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  #1201  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 1:46 PM
Winnipegger Winnipegger is offline
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I'll take a 16% reduction in my hydro bill. Yes please.
So you'd out-source thousands of mid and senior-level good paying jobs in Manitoba to some other province (or country) so you could save $16 a month - which would be temporary, because capital costs continue to go up anyway?

The economic multiplier effect on Manitoba's economy is probably much higher for those thousands of MB Hydro jobs located right here in the province compared to the marginal monthly gains (<$50) everybody would get from lower administrative costs if those jobs were slashed.

On net, somehow "outsourcing" Hydro's administrative and maintenance functions to another province or country would likely result in a loss to Manitoba's prosperity.

For those who think the Utility Crown Corp is an inefficient government pig trough that is poorly run, I'd encourage you to look to other regions that tried to or have privatized utilities and see how that's going for them and their rates (i.e. Ontario or Texas). Hint: privatization does not lead to lower utility rates. In fact, it will likely lead to the opposite because in a laissez faire "capitalist" utopia with no corporate regulation or oversight (i.e. the PUB), profit-maximizing corporations have little incentive to keep rates low on a natural monopoly like Hydro electric power.

It's not like privatizing electricity in Manitoba is going to lead to 50 other electric utilities all coming up here and building their own dams and power distribution networks, leading to competition and lower rates. Instead it will be one company who now reports to shareholders that want to maximize this quarter's profits as opposed to the current setup where the utility is overseen by the Provincial Government (i.e. Manitobans) and the PUB.

People who think the privatization of Hydro is a good thing for Manitobans are shortsighted and can't think past the $10 a month they will save on their utility bill for the first year, which will quickly disappear after the spotlight is no longer on the newly minted privatized utility. Let me ask, are Manitoban's cell phone bills lower now compared to before MTS was sold to Bell? Doubtful, Saskatchewan - who still has SaskTell - seems to have more competitive plans due to increased competition there. Would Manitobans be better of MPI was privatized? The C.D. Howe Institute ranked Manitoba and Saskatchewan as having the best auto insurance plans in Canada. And having a look at the history of Hydro One's electricity rates in Ontario sure doesn't seem to lend credibility to the idea that utility privatization leads to lower rates on net - if anything, it has introduced uncertainty to users with wild swings in on-peak pricing which may be a good thing to encourage more even distribution of electricity consumption over the day, but likely a net loss to consumers from a billing perspective.

It's hard to argue that the privatization of a utility will lead to a net gain in consumer welfare in Manitoba, even if it marginally or entirely reduces administrative costs. Like we've seen in the past, it would likely lead to a reduction or elimination in head office employment (instead going to Calgary or Toronto), reducing aggregate wages in Winnipeg in exchange for a small decrease in the average consumer's monthly bill. That's not a deal I'd be willing to take, nor would most people who can think past the extra one pizza per month they could purchase with the newly found savings.

/end rant
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  #1202  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 1:49 PM
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Well put, Winnipegger. It's helpful to look at the bigger picture beyond just getting irritated that your neighbour who works for Hydro gets to head out early to the golf course two afternoons a month.
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  #1203  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 2:05 PM
The Unknown Poster The Unknown Poster is offline
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Originally Posted by cllew View Post
Does Bell still do that with their office staff? If I am not mistaken when it was MTS the non craft staff did either 30 or 45 minutes a day to get every 2nd Friday off.
My dad was there for Filmon Fridays.

You work an extra 7.5 minutes (I believe it is) a day to generate 5 personal days per year. They have been chipping away at the personal days with each new CBA but the 5 days have been grandfathered for existing employees.

They are very big on flex work marketing. But its almost everyone back to the office even if they were told they were permanent work from home. Not everyone...but most.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
I have never understood how a crown corporation that is always under fire for its management has gotten away with a four day work week all these years. The 30 minutes extra is completely bogus. You would think just for optics they would make them work like a regular company.
Meh, I don't see how this is much different than the May to September "summer hours" every private architectural or engineering firm in the City enacts.

You work "extra" everyday to take either every second Friday off, or have every Friday afternoon off - depending on where you work.

The only difference is at a consulting firm you need to bill these extra hours to a project. Hydro probably doesn't operate that same way. But I suspect the extra time that is actually used for extra work is similar no matter where you work.
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  #1205  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 2:51 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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First off, I would never, ever want to privatize hydro. Or any other our our public utitilies.

Hydro outsources a shitload of their work already. The company I worked for has designed all of hydro's plants for the past 60 years. Hydro doesn't actually do that work. Hydro does like the high level, planning type work. Even then consultants heavily involved. Hydro manages the money on their end. They spent 100's of millions on consultants over the decades, with peoples rates marked up 3 times the wage.

A lot of companies and public bodies don't actually do any of their actual engineering work. City, Province, Hydro. Railways barely have engineers working for them anymore. Etc. That's just how it is.

