PHILADELPHIA | Schuylkill Yards Future Phases | 1,095 - 375 FT | 70 - 28 FLOORS

[mcgrath618]

Do any of you REALLY think that Manhattan and DC are cleaner than Philly? Especially NYC. Both are big cities and are just as dirty as Philadelphia. JFK airport is practically in the middle of a swamp. I would argue that that's just as bad as your so-called "dirty industry."
As for the homeless, according to the Annual US Senate report on Homelessness, NYC and Washington DC have the worst homeless per capita.
I think a lot of us are taking this way too personally and we need to take a step back and look at what really happened. It's unlikely that Amazon was ever actually looking into anything other than NYC and DC. They just wanted better tax breaks.

[Vince_]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Do any of you REALLY think that Manhattan and DC are cleaner than Philly? Especially NYC. Both are big cities and are just as dirty as Philadelphia. JFK airport is practically in the middle of a swamp. I would argue that that's just as bad as your so-called "dirty industry."
As for the homeless, according to the Annual US Senate report on Homelessness, NYC and Washington DC have the worst homeless per capita.
I think a lot of us are taking this way too personally and we need to take a step back and look at what really happened. It's unlikely that Amazon was ever actually looking into anything other than NYC and DC. They just wanted better tax breaks.

Manhattan and DC are both way cleaner than Philly. Manhattan has trash cans on every corner and street sweepers that run frequently. It was in Philadelphia that Ben Franklin organized street sweeping 300 years ago and it is pathetic we have none now (outside of center city district).

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by Vince_

Manhattan and DC are both way cleaner than Philly. Manhattan has trash cans on every corner and street sweepers that run frequently. It was in Philadelphia that Ben Franklin organized street sweeping 300 years ago and it is pathetic we have none now (outside of center city district).

DC, yes; Manhattan, not so much.

I'm just glad we can put this charade to rest. It would have been awesome, yes, but it was unlikely from the start. We have a lot of good things going on in Philly and Schuylkill Yards is still a very attractive location. Amazon going to NY and DC is better for Philly than if it had gone anywhere else. Like I said, it'll hard to directly tie spillover effects to Amazon, but we should benefit nonetheless.

[Larry King]

The decision probably had more to do with ability to attract/retain talent than anything else. Amazon probably felt those markets worked best for the employees they want to hire.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

See my note to Urbanthusiast. Also, apologies if my earlier point was misconstrued to mean that that was the ONLY reason we weren't chosen (i thought that would go without saying? apparently not). BUt i do think you can draw a line from my broader point to a simplified thesis that is this: am i really going to invest in a city that doesn't seem to know (or care, or understand) how to invest in itself?

This response was to Brandywine Rocks that did imply the approach from the airport caused Bezos to immediately cross Philly off his list. I understand you don't believe the approach from the airport is THAT important but I still think you're placing way too much importance on it.

I mean you just said cleaning up our approach from the airport is necessary to demonstrate self worth and pride. I'm sorry but this is a factor that is never going to be factor in how much pride I have in my city, positive or negative.

I love Philadelphia, there is no place I'd rather live in America, but I'm a realist when it comes to Philly's issues, which are many. To me though, this is such a nothing of an issue. When you talk about run down neighborhoods on that drive, I hope that changes. But I hope that changes for the sake of the neighborhoods, not because I care at all about the view from a highway. There are just so many real problems, so many failures of government, so many things that could be done to make Philadelphia a tangibly better place to live for all of its residents as well as a better place work and to visit. I just don't think cleaning up the approach from the airport brings any jobs to Philly in and of itself and I don't think it makes anyone's life better.

Plus, there is also a part of me (perhaps an inately philly part of me) that thinks if anyone is really basing their view on Philly based on what the drive from the airport looks like, then they're a dumbass and I couldn't care less what they think. It's simply something I've truly never cared about when visiting another city.

Would I rather it be nicer? Sure! But at the end of the day, I don't view it as a priority.

[Tlphila]

Ahhhh this stings.. We are right in the god damn middle!!!!

[Frontst17]

Neither DC nor manhattan are any cleaner or dirtier than Philly. Areas like society hill are as clean as areas like Georgetown and lower managattan has just as much trash blowing around as center city. On top of that the drive into DC is equally rundown and depressing and the drive up to NY you’d think half of North Jersey is just a refinery. Hell a large chunk of Staten Island IS a literal dump. It’s about perception. We still have a perception that we can’t shake and is only starting to be realized as false or outdated by others. We’re talking about economic and political centers of the world. As mentioned previously we shouldn’t care about proximity to those places because people already prefer them

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

Hell a large chunk of Staten Island IS a literal dump.

Or was. That dump has been closed for years.


https://www.nycgovparks.org/park-fea...reshkills-park



Keith Michaels




Ironically, that closure could have led to Amazon setting up shop there...
https://www.silive.com/news/2018/08/...for_state.html
https://www.silive.com/news/2018/06/...lands_new.html

[Brandywine Rocks]

Originally Posted by allovertown

This response was to Brandywine Rocks that did imply the approach from the airport caused Bezos to immediately cross Philly off his list.

