General Updates and News

[JET]

Originally Posted by DartmouthSteve

My small 2 cents as a pedestrian, cyclist, and yes, driver- the bike lane/street on Dahlia is always busy. I like seeing bikes go up and down my street. I like that the vast majority of drivers are respectful to these bikers. I often see cars pull over to give a cyclist space. My street is still a "shortcut" street for drivers, so vehicle traffic is still steady.

I realise Dahlia is not like Wyse Road; the level of congestion is very different, but the "bike lanes cause congestion" argument falls a bit flat for me.

I can see the same critics saying "LRTs cause congestion." But maybe I'm wrong.

Agreed, and let’s face it, it is cars that cause congestion, bikes just keep moving.
Vancouver has a great bike network, we could have the same here.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I can’t really be chill about the holier than thou, “you cyclists are so entitled” BS from certain people on here.

It sucks when people cut down something you genuinely believe in on an internet forum, doesn't it? In the end, though, it's just some random person's opinion, and doesn't really add up in the grand scheme of things. Take it from someone who's gone there, getting wound up over something somebody says on SSP really isn't worth the increase in blood pressure that results from it.

Since nobody asked , my opinion is that it's refreshing that Mayor Fillmore is taking a pragmatic approach to it, and (as it appears) considering all options to provide reasonable living conditions in the city. I also agree that there should be all sorts of transportation modes available to fit everybody's needs, but they need to be planned carefully and need to play well together. If you try to go from a car-centric city directly to a cycling city without trying to build the steps leading up to that (i.e. efficient, safe, decent transit, that covers most routes and give people an attractive alternative to driving their cars - read: time efficient, because most people don't have enough spare time in their days to tool around on a bicycle to get to work or get the groceries, or whatever).

And you can't blame people for anecdotally mentioning that they see roads that are crammed with cars and bike lanes that are almost always vacant with a cyclist passing by every so often. It's not even about the space taken up by cycling lanes that chafe a lot of people. It's the impression that the city is focused upon developing a cycling network to cater to the few, while not appearing to put much effort into improving transit or roadways (still weaving around winter potholes in June is unacceptable, IMHO). Rightly or wrongly, that's how people think. Not everybody has the luxury of living on the peninsula so that they can take advantage of said cycling lanes, either, and apartment/condo living isn't for everybody. Not arguing in any particular direction, just pointing out that everybody doesn't think the same as a cycling advocate, and it's important to recognize that.

IMHO, the cycling network should be built out as planned, but there has to be more thought going into it than just plunking them down without planning around transit, and vehicle traffic areas. There's some of that thinking, but not enough (again IMHO). The fact that the feds opened the floodgates and added huge increases to our population, many of which seem to rely upon motor vehicles, or so it appears by the sudden increase in traffic congestion over the past couple of years, hasn't helped. So bike lanes are fine, but let's be honest - the city has changed drastically recently, and not for the better. We need better planning, and we can't wait for the city's typical glacial speed in building infrastructure, so if they need to pause bike lanes while they figure that out, then fine, but only if it actually results in a measurable increase in speed in planning and rolling out solutions (which probably will still take decades as the past councils have let things become so overwhelmingly behind requirements).

The budgetary squabbling seems silly to me, because everything costs a lot of money, and in the government planning areas, almost always seems to cost more than budgeted for (sometimes by multiples). $10 million... $100 million... whatever. Being efficient about planning and moving along with good process will prevent excess costs much more than not doing something because somebody thinks it will cost too much, getting planning all frigged up, and then do it anyhow at much higher cost (plus all the time lost). Just do it.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

Agreed, and let’s face it, it is cars that cause congestion, bikes just keep moving.
Vancouver has a great bike network, we could have the same here.

Only problem with that, is that people still need to get where they need to go, and will tend to choose the most efficient, time effective way of getting there. Halifax doesn't offer anything better than getting there by car currently, even in current traffic conditions.

So I'd say cars don't cause congestion, lack of reasonable alternatives do.

[JET]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Only problem with that, is that people still need to get where they need to go, and will tend to choose the most efficient, time effective way of getting there. Halifax doesn't offer anything better than getting there by car currently, even in current traffic conditions.

So I'd say cars don't cause congestion, lack of reasonable alternatives do.

For years living in Dartmouth and working at Halifax hospitals, the bus is often the most efficient and cost effective way to get around, I still prefer it even after retiring. Many people though are very tied to their cars.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

For years living in Dartmouth and working at Halifax hospitals, the bus is often the most efficient and cost effective way to get around, I still prefer it even after retiring. Many people though are very tied to their cars.

