The 401

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Induced demand? How about actual demand? It's not like the population and industry is shrinking along the 401 corridor.

I don't disagree. But we've been predicting such a population increase for decades, and what infrastructure has been built in anticipation? Not nearly enough. The GTA is extremely vulnerable by having 95% of its thru traffic directed though one single highway, when they should have built an alternative highway to encourage through traffic to bypass Toronto (the current arrangement discourages the bypass. I ain't paying fucking 50$ to avoid the 401). The 407 privatization was a terrible mistake. It is essentially a highway for rich people.

[Djeffery]

I took the 401 to Ottawa Sunday morning, sailed on through. Took 7 and 407 back yesterday. Hate paying the toll, but hate sitting in Toronto traffic more. Total BS selling it off I agree. What we don't know is how much money would the province have spent on it in the 25-ish years since and how much would the tolls be under them anyway? It was a much lesser highway when it was first built. The provincial stretch of the 407 has quite a bit lower tolls, but it's also a less in demand section. Given those decades of toll creep, I think the provincial tolls would probably be close to where they are now if it was never sold, and probably a lane less wide between 427 and 404.

[Innsertnamehere]

The 407 also hasn’t increased tolls since February of 2020 despite record setting inflation as they haven’t been hitting the minimum traffic requirements in the contract to increase them. Which has been nice, since they were jacking them like 10% a year before the pandemic.

[MolsonExport]

The 6 Most Expensive Toll Roads in the World

6. Route 407, Ontario, Canada

[Djeffery]

Noticed today that westbound traffic west of Highbury in London has shifted over to the new overpasses built over Pond Mills and the CN line. I assume this is all the work they are doing along there until spring now, when I'd guess they will demolish the northern half of those 2 old overpasses to build the next new section.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The 6 Most Expensive Toll Roads in the World

Some of those ones don't surprise me because they go over or under large bodies of water. But I'm surprised that Denver, Colorado has a highway that's more expensive than the 407 or it is overall?

I just got a 407 ETR bill for $38 and it was from going from Vaughan to Mississauga and back later on a Friday evening and not during the busiest time. It was about 20 minutes one way spent on the highway.

[MolsonExport]

^Highway Robbery.

[Innsertnamehere]

407 is deadly if you don't have a transponder as they nail you with the camera fee AND a "monthly account fee".

A single trip without a transponder will literally be like 1/2 those crap fees. It's not as bad with a transponder as you don't have to pay those.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I took the 401 to Ottawa Sunday morning, sailed on through. Took 7 and 407 back yesterday. Hate paying the toll, but hate sitting in Toronto traffic more. Total BS selling it off I agree. What we don't know is how much money would the province have spent on it in the 25-ish years since and how much would the tolls be under them anyway? It was a much lesser highway when it was first built. The provincial stretch of the 407 has quite a bit lower tolls, but it's also a less in demand section. Given those decades of toll creep, I think the provincial tolls would probably be close to where they are now if it was never sold, and probably a lane less wide between 427 and 404.

I was in Ottawa in September and ended up going through upstate NY to get home to avoid hitting Toronto in rush hour. It's about an hour longer drive without traffic, but far more relaxing of a drive than the 401. You are basically the only car on the road on I-87, and I-90 isn't particularly busy either compared to the 401 east of the GTA..

The new toll camera system on I-90 is also terribly unreliable and didn't bill me for like half the trip lol. So it's even cheaper than it should be.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I was in Ottawa in September and ended up going through upstate NY to get home to avoid hitting Toronto in rush hour. It's about an hour longer drive without traffic, but far more relaxing of a drive than the 401. You are basically the only car on the road on I-87, and I-90 isn't particularly busy either compared to the 401 east of the GTA..

The new toll camera system on I-90 is also terribly unreliable and didn't bill me for like half the trip lol. So it's even cheaper than it should be.

Took me 5 hours 15 minutes from my hotel in Gatineau to my driveway in Woodstock and this was mid day (got home at 4pm). I stopped once to take a leak in Madoc and straight home after that. I can't imagine going all the way down to NYS would have only wasted an hour. Drive along 7 was fine, I was able to pass those I needed to with relative ease and other than the fog, it was a really pretty drive. It was only really about 2 hours 15 minutes on the 2 lane section from Carleton Place to Peterborough, so that wasn't bad at all.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Took me 5 hours 15 minutes from my hotel in Gatineau to my driveway in Woodstock and this was mid day (got home at 4pm). I stopped once to take a leak in Madoc and straight home after that. I can't imagine going all the way down to NYS would have only wasted an hour. Drive along 7 was fine, I was able to pass those I needed to with relative ease and other than the fog, it was a really pretty drive. It was only really about 2 hours 15 minutes on the 2 lane section from Carleton Place to Peterborough, so that wasn't bad at all.

