Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[someone123]

I think a larger stadium in Halifax might actually be easier to build because it will be more clearly differentiated from the Scotiabank Centre. A 10,000 person stadium would be like Scotiabank minus the roof.

The concert capacity would be larger than the seating capacity for sports games too. A stadium with 25,000 permanent seats may hold 30,000 for concerts. This would be a nice new addition to the mix of venues available in the Halifax area.

[someone123]

Sure. It's less convenient. But why is our representative attendee of an event in Halifax always someone driving down from New Brunswick? And isn't the fuss of getting from the hotel to Dartmouth Crossing (or just parking at the stadium) minor compared to the cost of driving 2-4 hours?

The bread and butter for the stadium will be the people living within about a 30 minute radius.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

Sure. It's less convenient. But why is our representative attendee of an event in Halifax always someone driving down from New Brunswick? And isn't the fuss of getting from the hotel to Dartmouth Crossing (or just parking at the stadium) minor compared to the cost of driving 2-4 hours?

The bread and butter for the stadium will be the people living within about a 30 minute radius.

So you admit it then! This will be a Halifax team for Halifax after all!!!

[esquire]

^ The bread and butter for pretty well every sports team is people who reside within an hour of the venue. Even in Sask it's mostly people from Regina in the stands. The people from Moose Jaw, North Battleford, Saskatoon, Kindersley or wherever help boost the numbers, but the team is built on Regina fan support.

The only exception that readily comes to mind (although I'm sure there may be one or two others) is the Packers, who have a substantial chunk of their season ticket base coming in from Madison and Milwaukee.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The bread and butter for pretty well every sports team is people who reside within an hour of the venue. Even in Sask it's mostly people from Regina in the stands. The people from Moose Jaw, North Battleford, Saskatoon, Kindersley or wherever help boost the numbers, but the team is built on Regina fan support.

The only exception that readily comes to mind (although I'm sure there may be one or two others) is the Packers, who have a substantial chunk of their season ticket base coming in from Madison and Milwaukee.

For the same fans regularly in the stands, yes, though you have the cyclical nature of various fans from outlying areas almost trading off in terms of regular attendance. I think they say 75-80% or so of season tickets are from the Regina area, but that still leaves a solid 5-6k of average game attendance based in further out reaches of the province.

Where you really see the difference though is in merchandise and tv viewership numbers. This is where the Rider's full provincial (and extra-provincial) reach becomes apparent. Regina alone wouldn't be able to support the viewership and merch sales the Rider's have. Merch sales help the Rider's bottom line (and sometimes the league's if they buy through various retailers instead of the Rider Store) and the tv viewership helps the whole league's bottom line by pushing up TSN numbers.

If an Atlantic team based in Halifax functions similarly, it would buoy (ooooo a seafaring pun) both the local team and the league as a whole... And it had a much larger base than Saskatchewan to begin with. The crux ends up being how they can properly tap into that Atlantic pride.

(As for Moose Jaw... It's not in the Regina CMA, but for stuff like Rider games, it may as well be; it's all of 45 mins away. Closer to Mosaic stadium than some reaches of other CMAs are to their respective stadiums). The Bombers have taken to staying out there during the Labour Day Classic as hotels in Regina tend to get rowdy, and fans like to try and make Bomber players a little short on sleep.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nathan

If an Atlantic team based in Halifax functions similarly, it would buoy (ooooo a seafaring pun) both the local team and the league as a whole... And it had a much larger base than Saskatchewan to begin with. The crux ends up being how they can properly tap into that Atlantic pride.

I don't think this would be difficult at all. There are no other major sports teams in Atlantic Caanda, and people in that region tend to love regional stuff. An example of this for clothing is East Coast Lifestyle.

If anything I think people underestimate how much support an Atlantic team would have by looking at the current population of the region. If there were an Atlantic CFL team there would be "expats" all over Canada buying their merchandise and watching their games.

[EpicPonyTime]

I don't know about 25K seats, but the stadium should definitely be able to hold that many people when you factor in party zones/patios/whatever gets millenials in the stadium nowadays.

The only issue with building small is the cost of expanding might disuade them from ever doing it. The CFL doesn't get the type of profit margins where teams can afford a quality stadium expansion; at best they'd end up with a monstrosity similar to Taylor Field.

[JHikka]

For Langford, it’s game on for stadium with 8,000 seats

Cleve Dheensaw / Times Colonist
MARCH 1, 2018 05:56 AM

Langford plans to expand Westhills Stadium to 8,000 seats, from 1,718, in what could be a game-changer for outdoor sports in Greater Victoria.

It would put the region in the capacity range of what would be required for the upcoming professional soccer Canadian Premier League, B.C. Lions exhibition CFL games, and for certain international games featuring the Canadian men’s and women’s soccer and rugby teams.

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/...ats-1.23188068

[MonctonRad]

Still 2,000 seats less than the Moncton Stadium, for a CMA 3x the size.

Canadian municipalities are so parsimonious......

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Still 2,000 seats less than the Moncton Stadium, for a CMA 3x the size.

Canadian municipalities are so parsimonious......

It's not the City of Victoria doing the expansion, it's Langford. Population 35,000.

Besides, like esquire said, it's not about the size of the local population. How many times a year does Moncton actually need 10,000 seats in their stadium? All I seem to recall filling the stadium are one-off events and special tournaments, and those don't happen every year. It wouldn't be any different with a 5,000 seat stadium.