We all have had different experiences, for sure. When I lived in your neighbourhood, I used 3 different methods to travel to Dalhousie. The bus by far was the worst, walking up the hill to the old DSC terminal, waiting in line while the most aggressive pushed their way through to get onto the bus, standing up in the middle aisle for most of the way trying to not invade the space of others through all the turns, stops and starts, all the time being stuck in car traffic.

During the times that I could keep my $200 car running, it was better than the bus in that I had my space and music, and was surrounded by friends who rode there with me, but was still stuck in the same traffic as the bus.

Taking the ferry with my bike was the most enjoyable way to travel when the weather wasn’t nasty, but it took the longest.

The thing is, there have been some improvements in transit, but it doesn’t feel like we are that much further ahead than we were all those years ago. Where’s our LRT on a dedicated, prioritized line? That, IMHO, would be enough to get a substantial number of people out of their cars. Whether we like it or not, that’s how I see it, not to take away from your experience, mind you.

[JET]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

We all have had different experiences, for sure. When I lived in your neighbourhood, I used 3 different methods to travel to Dalhousie. The bus by far was the worst, walking up the hill to the old DSC terminal, waiting in line while the most aggressive pushed their way through to get onto the bus, standing up in the middle aisle for most of the way trying to not invade the space of others through all the turns, stops and starts, all the time being stuck in car traffic.

During the times that I could keep my $200 car running, it was better than the bus in that I had my space and music, and was surrounded by friends who rode there with me, but was still stuck in the same traffic as the bus.

Taking the ferry with my bike was the most enjoyable way to travel when the weather wasn’t nasty, but it took the longest.

The thing is, there have been some improvements in transit, but it doesn’t feel like we are that much further ahead than we were all those years ago. Where’s our LRT on a dedicated, prioritized line? That, IMHO, would be enough to get a substantial number of people out of their cars. Whether we like it or not, that’s how I see it, not to take away from your experience, mind you.

You had a car going to Dal? Luxury!

[JET]

The bus service in the 70s was not optimal, going to Dal from Dartmouth meant using two separate city bus lines.

[Keith P.]

Before I retired I lived in Dartmouth and worked in DT Halifax and then later in the suburbs above Bedford. When I worked DT I used the bus and it was generally awful - crowded, dirty, and almost never on schedule. It was even worse going home at the end of the day for whatever reason. When I began working in the suburbs I had to take my vehicle to get to work since bus service there was non-existent. Later I reflected that that change was the best one I ever made in my working career because I no longer had to use Transit. I also discovered that I did not get the colds/flu/viruses that I did before when I used the bus.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

You had a car going to Dal? Luxury!

You didn’t see my car!

Seriously, though, I saved money from jobs that I worked and bought an old clunker for $200. I learned how to repair just about anything that would break on it, and bought my parts from junkyards, many of whom would let a trustworthy young person walk through the yard and give you a great price if you removed it yourself. The Bargain Hunter (the paper equivalent of kijiji or facebook marketplace) was good for getting things like cheap mostly-worn tires that would pass a safety inspection. I got batteries with a few starts left in them from the bottle exchange. Etc. Gas was much cheaper then, but often I ran on fumes, or just parked the car in lieu of other methods.

Luxury? Perhaps, but nobody gave me anything. I worked hard for it. Meanwhile, I had friends from more well to do areas whose parents would buy them a car, or lend the ‘spare’ car to them to use for school. It really wasn’t uncommon to drive back then, because transit was so bad. I biked everywhere as well, before it became stylish to do so. The bus was a last resort, but I did use it when required, when I had bus fare (luxury! lol). I paid for my own tuition and books as well, but my parents were gracious enough to let me live at home as long as I continued my education. I was never fortunate enough to live on campus, which would have vastly improved my university experience.

It seems weird to me that people might feel that they should be embarrassed about driving a car, regardless of the circumstances. All part of the race to the bottom I suppose. Back then people would be impressed that a person could accomplish things through their efforts, but now they go on about “privilege” etc. I suppose that’s part of the reason that we’re in the position that we are now, and it’s not looking rosy moving forward.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

The bus service in the 70s was not optimal, going to Dal from Dartmouth meant using two separate city bus lines.

I was too young for university in the 1970s.

