London Roads

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by jammer139

Sunningdale Rd is getting concrete median curbs poured today in front of Tricars NorthLink project.

Knowing Sunningdale is under an EA and needs to be widened to 5 lanes why waste money only to have it removed in a few years when it's rebuilt? They could fast track the portion from NorthLink to Richmond now and build it 5 lanes wide once. When the golf holes on south side get turned into a new subdivision complete the stretch as 5 lanes to the roundabout. At least the portion of Sunningdale would be completed.

I assume it is not the city that is doing that as they just did the exact same thing on Southdale/Col Talbot area for the new apartment. They also put the median in at Westdel and Oxford.

Makes zero sense to me as all 3 of those roads will need to be 5 lanes sooner rather than later so why waste the time and resources?

[Djeffery]

Well, we know they aren't going to just drop whatever and widen those roads tomorrow, as we don't have an endless pit of money, so in the meantime, I guess the idea is to prevent lefts and keep the traffic moving as best they can until those particular road projects can be done.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by BIGGUY2891

I'm glad it's open again. And I'm going to be annoyed when that north-south artery shuts down again in the spring.

https://www.london.ca/residents/Roads-Tr...ure-road-projects/Pages/RichmondIRP.aspx

Lol, still find it funny all the people who complained about construction with BRT, let with all this happening, would have been a perfect time to put it in...

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

I assume it is not the city that is doing that as they just did the exact same thing on Southdale/Col Talbot area for the new apartment. They also put the median in at Westdel and Oxford.

Makes zero sense to me as all 3 of those roads will need to be 5 lanes sooner rather than later so why waste the time and resources?

I agree, same thing with Bradley, needs to be made for 5 lanes, yet probably won't happen anytime soon. They just built a big ditch right beside Bradley near the Enterprise rent a car, which makes expanding the road pretty much impossible now.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Lol, still find it funny all the people who complained about construction with BRT, let with all this happening, would have been a perfect time to put it in...

BRT isn't going on York though

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Well, we know they aren't going to just drop whatever and widen those roads tomorrow, as we don't have an endless pit of money, so in the meantime, I guess the idea is to prevent lefts and keep the traffic moving as best they can until those particular road projects can be done.

I can certainly appreciate there is a balance in allocating projects and funding however I also think the city should have a little more vision and forward thinking for these new developments.

The Riverbend/Warbler area builds are well over 10 years old likely closer to 15 when initial talks began. At that time you would think a 5-10 year road plan would be put in place to account for the already poor access to the North and to the 401/402. Instead they wait, tear up the roads countless times, add medians, add lighting, add sidewalks all at different points in time.

Again I understand it is hardly a simple process but it also should not be this complicated. They way things are done adds millions of dollars to projects that if just a little better planning is done at the start it would save time and money in the end.

[Djeffery]

Riverbend is even older than that. I looked at a model home when the golf community was starting to be built in 2000 or 2001, before the golf course actually opened.

I get that everyone thinks roads in their area should have been done and the fact they haven't been done means to them that the city hasn't shown foresight or planning. It's not like the city hasn't been doing anything with roads though. In the time that Riverbend was started, Veterans Parkway has been twinned, Commissioners, Southdale, Adelaide, Fanshawe Park Rd, Oxford St, Wonderland North, Sarnia Rd and Western Rd have been widened, some in multiple phases (and those are just a couple off the top of my head), the new Oxford St W bridge over the river was built, new Hale St overpass, new Wharncliffe Rd CPR bridge, new Sarnia Rd CPR overpass.

So, sure, it would be awesome if every road that will ever need to be widened was already, but there isn't a bottomless pit of money to do it and it's not like the city is sitting on it's hands either. And the cost of putting in a curb to prevent people from turning left into Tim Hortons at West 5 would contribute exactly nothing to the total cost of widening that stretch of road, so I don't consider it a waste when it's actually serving a purpose to keeping traffic moving in the interim.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

BRT isn't going on York though

I was more talking about the closure of richmond street between york and dundas

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I was more talking about the closure of richmond street between york and dundas

BRT isn't going there either.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

BRT isn't going there either.