If you think SW Philly,26th Street,Point Breeze/Spring Garden urban disaster is a turn-on for Bezos and Amazon you are mistaken.

Image is a HUGE factor for Amazon and SW Philly doesn't fit the image they are looking for. Philadelphias apathy for upgrading infrastructure and general overall cleanliness is one of the main reasons why its 2nd tier and falling behind smaller upstarts in competitiveness.

Originally Posted by allovertown

Plus, there is also a part of me (perhaps an inately philly part of me) that thinks if anyone is really basing their view on Philly based on what the drive from the airport looks like, then they're a dumbass and I couldn't care less what they think.

They are not dumbasses. They are successful corporate execs running billion dollar businesses who can relocate their business anywhere they like. And until Philadlephia figures out they are never going to be a contender with a drabby insfrastructure setting out the 1960's they should never get their hopes up for a white whale like Amazon.

It is what it is. Philly is a content democratic run B-lister that probably does not even want to change.

[McBane]

I feel like NY's filth is a natural byproduct of extreme density - not only residents but the hundreds of thousands of workers and tourists who pour into the city daily. Philadelphia's trash problem stems from a culture of apathy (similar to how we approach local politics) combined with a lack of resources to tackle the issue (no street cleaning, public trash cans constantly overflowing). Outside of the core within the neighborhoods, is really where Philly's rep as Filthadelphia shines through - it's disgusting and sad how people have zero pride in where they live.

All that being said, I'm 99% sure neither our city's cleanliness nor the approach from the airport had any factor in Amazon's decision. But damn it to hell, I agree it's annoying to be right between the two locations that seem to have been chosen.

As I've said all along, hopefully the city leaders have learned that cutting taxes and regulatory hurdles are the key to attracting employer. However, I have a feeling that the city seems content relying on all the flashy marketing materials and the fact that we were a top 20 finalist.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Brandywine Rocks

If you think SW Philly,26th Street,Point Breeze/Spring Garden urban disaster is a turn-on for Bezos and Amazon you are mistaken.

Image is a HUGE factor for Amazon and SW Philly doesn't fit the image they are looking for. Philadelphias apathy for upgrading infrastructure and general overall cleanliness is one of the main reasons why its 2nd tier and falling behind smaller upstarts in competitiveness.

They are not dumbasses. They are successful corporate execs running billion dollar businesses who can relocate their business anywhere they like. And until Philadlephia figures out they are never going to be a contender with a drabby insfrastructure setting out the 1960's they should never get their hopes up for a white whale like Amazon.

It is what it is. Philly is a content democratic run B-lister that probably does not even want to change.

Didn't say it was a turn on, I said it was a non factor. I didn't say Amazon was run by dumbasses. I said anyone who is making any meaningful judgment on a city based on the drive from the airport is a dumbass. You've showed zero proof it mattered AT ALL to Amazon. Amazon could have passed on philly for roughly 1,000 more logical reasons.

Your political comment shows how much sense you have. Surely it's politics that held Philadelphia back, everyone knows DC and NYC have city governments packed with Republicans

[JohnIII]

We all love Philadelphia; that's good and because of this we all have views and they clearly come from a good place; that being said several topics are being discussed here so I'll give my views on them.

Philadelphia has a lot of infrastructure problems; as a matter of fact most older big cities do; New York wants a new tunnel under the Hudson; Paris needs a third airport and there's been some controversy where to put it so Philadelphia sadly isn't alone in this; the question is who will pay for it? When it comes to Philadelphia International Airport there are a lot of problems; new runways which were delayed, new appearance both externally and internally when it comes to the terminals; of course if an individual believes in Global Warming that is an issue as well because the airport is built on a marsh and only marginally above sea level. If we list the problem with the Philadelphia International Airport they are extensive.

In a perfect world since we are giving our views I'll give mine but sadly even though I think we all have great ideas I'm not sure how feasible they are to becoming literal or tangible. when you look at air traffic from an air traffic control point of view more flights are in the air around New York and Washington; the Philadelphia are is underserved along the entire East Coast the bright spots are New York, Washington and Atlanta. Philadelphia is an underserved market it appears and at some point Philadelphia will need another major airport other than Philadelphia International Airport; you can only extend the airport but so much and if Global Warming is taken serious we will need to build a new airport at some point no matter how we fix the airport up.

As for Amazon, I am perplexed as to why they picked Queens and Washington DC; both high tax areas and high cost of living.

[City Wide]

Seeing the landscaping plans for the airport area strike me as being fine, if money were no problem, but largely much to do about nothing. Landscaping needs to be tended to and cared for; does anyone think the City or the State or the airport itself, is going to be at all interested in ongoing years long maintenance and replacement? These plans for some reason remind me of the expensive and stupid light poles on N. Board St.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Seeing the landscaping plans for the airport area strike me as being fine, if money were no problem, but largely much to do about nothing. Landscaping needs to be tended to and cared for; does anyone think the City or the State or the airport itself, is going to be at all interested in ongoing years long maintenance and replacement? These plans for some reason remind me of the expensive and stupid light poles on N. Board St.