I do remember the old Dartmouth buses - they mostly ran those old rounded off GM buses dating back to the 1940s and 50s. I recall them being noisy and rough riding.

I remember when my mom would take me to Halifax on the ferry and we’d go on those slick electric trolley buses, that were great except when the contacts would fall off the wires. It was interesting to a kid to see the driver get out and use this super long rod to put them back in place, though.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Before I retired I lived in Dartmouth and worked in DT Halifax and then later in the suburbs above Bedford. When I worked DT I used the bus and it was generally awful - crowded, dirty, and almost never on schedule. It was even worse going home at the end of the day for whatever reason. When I began working in the suburbs I had to take my vehicle to get to work since bus service there was non-existent. Later I reflected that that change was the best one I ever made in my working career because I no longer had to use Transit. I also discovered that I did not get the colds/flu/viruses that I did before when I used the bus.

That’s not an uncommon experience, or at least it wasn’t. When I had to stand on the bus (more often than not, it seemed), I tried to ride it like a skateboard, with one foot in front of the other, and my knees slightly bent to absorb bumps and maintain balance. It was basically a lottery, though, whether you would actually be able to get on the bus before it filled, or wait for the next one. Same with whomever you would be next to - there always seemed to be a good chance that you would be next to someone coughing or sneezing, or somebody with less than optimal hygiene…

If nothing else, it was always an adventure.

I worked in Burnside for some time as well, and you were almost forced to drive a car if you were like me and worked long hours. Firstly, there were little to no sidewalks, and bus coverage was abysmal. At night the buses barely ran, and waiting at a bus stop at night in Burnside was not great. Biking was a potential life changing experience every time you decided to ride, especially with the proliferation of large trucks and car drivers who suddenly seemed to think that they became Mario Andretti as soon as they entered the park.

On the plus side, the bar has been set low enough that any improvement would be considered amazing, to the point that people can now feel compelled to sing their praises, but a skytrain it ain’t. Maybe the new ferries will be better, but they can only really serve a limited market, and there will still be buses involved for most.

[JET]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I was too young for university in the 1970s.

I do remember the old Dartmouth buses - they mostly ran those old rounded off GM buses dating back to the 1940s and 50s. I recall them being noisy and rough riding.

I remember when my mom would take me to Halifax on the ferry and we’d go on those slick electric trolley buses, that were great except when the contacts would fall off the wires. It was interesting to a kid to see the driver get out and use this super long rod to put them back in place, though.

I recall that the Dartmouth buses would make change, and there was a bus that only went across the bridge, #11?

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Look:

Adding more active transport infrastructure is about providing people with choices about how they get around. I can’t really be chill about the holier than thou, “you cyclists are so entitled” BS from certain people on here. Biking is how I mostly transport myself. It’s how I get my kids around. Listening to people argue against modest investment in decent, convenient and safe infrastructure feels quite honestly like people saying “your family’s safety so simply not as important as my (perceived) convenience as a driver.” It’s genuinely enraging.

$93 million is not a "modest" investment. It is a staggering cost, particularly given the per-user base.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

I recall that the Dartmouth buses would make change, and there was a bus that only went across the bridge, #11?

I think at one point the Halifax buses - either the NSLP electric trolleys or the later Halifax Transit diesels, or both - would also make change, but I stand to be corrected.

It always struck me odd that there was the one trolley that ran across the Macdonald to the Dartmouth Shopping Centre and then reversed its route. I don't recall where it traveled on the peninsula but I don't think I was ever on it - as a kid I had it drilled into me that it was not something you ever took because (IIRC) the fare was higher. Later, around 1963 I think, NSP bought a dozen GM Fishbowl diesel buses to service far-flung areas like the HSC where the electrics could not go. As a kid they just seemed like the lap of luxury by comparison.

As an aside, imagine if NSP was running transit today. I always found it strange that the power company also ran a transit service.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think at one point the Halifax buses - either the NSLP electric trolleys or the later Halifax Transit diesels, or both - would also make change, but I stand to be corrected.

It always struck me odd that there was the one trolley that ran across the Macdonald to the Dartmouth Shopping Centre and then reversed its route. I don't recall where it traveled on the peninsula but I don't think I was ever on it - as a kid I had it drilled into me that it was not something you ever took because (IIRC) the fare was higher. Later, around 1963 I think, NSP bought a dozen GM Fishbowl diesel buses to service far-flung areas like the HSC where the electrics could not go. As a kid they just seemed like the lap of luxury by comparison.