Wait what? Wasn't the whole point of BRT to run down Richmond? At this point why are we even bothering wasting money putting this in? I was a big supporter of BRT, but the way they are doing it, I'd rather them scrap it and put the money to other use at this point, it's not even BRT anymore.

[Spoofy]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Wait what? Wasn't the whole point of BRT to run down Richmond? At this point why are we even bothering wasting money putting this in? I was a big supporter of BRT, but the way they are doing it, I'd rather them scrap it and put the money to other use at this point, it's not even BRT anymore.

The North Leg would've gone up and down Richmond north of Queens Ave, but the Downtown Loop that the Council approved is Wellington-Queens-Ridout-King.

More info here if you wanna see what the team is currently advertising.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Spoofy

The North Leg would've gone up and down Richmond north of Queens Ave, but the Downtown Loop that the Council approved is Wellington-Queens-Ridout-King.

More info here if you wanna see what the team is currently advertising.

Oh okay, makes more sense. I am still pretty discouraged by London and the council though. I see cities like K/W and Hamilton getting full funding for LRT and our council is still fighting with Londoners about a BRT system that's only servicing half the city, mind you the half of the city that's already developed, and not the North or West parts where development is booming right now and could use rapid transit more.

[Djeffery]

The downtown section is pointless now without the north or west legs. It will essentially be Fanshawe College to White Oaks Mall via downtown, so they don't really need to loop around downtown to do that. Up Wellington, east on King. But if we want to province and feds to pay for the sewer work in the rest of downtown, we need BRT I guess. Not including Western is basically the death knell for this project (and the city is going to make Masonville the first Transit Village too). I don't think the east and south or going to provide the overwhelming evidence people will be looking for to be convinced BRT is a good idea or that we should be pursuing LRT.

[TallerIsBetter]

There is an opportunity, in my eyes, to move a lot of people rapidly up to/down from the N end on Wharncliff/Western with lots of mixed traffic express-to-Western and express-to-TransitHub if we would build a TransitHub where people could park free and take a no-stop express to downtown. There was never going to be anything "rapid" with a Richmond BRT that was going to snake through campus.

And I'm gonna say it... I'm now convinced that dedicated lanes are really only an attempt to frustrate drivers to social engineer people out of cars (as is the notion of a 30 km/HR speed limit in residential - watch, I bet busses will be exempt!!).

If you are really interested in moving people do a N TransitHub with ample free parking, and non stop busses to a downtown terminal with 5 minute frequency, and truly effective synchronized traffic lights you might get somewhere.

[jammer139]

+1 on your observations.

BRT is a epic failure on so many levels. We have 2/3rds empty buses now and the main complaint is the bus doesn't arrive within 1 min of the person showing up at the stop. Let's make transportation so painful that only buses will be an option. Screw bikers, walkers, cars, downtown businesses with their deliveries for the sake of 16% of those who take a bus. So they can have the bus arrive within seconds of showing up at the stop.

Originally Posted by TallerIsBetter

There is an opportunity, in my eyes, to move a lot of people rapidly up to/down from the N end on Wharncliff/Western with lots of mixed traffic express-to-Western and express-to-TransitHub if we would build a TransitHub where people could park free and take a no-stop express to downtown. There was never going to be anything "rapid" with a Richmond BRT that was going to snake through campus.

And I'm gonna say it... I'm now convinced that dedicated lanes are really only an attempt to frustrate drivers to social engineer people out of cars (as is the notion of a 30 km/HR speed limit in residential - watch, I bet busses will be exempt!!).

If you are really interested in moving people do a N TransitHub with ample free parking, and non stop busses to a downtown terminal with 5 minute frequency, and truly effective synchronized traffic lights you might get somewhere.

[Spoofy]

This comment was rude and uncalled for

This forum doesn't allow deleting of posts, so this is the next best option.

[haljackey]

Guess this post got a little long. Apologies in advance if this seems like a bit of a rant... I guess I just wanted to keep going with it lol.

Originally Posted by Spoofy

Wow.

Gonna be honest, I expected more from a frequent poster this forum.

