[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Jringe01

www.savetheview.ca also says that
"The proposed Convention Centre towers fly in the face of current best practices in the world’s great historic cities like London, Paris, Jerusalem, Vienna, Charleston and Quebec City. These great cities are tightening design controls and blocking the erection of towers in their city centres. Shouldn’t Halifax, a great Canadian historic city, be doing the same?"

However I would surmise that they haven't taken a real good look at the towers currently under construction (and proposed) in the City and in Westminster/Lambeth etc...it also helps cities like London and Paris is that they have set aside areas specifically for high-rise construction because they have the space, money, economy and political will do do so...where would they propose building "LaDefense" in Halifax???

If they did a bit more homework, they work also see that Quebec City has a number of highrise proposals, including this one - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=169160 . I think that the people writing these things hope that no one will do any further research. That is what annoys me the most about this group - they think that people will just blindly accept all of their twisted facts. Maybe before the internet came along that was the case but now ....

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Jringe01

Anyone have the link for this petition. I'd like to sign it if it's still an option. :-)

It is closed since it has already been presented. However, the names are here - http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/support-the-new-halifax-convention-centre-construction.html . It had about 2.5 times the number of signatures as the Save the View petition.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

If they did a bit more homework, they work also see that Quebec City has a number of highrise proposals, including this one - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=169160 .

Oh, I like that. I like the night rendering with the skylights from the roof.

[Jringe01]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

It is closed since it has already been presented. However, the names are here - http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/support-the-new-halifax-convention-centre-construction.html . It had about 2.5 times the number of signatures as the Save the View petition.

Cool, thanks Fenwick. I settled for liking it on FB. :-)

[halifaxboyns]

Not sure if anyone had posted this yet. Found this on the Herald website today...

Urban core: more at stake than two developments

By BERNARD SMITH
Wed, Aug 4 - 4:53 AM

We may be losing the art of debate and replacing it with an aggressive imperative to win. If this is so, it is regrettable: Debate at least stands some chance of extracting the best from the disparate views. Surely we should aspire to reach the best.

A recent article in this newspaper by Laura Penny compares the two current major investment options being contemplated for Halifax, the new civic library and the proposed convention centre. In the article, the library is seen as a needed public investment while the convention centre is seen as an inappropriate subsidization of entrepreneurial activity.

There are some interesting parallels between the two projects which have not been fully examined in Ms. Penny’s article. First, both of the issues are before us at this time due to the fact that previous generations did not build edifices that were sufficiently large or flexible. They were built for what appeared to be the reasonable needs of their time.

What those before us failed to do, however, was to allow for sufficient future adaptability. Both of these existing facilities have been judged unable to be satisfactorily expanded. This generation faces the question of whether to invest further substantial funding into new facilities as a result of not being able to modify existing structures.

There are more parallels to be examined. Going beyond the immediate issue of funding, we are faced with the possible replacement of two public facilities — one a learning centre, the second a large meeting space — both of which could be rendered obsolete by rapidly advancing technology and by changes in public demand or needs. Surely one lesson to be learned from this is to insist on maximum possible flexibility being built into new facilities.

Who can see ahead 30 years to the needs of the library and the convention centre in 2040, any more than they could see ahead to our present needs back when the original facilities were put in place? We should surely learn from past decisions and build in the potential to adapt and possibly to expand. There will almost inevitability be a future need in our society for large meeting spaces and for smaller meeting and research spaces, for isn’t that what these facilities really are?

How these facilities are to be financed is really another issue, which isn’t helped by bringing in the ghosts of past efforts at economic expansion. These are needed pieces of public infra-structure which would normally be provided by government. Shell-shocked by the very examples alluded to in the article, government is less anxious to develop and run major facilities, even though government can still borrow at lower cost than the private sector and is still expected to lead the way in many respects.

Government has been shocked by its inability to build well and operate economically, even if it can borrow well. A few more P3 fiascos may cause us to put government back into its historic delivery mode.

The P3 schools were surely mainly brought about by poor government tendering and contract administration in the past. This left us with some poorly constructed and designed facilities, which, combined with a lack of adequate maintenance, resulted in the need to replace them. Had that been competently dealt with in the past, we might not have needed replacement schools in the form of P3s in an effort to keep debt off the government balance sheet.