I'm not saying we should fire everyone at Hydro. To the original point, it can be a pretty slack place to work from people who actually work(ed) there, compared to elsewhere in the industry. Good for them I guess. Being more efficient leads to better rates for the public. Which is entirely what their mandate is.
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  #1206  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 3:33 PM
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thebasketballgeek thebasketballgeek is offline
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Doesn't Hydro provide us with like the second cheapest rates for electricity in Canada behind Quebec? There's many services that the city and province provide that I have problems with. Hydro is certainly not one of them.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 6:35 PM
Lulz Lulz is offline
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There is no reason to privatize MB Hydro at all. Just gut the management and stop taking on debt to build new dams.
Its shameful watching this Manitoban asset being given away
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  #1208  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
Doesn't Hydro provide us with like the second cheapest rates for electricity in Canada behind Quebec? There's many services that the city and province provide that I have problems with. Hydro is certainly not one of them.
It is, and we are up for a rate hike soon here. I think Quebec is 7 cents per kw/h and Manitoba is 11.
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  #1209  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 8:35 PM
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I wonder how the construction of the Wawanesa tower will affect the energy performance of the Hydro Building. It is designed to have those big 6 storey south facing atriums pre-heat the air, but there might be a big building casing a substantial shadow on it now.
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  #1210  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
It is, and we are up for a rate hike soon here. I think Quebec is 7 cents per kw/h and Manitoba is 11.
Arent the rates variable? BC has a rate that fluctuates on total kwh
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  #1211  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 9:29 PM
zalf zalf is offline
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^ No, but there are hints MB Hydro is considering this
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  #1212  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2022, 9:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
I wonder how the construction of the Wawanesa tower will affect the energy performance of the Hydro Building. It is designed to have those big 6 storey south facing atriums pre-heat the air, but there might be a big building casing a substantial shadow on it now.
if i recall part of that design took that into account that it could get blocked
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  #1213  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 1:22 PM
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Winnipeg Grump Winnipeg Grump is offline
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Originally Posted by Lulz View Post
There is no reason to privatize MB Hydro at all. Just gut the management and stop taking on debt to build new dams.
Its shameful watching this Manitoban asset being given away
The 'stop taking on debt to build new dams' bit is going to tough considering they have multiple dams that are near end-of-life that need to be replaced or upgraded.

Think of all those Winnipeg Hydro dams they acquired on the Winnipeg River system that are ancient and need big $$$ to modernize.
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  #1214  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 1:48 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Centra Gas is increasing base gas rates by 20.5%. Just because hydro rates are seemingly cheap, doesn't mean it's okay if they wastefully spend. Rates could be even cheaper.

I'm not trying to just pile on about how terrible Hydro is. If Pallister could cut 900 jobs or whatever the hell it was, it shows the glut that was abound at Hydro. It's not just a free for all gravy train.

Also yes they will be spending a shitload over the coming years on refurbishments. That's just part of the game.

They won't be building any new plants likely for decades. Conawapa is permanently on hold, as it has been for decades. But it always comes out in the future about how we should've built things sooner because it's always cheaper. We should build stuff today because in 10 or 20 years, it's cheap looking back. Hydro should be selling excess power at market rates to our neighbouring Provinces and Sates. It's one resource we actually have and don't leverage it nearly enough. They've been doing better in recent years.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnipeg Grump View Post
The 'stop taking on debt to build new dams' bit is going to tough considering they have multiple dams that are near end-of-life that need to be replaced or upgraded.

Think of all those Winnipeg Hydro dams they acquired on the Winnipeg River system that are ancient and need big $$$ to modernize.
The generating capacity of those is fairly trivial compared to the big northern dams.
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  #1216  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
if i recall part of that design took that into account that it could get blocked
Good to know. I remember wondering about that myself when I was reading about the building after its unveiling, but then I thought "what are the odds that a tall building will ever be built right across the street?"
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  #1217  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Centra Gas is increasing base gas rates by 20.5%. Just because hydro rates are seemingly cheap, doesn't mean it's okay if they wastefully spend. Rates could be even cheaper.

I'm not trying to just pile on about how terrible Hydro is. If Pallister could cut 900 jobs or whatever the hell it was, it shows the glut that was abound at Hydro. It's not just a free for all gravy train.

Also yes they will be spending a shitload over the coming years on refurbishments. That's just part of the game.

They won't be building any new plants likely for decades. Conawapa is permanently on hold, as it has been for decades. But it always comes out in the future about how we should've built things sooner because it's always cheaper. We should build stuff today because in 10 or 20 years, it's cheap looking back. Hydro should be selling excess power at market rates to our neighbouring Provinces and Sates. It's one resource we actually have and don't leverage it nearly enough. They've been doing better in recent years.
This is what's happened to natural gas prices in the last 5 years. But sure - let's blame Hydro's staffing costs for the PUB increasing the rates.

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  #1218  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 8:32 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Hydro charges through whatever they pay for gas. Not blaming them, just pointing out the rates.

Hydroelectric rates though, they control through the PUB.

Just my opinion on what the situation is. If people don't like the truth, that's fine. There's a reason A shitload of people were let go from Hydro and things are still carrying on just fine.
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  #1219  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 8:42 PM
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^ If they have too many staff that's another story. I'm just taking exception to people here griping about Hydro's flex hours
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  #1220  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 9:46 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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Originally Posted by Lulz View Post
There is no reason to privatize MB Hydro at all. Just gut the management and stop taking on debt to build new dams.
Its shameful watching this Manitoban asset being given away
How do you propose building public assets without utilizing debt financing?

Save up $20 billion and then build some hydro dams?
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