Even via 7 and 407, it’d take me at least 3 hr 45 min to go from Kanata to Richmond Hill. And 2 hr 15 min on the undivided section of 7? Sheesh, how fast were you going…

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Even via 7 and 407, it’d take me at least 3 hr 45 min to go from Kanata to Richmond Hill. And 2 hr 15 min on the undivided section of 7? Sheesh, how fast were you going…

Might have been 2 1/2, I don't know. It was 11am when I went past the 416/417 interchange, so I'm thinking, what 20-25 minutes after that to Carleton Place? Madoc around 1pm or so, then the 115 about another 45 minutes or so. For sure I was exceeding the speed limit, but not setting a land speed record. Had cops go by me the other way and didn't attract their attention.

[sonysnob]

Easterly view from the Hespeler Road overpass in Cambridge earlier this afternoon:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_4...ec23_42x28.jpg

[MolsonExport]

401 roadwork in Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge has been going on since Wilfrid Laurier was Prime Minister. Fer fuxsakes. Those fucking traffic cones. God, how I hate them.

[sonysnob]

Looking westerly through Pickering:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_4...un22_42x28.jpg

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Took me 5 hours 15 minutes from my hotel in Gatineau to my driveway in Woodstock and this was mid day (got home at 4pm). I stopped once to take a leak in Madoc and straight home after that. I can't imagine going all the way down to NYS would have only wasted an hour. Drive along 7 was fine, I was able to pass those I needed to with relative ease and other than the fog, it was a really pretty drive. It was only really about 2 hours 15 minutes on the 2 lane section from Carleton Place to Peterborough, so that wasn't bad at all.

Looking at Google maps right now, it shows 5:11 to go via hwy 7 to my house from Ottawa and 6:10 to go via I-90. And that's with using literally the entire length of the 407 from 35 to the QEW - $$$$. In my case I was also leaving Ottawa mid-day - I would have hit Toronto in the middle of evening rush hour.

Taking I-90 likely wasn't the fastest option, but I can assure you it was far more relaxing than fighting my way across the 401 and was probably only an additional 15 minutes of driving over taking the 401 all the way across with no 407. Even just going from the 416 to the Thousand Islands, one of the emptier parts of the 401, was a slower and more "traffic" filled dive than any part of I-87/I-90 was. Right now when I input it into maps, avoiding the 407, it spits out 5:45 via the 401 vs. 6:10 for I-90.

[sonysnob]

There is a website for Highway 401 widening between Milton and the Wellington County Line. Not much is contained on this website yet, but here's the link anyways:

https://highway401milton.ca/

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

There is a website for Highway 401 widening between Milton and the Wellington County Line. Not much is contained on this website yet, but here's the link anyways:

https://highway401milton.ca/

I would assume this would start by replacing the overpasses in the 401? I also hope the new overpass at Tremaine Road is planned to be long enough to support this widening.

I think all the underpasses got widened out already right? Like this one that could just use some sprucing up to get it ready?

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4797...8192?entry=ttu

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I would assume this would start by replacing the overpasses in the 401? I also hope the new overpass at Tremaine Road is planned to be long enough to support this widening.

I think all the underpasses got widened out already right? Like this one that could just use some sprucing up to get it ready?

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4797...8192?entry=ttu

Tremaine is definitely wide enough, the centre pillars are there now and you can see where the ends are. Several of the underpasses got new spans several years ago for detours when they were rebuilding the highway one side at a time but I'm not sure if they are wide enough for the ultimate highway width. Maybe that one you linked if the goal is 4 lanes each way that far west. East of Guelph Line, if they plan to extend the collector/express then they aren't wide enough for sure and that entire stretch is going to be a big job to widen that much given how elevated the highway is to the surrounding environment.

[sonysnob]

The advanced widening at underpasses for roads below the 401 were constructed for solely for construction staging purposes without a real consideration for the long term widening needs of the 401.

That said, pretty much all of the underpass widening should be more or less incorporated into the future design of the 401. The only real challenges may be at the overpasses at 16 Mile Creek and Campbell Avenue east of Campbellville, particularly if the MTO ends up actually building a westbound climbing lane between the Tremaine Road and Guelph Line interchanges in addition to the proposed widening.