There are at least two other major gaps in our downtown streetscapes and a great deal more under-utilization to be considered in addition to the library and former Herald sites: the site of the much-debated "Twisted Sisters," which seems likely to remain vacant for some years to come, and the once again ignored Cogswell interchange. We must ask ourselves, as a society, why sites in our downtown remain undeveloped.

A major potential building at the end of Granville Mall, owned by Sobeys, has remained undeveloped, with all approvals in place for an immediate start, for the past 30 years. The Sobey empire can provide the needed funds to build with little more than the stroke of a pen. The reasons these lands remain vacant are the very reasons why our downtown struggles.

Somewhere between relative commercial taxation levels, the availability of subsidized land on the periphery, the effectiveness and cost of transportation, and the changing needs of business, lies a $10-per-square-foot, per year, cost differential between our downtown core and suburban commercial sites. Until we, as a society, recognize and debate these issues, we will continue to have under-utilization in our city centre and arguments about how and where to invest will continue.

In all probability, many of these fights about whether "to build or not to build" in our urban centre would not take place if the area was vibrant and successful. Developers would have more resources to devote to making their buildings innovative and attractive.

The underlying fact is that the city should deal with this disadvantage to its urban core.

Bernard Smith is manager of the Spring Garden Area Business Association.

From the Chronical Herald Online.

[someone123]

Yep, Jonovision posted it in General Updates and News.

It is a good article. It's frustrating that things haven't improved more quickly but I think at the very least the debate is coming more and more into focus. I dislike articles that talk about how the downtown area needs "new vitality" or whatever - way too vague to be useful. Arguments about investment and taxation are more concrete, much closer to an explanation of the situation, and describe things that can be changed.

All I can hope for is that the city is slowly "waking up" and that we'll see more and more action. It will be about 10 years too late (good overall economic times make it possible to invest in the downtown), but better late than never...

[worldlyhaligonian]

Ugh, I can't even tell whose side people are on in this debate. What scares me even more is when false statements are picked up by these "journalists" as fact and they end up in our medium (newspapers) via the communication process. Sometimes people on the pro-side have to even address alot of these lies directly as if they presented a real threat to this project being a success.

The irony here is that the obstructionists are using misinformation tactics similar to the neo-con Bush and Blair administrations did to go into Iraq. (Even though these are likely very liberal people.) They even produced false images of what the view would look like and purposefully distributed this material via the internet.

sdm - I know you don't agree with me on the feasibility side... but other than recessionary pressures at play, I have not read any real evidence to show that conventions/conferences/trade shows are actually on an aggregate decline.

The newspaper analogy isn't proven. Sure, I can see that communications technologies are making the world smaller and reducing the need for travel in every case. That being said, its pretty hard for people in the industrial sectors not to physically see equipment, etc.

The analogy is almost equivalent to saying eventually we won't even have to go to stores in the future because we can just buy everything online. Touch and feel are very important parts of being human and I doubt that trade shows or shopping will ever cease to exist.

How can we as Nova Scotians actually not gain from this development! There is soo much free federal money and we just spend 40 MILLION ON 4 RINKS out in the burbs.

Lets get this done so we can build capacity the city and province.

[someone123]

The videoconferencing type argument doesn't hold water. If it were true then there wouldn't be giant new conferences like PAX which emerged from online communication - people could just talk to each other online but they are willing to spend significant amounts of money to sometimes meet each other in person.

Conferences are standard in academia and useful in many industries for demonstrating products - even things like video games that aren't tangible and could be distributed online through demos. These conferences and conventions are not going away anytime soon, we're just seeing the same old Maritime defeatist "why bother?" attitude.

No third bridge, cars are on their way out. No convention centre, conventions are dying. No library, books are finished. No condos, we have enough already.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

The videoconferencing type argument doesn't hold water. If it were true then there wouldn't be giant new conferences like PAX which emerged from online communication - people could just talk to each other online but they are willing to spend significant amounts of money to sometimes meet each other in person.

Conferences are standard in academia and useful in many industries for demonstrating products - even things like video games that aren't tangible and could be distributed online through demos. These conferences and conventions are not going away anytime soon, we're just seeing the same old Maritime defeatist "why bother?" attitude.

No third bridge, cars are on their way out. No convention centre, conventions are dying. No library, books are finished. No condos, we have enough already.

Great points... there are tons of video game conference's for christ's sake... it takes alot to pull somebody away from WOW or whatever they play.

I think we could attract alot of ICT conferences as well, Halifax is a pretty big player in Canadian telecom.

