, it's hard to stay away from home when home is actually a pretty decent place to live. Eventually all that stuff - that residue of life, the people left behind, the ease of just 'fitting in' with conversations and life in general makes the call of home just more alluring.

If I had to make a guess as to who has it easiest to change countries, I'd wager that Anglo-Canadians/Americans and Aussies/Kiwis would have the easiest times with their respective counterparts. That makes sense, though. The cultural gulf isn't that big. Neither is the physical gulf.

I've met a few British ex-pats here. If they can find an anchor (i.e. a local spouse), it helps. Otherwise, I'd imagine it would be kind of a hard, long haul. Loneliness can try the soul, especially after the allure of somewhere new fades. Past a certain point in life, making real friends (and not just acquaintances) just gets harder. People get busy. Life happens.

In North America, the culture of independent living (the nuclear family vs. extended family, suburban living versus city living, friendly but distant with neighbours) could definitely be factors. I kind of wish the article would tease more of that out.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Fun article in the GM:



I recall noting the seeming preponderance of swimming pools in Quebec on SSP several years ago! And I've never heard the "avocado" metaphor before. I wonder how apt it is?

Gave this a bit of thought. I've never heard the "avocado" thing either. Couldn't find any references to it in French on Google.

As for the broader point, ie that it's tough for the French to make friends in Quebec, I'd posit a YMMV on that.

I've never heard anyone complain that Québécois purposefully avoided friendships with the French because they're French. And I have a number of friends, family members (through marriage), neighbours, acquaintances and colleagues who are French. So lots of different experiences.

Generally the French find Québécois to be way less uptight and more easygoing, in comparison to their own countrymen who tend to be quite highstrung and well, complicated.

There used to be a fairly strong subtext of anti-French sentiment in Quebec (the "maudit Français" stereotype) with bitterness over the abandonment of 1763 and modern-day condescension, but that's mostly faded away over the past 20 years or so. My kids don't even know that exists.

I'd also say that thewave46 is correct that some of them do go back given the connection with friends and family back home, and also that they're going back to a country that, for all its problems, is still a pretty nice first world place.

A similar share of Brits who move to Australia also end up going back home, and Australia is richer than Quebec and has a tropical-subtropical climate.

(I won't get into whether the UK is a nicer country than France to move back to.)

[JHikka]

https://www.tsn.ca/quebec-premier-se...yers-1.1722805

Quebec premier to announce plan to increase Quebec-born NHL players
The Canadian Press

MONTREAL — Faced with declining interest in hockey among young people in Quebec, Premier François Legault on Thursday unveiled a strategy to increase the number of Quebecers in the NHL — and to boost Quebecers' pride in their nation.

Legault announced a new committee, led by former NHL player Marc Denis, to find out why there are fewer young Quebecers interested in hockey compared with past generations and why fewer Quebec-born players are reaching the sport's highest levels.

"It's a committee of people who like hockey … who know hockey, who want hockey to do better in Quebec," Legault said.

The premier said the main goal of the committee is to increase the number of young people playing the game, but he said he was also concerned about the low number of Quebecers in the NHL, a figure the premier put somewhere between 30 and 50.

[kwoldtimer]

Oddest news of the week.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by JHikka

https://www.tsn.ca/quebec-premier-se...yers-1.1722805

Quebec premier to announce plan to increase Quebec-born NHL players
The Canadian Press

MONTREAL — Faced with declining interest in hockey among young people in Quebec, Premier François Legault on Thursday unveiled a strategy to increase the number of Quebecers in the NHL — and to boost Quebecers' pride in their nation.

Legault announced a new committee, led by former NHL player Marc Denis, to find out why there are fewer young Quebecers interested in hockey compared with past generations and why fewer Quebec-born players are reaching the sport's highest levels.

"It's a committee of people who like hockey … who know hockey, who want hockey to do better in Quebec," Legault said.

The premier said the main goal of the committee is to increase the number of young people playing the game, but he said he was also concerned about the low number of Quebecers in the NHL, a figure the premier put somewhere between 30 and 50.

first step would be getting rid of bergevin

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

first step would be getting rid of bergevin

He's a QC-born NHL staff and former NHL player - have to prioritize them while they're still around.

6-0 loss at home to the Pens last night, on that note.

[MolsonExport]

I miss the great old glory days of the Habs' dynasties in the 1970s. Most of the players were Canadian, and many were French-Canadian, including my favorite (and Aragorn's favorite), Guy Lafleur.


ctv

[esquire]

If anything it's the Atlantic provinces that should be pondering why their numbers are so low. Especially once you get outside NS.

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/prov...eer-stats.html

[JHikka]

Atlantic numbers have always been low and always really hovered around the same point.
1975: 12
1985: 15
1995: 11
2005: 19
2015: 21
Today: 16

Quebec, on the other hand...
1975: 84
1985: 75
1995: 97
2005: 92
2015: 53
Today: 51

It's not an election year, is it?

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I miss the great old glory days of the Habs' dynasties in the 1970s. Most of the players were Canadian, and many were French-Canadian, including my favorite (and Aragorn's favorite), Guy Lafleur.


ctv

I always wondered why he grew up a Habs fan. Was it a common thing for someone in Upstate NY to cheer for the Canadiens, or if he is an exception? I can’t imagine it is still a thing today with the restrictions with regard to the border, the Franco-American culture vanishing slowly but surely and the rise of patriotism, but there still appears to be a small stronghold of Habs fans holding the fort just across the border.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I always wondered why he grew up a Habs fan. Was it a common thing for someone in Upstate NY to cheer for the Canadiens, or if he is an exception? I can’t imagine it is still a thing today with the restrictions with regard to the border, the Franco-American culture vanishing slowly but surely and the rise of patriotism, but there still appears to be a small stronghold of Habs fans holding the fort just across the border.

He is a fan of the Montreal Canadiens and wore a Canadiens shirt underneath his costume throughout the filming of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.[39] During the 100th anniversary celebrations of the Montreal Canadiens, Mortensen introduced one of his idols, Guy Lafleur, to the crowd at the Bell Centre in Montreal.

wikipedia

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[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I always wondered why he grew up a Habs fan. Was it a common thing for someone in Upstate NY to cheer for the Canadiens, or if he is an exception? I can’t imagine it is still a thing today with the restrictions with regard to the border, the Franco-American culture vanishing slowly but surely and the rise of patriotism, but there still appears to be a small stronghold of Habs fans holding the fort just across the border.

He actually lived in Watertown, which isn't really that close to the border with Quebec. Though it's not far from Kingston.

I believe I've heard him say he got hooked on the Habs watching on Canadian TV stations beamed over the border.

Not sure if it was Hockey Night in Canada or La Soirée du Hockey he was watching. Kingston had a CBC station which would have shown HNIC - mostly the Leafs. It's also long had a repeater antenna (but no station) for the French CBC network, which would have been all Habs on Saturday night.

[MolsonExport]

Wow, what a send-off. What a hero
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