I'm quite surprised by this level of ignorance.

This is a forum, a place for discussion and debate from different perspectives. You may not always agree with others, but I for one enjoy seeing different opinions being expressed.

These days I am finding people are sheltering themselves within a bubble of things they agree with and anyone outside the bubble is flat out wrong.

It's important to at least recognize what others have to say in a democracy, even if you disagree with them.

This BRT system is a compromise. While I am happy something be going to get built, I share the concerns mentioned.

-----

Jammer, allow me break down your comment. Rather than flat out dismiss you as wrong, here are some things I think BRT might do to make things better.

We have 2/3rds empty buses now
-Fair point. Some bus routes are pretty underutilized and the LTC is continuing to make tweaks to encourage ridership. Many bus routes will be rerouted when BRT comes and maybe we can up this to say 2/3 full buses.
-Also, there will be more buses with this plan, so even if the buses continue to be 2/3 empty on average they will still take cars off the road.

the main complaint is the bus doesn't arrive within 1 min of the person showing up at the stop
-Agreed. People are in a rush and hate waiting, I get that. However BRT will be more frequent than the regular bus service. If you just miss your bus you might have to wait 5 mins for the next one. Compare this to just missing a green light and now have to wait at an intersection for a few mins.

Let's make transportation so painful that only buses will be an option.
-While we're not widening roads for cars, we are taking the buses off the car lanes. This will be a win I think. The approved BRT projects will not see any vehicle lanes removed except for maybe a few 3-lane sections of Wellington. However with a upgraded road design and light timings, these stretches may operate just as well as they do now, again with buses out of the equation.
-Other upgrades around the BRT network are also taking place like the Adelaide St underpass.

Screw bikers, walkers, cars, downtown businesses with their deliveries for the sake of 16% of those who take a bus.
-It's going to take some time for everyone to adapt to BRT. The downtown loop will eat up the bike lanes on King and Queen but Dundas can be used as an alternate. The project does involve some more cycling infrastructure and better sidewalk/pedestrian safety features. Bus usage should increase from the current 16% as well... hopefully much more!
-As for downtown deliveries, you have a good point. As we are seeing right now on King, downtown delivery trucks are a major pain point. In time maybe we will see some designated offloading areas on the BRT cross-streets. Talbot and Clarence have some curbside space that could be better utilized for this purpose for example.

----

Anyways hope this helps. I am trying to remain cautiously optimistic about this project. We all need to adjust to it but I am hopeful that this will be a improvement to our city.

[Djeffery]

Public transit by it's nature, is a service, not a business. You can't talk about bus load factors in the same way an airline talks about load factor. In a couple hours a couple times a day, the buses run full and there are a lot of them on the road. After 9am, a lot come off the road and frequency drops but they still have to maintain a certain level of service even if the buses appear mostly empty a lot of the time through the middle of the day, and in the evening.

[UpstairsCranberry]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The downtown section is pointless now without the north or west legs. It will essentially be Fanshawe College to White Oaks Mall via downtown, so they don't really need to loop around downtown to do that. Up Wellington, east on King. But if we want to province and feds to pay for the sewer work in the rest of downtown, we need BRT I guess. Not including Western is basically the death knell for this project (and the city is going to make Masonville the first Transit Village too). I don't think the east and south or going to provide the overwhelming evidence people will be looking for to be convinced BRT is a good idea or that we should be pursuing LRT.

The regular buses will be using the loop, massively improving their efficiency when downtown, so I don't see it as a major waste.
But yeah, not including Western/Masonville or the Oxford Wonderland area is a major mistake. But, it does seem Masonville will continue to densify and become at least a 1/2 half-assed Transit Village.

[haljackey]

Highbury Avenue South / Wenige Expressway to start upgrades next year

http://www.london.ca/residents/Roads-Tra...blic%20Update%20Presentation%20FINAL.pdf

I think the MTO is also planning to rebuild the Highbury/401 interchange soon too, but it won't be free flowing. Stoplights remain on a freeway...


Reddit discussion if interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/londonontario/comments/ect2wo/wenige_expressway_bridgehighbury_avenue/