[MonctonRad]

The Moncton Stadium did well for a number od special events (three CFL games, Womens World Cup & U18 Womens World Cup, IAAF Junior Track & Field Championships, Canadian Track & Field Championships x2 etc), but the facility was sadly underutilized last year.

The Moncton Stadium is begging for a tenant like a Premier League team, and although Soccer NB has been promoting this possibility, AFAIK there is no local ownership group chasing a franchise. Sad......

[esquire]

^ In fairness, it's about what the municipality needs as opposed to the size of the municipality.

Interesting that they're wedging it in so tight against the buildings at one end, that isn't leaving much room for future expansion.

The article mentions BC Lions exhibition games but I honestly wonder how much appeal that idea could have to the team... when you consider that a game at BC Place would likely have way more than 8,000 in attendance and without basically adding in the cost of a road game, I don't know why they'd ever opt to play in Victoria instead.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ In fairness, it's about what the municipality needs as opposed to the size of the municipality.

Interesting that they're wedging it in so tight against the buildings at one end, that isn't leaving much room for future expansion.

The article mentions BC Lions exhibition games but I honestly wonder how much appeal that idea could have to the team... when you consider that a game at BC Place would likely have way more than 8,000 in attendance and without basically adding in the cost of a road game, I don't know why they'd ever opt to play in Victoria instead.

What is the Lions' presence on the Island like? It would be worth it if it gets them some fans.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

What is the Lions' presence on the Island like? It would be worth it if it gets them some fans.

It might cost them less to just do something like a free ticket promo for Island residents. You know, spend $25 on groceries at Save On Foods on Vancouver Island and get a voucher for a free pair of Lions tickets, that kind of thing.

I know CFL preseason games aren't always the best attended events, but hell, even if the Lions drew as little as 15 thousand to theirs, they'd still generate a lot of revenue from concession spending and you wouldn't have to eat the costs of moving an inflated roster preseason team to what is essentially another road game.

[Acajack]

I understand the argument about whether a city really "needs" a stadium or not, but I just redid my annual search of the stadium situation in much of the developed and near-developed world, and by and large pretty much every city in the 300,000-500,000 range has a stadium that seats 20,000-30,000, often more.

Most cities in Moncton's size range have stadiums that seat around 15,000.

This includes countries with cold climates like ours BTW.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I understand the argument about whether a city really "needs" a stadium or not, but I just redid my annual search of the stadium situation in much of the developed and near-developed world, and by and large pretty much every city in the 300,000-500,000 range has a stadium that seats 20,000-30,000, often more.

Most cities in Moncton's size range have stadiums that seat around 15,000.

This includes countries with cold climates like ours BTW.

Canada's a little weird in that we're probably one of the only countries that doesn't have a legitimate domestic soccer league, though. We have a domestic football league but there's only one tier (well, two if you count university football) and it's not easy to get a team into the CFL. So that limits the need for stadiums to some degree.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ In fairness, it's about what the municipality needs as opposed to the size of the municipality.

Interesting that they're wedging it in so tight against the buildings at one end, that isn't leaving much room for future expansion.

The article mentions BC Lions exhibition games but I honestly wonder how much appeal that idea could have to the team... when you consider that a game at BC Place would likely have way more than 8,000 in attendance and without basically adding in the cost of a road game, I don't know why they'd ever opt to play in Victoria instead.

I think it only makes sense if the Lions held training camp there at the same time. There is some fan base on the island and I know they do market there but costs add up to travel by ferry, maybe get a hotel etc. If they can market to the island and increase TV numbers and sell some gear too, it overall may have a net positive result.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

I think it only makes sense if the Lions held training camp there at the same time. There is some fan base on the island and I know they do market there but costs add up to travel by ferry, maybe get a hotel etc. If they can market to the island and increase TV numbers and sell some gear too, it overall may have a net positive result.

When I was living on the Island I would go to a few games in Vancouver (When the Riders played them). Most of the times the games are played after 7pm so you would have to stay overnight (added cost). I think there was two times that I was able to attend a game and come back to the island after the game.
Once I was able to take public transport all the way from downtown Victoria to BC Place attend the game and come back again. All on the same day.

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

When I was living on the Island I would go to a few games in Vancouver (When the Riders played them). Most of the times the games are played after 7pm so you would have to stay overnight (added cost). I think there was two times that I was able to attend a game and come back to the island after the game.
Once I was able to take public transport all the way from downtown Victoria to BC Place attend the game and come back again. All on the same day.

This year's schedule has one Saturday 4pm game (Oct 6 v. Argos). Which means you can watch the game and catch the ferry back to the Island without an overnight stay. This should be the game heavily marketed to Island fans (Not just Victoria -- Nanaimo as well, given their very strong minor/junior football program).

If well-received, the Lions can ask for more Saturday 4pm dates on next year's schedule.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Steveston

This year's schedule has one Saturday 4pm game (Oct 6 v. Argos). Which means you can watch the game and catch the ferry back to the Island without an overnight stay. This should be the game heavily marketed to Island fans (Not just Victoria -- Nanaimo as well, given their very strong minor/junior football program).

If well-received, the Lions can ask for more Saturday 4pm dates on next year's schedule.

If the new Halifax team is to be seriously marketed as an Atlantic or Maritime team, it would make sense for them to have as many afternoon games as possible too. Moncton is the nearest city and we're still nearly three hours away from Halifax. For day-trippers, afternoon games would be a must.