As an aside, imagine if NSP was running transit today. I always found it strange that the power company also ran a transit service.

Except for the ferry, I didn’t use public transit in Hfx/Dart until I came to Dal in 1976, I never saw the electric transit. I think the ‘bridge’ bus might have travelled from Scotia Square to Dart Shop centre.

[Dmajackson]

Anyone who has been on this forum for a long time will not be surprised with my stance on Fillmore's motion. I sent an email into Regional Council clearly outlining why they should vote against Fillmore's motion.

I'm not going to type out a long comment here but I view the cause of congestion to be car accidents and dangerous/illegal driving methods. These are both on the rise lately because drivers have zero fear of getting a traffic ticket. I live and work in HRP territory, yet I never see them pulling cars over, even if someone does something illegal in front of them. HHB and RCMP do pull people over.

I was actually planning to purchase a bike this year to take advantage of the improvements the Bikeways Network has made. At a guaranteed 35 minutes it is a more reliable method than driving, which can get up over 90 minutes. There are three remaining projects planned that could further improve my commute but Fillmore's motion will kill those.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I’m not out on the roads so much these days, but have witnessed drivers pulled over by HRP several times in recent months. So I can’t concur that lack of traffic stops is a root cause of traffic congestion.

I have observed, however, that drivers appear to be less attentive and more aggressive than ever, which is aggravated by the pre-existing traffic congestion that IMHO is a result of the sudden spike in population. There is no way that you can get enough traffic cops out there to make a palpable difference in these problems… especially with the public view on law enforcement these days.

As somebody who has always enjoyed driving, I enjoy it much less so than ever, mostly because drivers are less engaged, less skilful, and more aggressive than I can ever remember. Lack of infrastructure development (i.e. reasonable transit, mostly) and increased population have been a huge part of this.

While I totally support safe biking lanes, just like I support sidewalks for pedestrians, I think it’s a misnomer to assume that cycling lanes are going to take a large bite out of traffic. While cycling will increase with better, more complete infrastructure, IMHO there won’t be enough takers to make a noticeable difference. However, cyclists still deserve to have the choice of a safe space to ride, so I’m all for building them. Pragmatism is still a good thing, though, and I can’t say that the previous council handled it very well.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I have observed, however, that drivers appear to be less attentive and more aggressive than ever, which is aggravated by the pre-existing traffic congestion that IMHO is a result of the sudden spike in population.

As somebody who has always enjoyed driving, I enjoy it much less so than ever, mostly because drivers are less engaged, less skilful, and more aggressive than I can ever remember. Lack of infrastructure development (i.e. reasonable transit, mostly) and increased population have been a huge part of this.

Without putting too fine a point on it, there is far more traffic on our largely unchanged street/road network because of our sharply increased population. And that traffic sometimes behaves very differently.

[EDITED BY MODERATOR]

[LikesBikes]

Funny how nobody talks about the massive size of vehicles impacting traffic flows. I was going out on the 102 the other day and the number of massive F150s being driven by single people (albeit pretty large single people, usually) was crazy. If there was some encouragement for people to drive smaller vehicles would probably alleviate more than removal of any bike lanes.

Also, I find it funny/sad that the mayor used the Province's JRTA thing as a justification for this order since there's been zero communication about this to the public. My understanding from insiders is that the JRTA's plan would propose more transit and AT facilities, but I guess the mayor probably doesn't want facts getting in the way of a good opportunity for wedge-issue politics.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

Funny how nobody talks about the massive size of vehicles impacting traffic flows. I was going out on the 102 the other day and the number of massive F150s being driven by single people (albeit pretty large single people, usually) was crazy. If there was some encouragement for people to drive smaller vehicles would probably alleviate more than removal of any bike lanes.

Also, I find it funny/sad that the mayor used the Province's JRTA thing as a justification for this order since there's been zero communication about this to the public. My understanding from insiders is that the JRTA's plan would propose more transit and AT facilities, but I guess the mayor probably doesn't want facts getting in the way of a good opportunity for wedge-issue politics.

Not specifically the trucks, but in terms of safety there's some element of an unfortunate "arms race" on the highway. In short, you're more likely to survive a crash if driving a larger heavier vehicle. My daily driver is an SUV with capacity for 7 (or 8?) occupants. I am usually solo, sometimes 1-2 passengers. Do I "need" it? No. But it's spacious, comfortable, and handy if I need to move larger items.