The obstructionists want nothing to change and oppose everything... but they honestly are the people that contribute the least to Halifax anyway. Being against things isn't positive.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Does the Nova Centre proposal connect to the rest of the downtown pedway system? If so, we could have an above ground version of Montreal's "underground city" on our hands if this and IP get built.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Does the Nova Centre proposal connect to the rest of the downtown pedway system? If so, we could have an above ground version of Montreal's "underground city" on our hands if this and IP get built.

i believe it is connected, but underground. How i am not sure as there is a significant distance to the existing trade centre. The above ground pedways were killed with HRM by design, in that any connections i.e. pedways are required to be underground now. Not sure if i think that is economically feasible considering halifax has a lot of rock and well the downtown is built on the side of a hill.

That said, I've heard from some good sources IP has been place on hold for close to 5 years. Reasons stated are that the office market has gotten worse downtown.

Although not a surpised based on the data i've seen, its sad because that building is simply awesome design. I think we may hear of others holding off till things sort out.

[JustinMacD]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

How can we as Nova Scotians actually not gain from this development! There is soo much free federal money and we just spend 40 MILLION ON 4 RINKS out in the burbs.

Lets get this done so we can build capacity the city and province.

+1

It's amazing how much money is pissed away on hockey rinks.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

+1

It's amazing how much money is pissed away on hockey rinks.

Its not just hockey rinks...

the councillors and public get their shorts in a knot over any spending on IMPORTANT infrastructure, but when it comes to substandard sports facilities all over the HRM, some how the spending is legitimized.

I wonder what the total figure for the Canada Games Centre and all these other facilities that have been built. I would bet money that it could have gone to build 1 real stadium that would have wayyy more impact. The Nova Centre is really a no brainer and they are worried about spending a little bit more on a project that will generate economic spin offs.

And to address the obesiety point... it isn't valid. There are going to be fat people in the maritimes because the diets and lifestyle people have. Putting a 4 hockey rink out in the burbs does nothing to reduce this fact. Plus, I know tons of fat hockey players because the sport is only as demanding as the player is willing to work. Sometimes the fat guys are good because they play positional.

Or... the money could be spent on transportation initiatives. But no, they can't even get a bus terminal built in dartmouth.

[fenwick16]

On the plus side, the terminal is going ahead in Dartmouth. I read that the city would soon send out tenders (source - a few days ago in allnovascotia.com).

[hfxtradesman]

It looks like all the questions have been asked by the Gov. and all in good response now we wait for Sept to come.

[halifaxboyns]

I also found this on the agenda for tonight's council meeting...interesting.
Presentation to Council request.

[halifaxboyns]

Did anyone tune into city council tonight?

[Haliguy]

Convention centre decision imminent
Estabrooks to consult premier before revealing his view on government funding
By JEFFREY SIMPSON Provincial Reporter
Fri, Sep 3 - 4:53 AM

Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks will reveal his decision on the proposed Halifax convention centre later this month. (PETER PARSONS/Staff)

Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks suggested Thursday that he’s made up his mind about whether a proposed convention centre in downtown Halifax deserves government funding.

"I had real opportunity to look at a lot of the specifics," Estabrooks said. "It’s been quite a positive learning experience for me. There’s a couple more weeks of to-and-fro I have with my staff. I have meetings scheduled each week with them."

But he’ll wait until later this month to share his opinion publicly, he said.

"It’s imminent for sure; the decision is not far away."

Estabrooks said he wants to discuss the matter with Premier Darrell Dexter first.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Convention centre decision imminent
Estabrooks to consult premier before revealing his view on government funding
By JEFFREY SIMPSON Provincial Reporter
Fri, Sep 3 - 4:53 AM

Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks will reveal his decision on the proposed Halifax convention centre later this month. (PETER PARSONS/Staff)

Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks suggested Thursday that he’s made up his mind about whether a proposed convention centre in downtown Halifax deserves government funding.

"I had real opportunity to look at a lot of the specifics," Estabrooks said. "It’s been quite a positive learning experience for me. There’s a couple more weeks of to-and-fro I have with my staff. I have meetings scheduled each week with them."

But he’ll wait until later this month to share his opinion publicly, he said.

"It’s imminent for sure; the decision is not far away."

Estabrooks said he wants to discuss the matter with Premier Darrell Dexter first.

In other words, there is no decision yet.

[Keith P.]

Fearless prediction: they do not support it.