Seems a complete waste to me. Plenty of world class cities have ugly airports. Philadelphia International Airport operates as an enterprise fund of the City. The City’s enterprise fund for the Airport, the Aviation Fund, was created and authorized as part of the Fiscal 1974 Operating Budget Ordinance approved by City Council on June 7, 1973 and made effective July 1, 1973. The Aviation Fund is self-supporting, using aircraft landing fees, terminal building rentals, concession revenue and other facility charges to fund annual expenses. If they want to use such revenue on landscaping, I have no issue. But the City should not devote a dime of supplemental money to such a venture before doing about 100 other things.

[iheartphilly]

If PHS want to throw some money for the beautification project around the airport, fine. If the businesses in the airport concourses want to contribute to this cause, also fine. I like plants and plants are good for the enviroment and wildlife. But, agree PHL need to improve service and infrastucture to the airport as their priority and nothing else.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Seems a complete waste to me. Plenty of world class cities have ugly airports. Philadelphia International Airport operates as an enterprise fund of the City. The City’s enterprise fund for the Airport, the Aviation Fund, was created and authorized as part of the Fiscal 1974 Operating Budget Ordinance approved by City Council on June 7, 1973 and made effective July 1, 1973. The Aviation Fund is self-supporting, using aircraft landing fees, terminal building rentals, concession revenue and other facility charges to fund annual expenses. If they want to use such revenue on landscaping, I have no issue. But the City should not devote a dime of supplemental money to such a venture before doing about 100 other things.

I can't say for sure without seeing the actual plans, but based on how I know the airport operates, I'm 99% sure that any such landscaping would be paid for out of the self-generated revenues you just described. Sometimes airport revenue goes back to support other city operations, but I don't think the city uses general fund (tax) revenue to support the airport at all.

(Er, I guess they do through paying money into the pension fund and maybe for some employee benefit stuff, but that's pretty indirect.)

Edit: And you can see it visually here: https://www.phila.gov/openbudget/. You can see how most of the Aviation Fund goes to Commerce (technically the airport is under the Department of Commerce, so that really just means the money is staying with the airport), while it also supports some other city agencies. Meanwhile, the other funds don't really give much to Commerce at all (the General Fund does, but that's for the non-airport parts of Commerce).

[GtownFriend]

On the other hand..
In Philly Curbed yesterday:
Over 100 parks participating in city-wide cleanup day
https://philly.curbed.com/2018/11/6/...ur-park-philly

Just for grins.. consider the number of parks that have been redone in the last few years, the on-going extension of Schuykill River Park, the Discovery Center etc. Many smaller parks are being rebuilt, and more will be with the soda tax money. Local communities have Community Gardens and work to improve and maintain small parcels (eg https://hiddencityphila.org/2018/10/...d-green-space/.

Not to say there aren't issues, but there are also people involved (not necessarily gov) in addressing them.

Compaired to a generation (or two) ago, there may still be a lot of appathy, but there is a whole lot more involvement and work for change than there was.
I've ridden Chestnut Hill West off/on for a long time. Last week I was noticing that along with some old factories and housing that still remain along the main tracks from North Philly to 30th St, there are also freshly rehabbed buildings (Pyramid), new construction (next door), amazing art work along the tracks, and community gardens. It's not all a paradise, but it's stuff I wouldn't have imagined a few decades ago.
Much still to be done, but a lot has moved in a positive direction too.
It still blows my mind that there are serious plans to redevelop North Philly Station.

[GtownFriend]

Philly Curbed today:
...yes on $181M infrastructure issue
https://philly.curbed.com/2018/11/6/...philly-results

$5 million for transit
$37 million for streets and sanitation
$98 million for municipal buildings
$26.6 million for parks, recreation, and museums
$14.6 million for economic and community development

[Raja]

FWIW, I have had three different relatives state on three separate occasions, during three separate visits to the city, via three distinct approaches -- Platt (during the days of ye olde smoldering mountain of scrap metal), Airport Line, Megabus through Camden -- that they were shocked at how much filth there was on the ride in and that they were nervous about what Philly would be like.

All of those relatives ended up loving their time in the city, but only after overcoming those initial impressions. After a decade living here, I would, like most posters on this board, consider aging industrial sites along the interstate to be basically a nonfactor in how to judge a city's worth. But I've also been here for a decade.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Raja

FWIW, I have had three different relatives state on three separate occasions, during three separate visits to the city, via three distinct approaches -- Platt (during the days of ye olde smoldering mountain of scrap metal), Airport Line, Megabus through Camden -- that they were shocked at how much filth there was on the ride in and that they were nervous about what Philly would be like.

All of those relatives ended up loving their time in the city, but only after overcoming those initial impressions. After a decade living here, I would, like most posters on this board, consider aging industrial sites along the interstate to be basically a nonfactor in how to judge a city's worth. But I've also been here for a decade.

Has anyone of the philly-sucks-because-of-the-drive-from-the-airport crowd ever flown into Newark, NJ on their way to New York? It's literally the same drive.