Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Makid]

Originally Posted by TMoneySLC

Man did the city really screw the pooch on that whole thing, huh?
That and the aquarium.

Legislators did the screwing to SLC for the Stadium. SLC would have used RDA funds to help with infrastructure. The Legislature blocked SLC from using RDA funds but allowed Sandy to use them. The Legislature then forced SL County to use TRT tax revenue to help cover roughly $30 Million in infrastructure short falls for the Stadium. Peter Corroon, County Mayor at the time, tried to block the use of TRT funds as they would not get paid back for nearly 50 years. This was at the same time that Rocky Anderson pitched the State Fair Park as a location for the Stadium as a win/win/win for the State, County, and Fair Committee. The Legislature ultimately forced SL County to provide the funds.

After Sandy and RSL had secured the funds for the Stadium, the primary Legislator pushing Sandy (Senate Pres I think at the time) announced his retirement. He openly said he pushed for the Stadium in Sandy to show his legacy in the Legislature.

Since then, Legislators have openly pushed to move or direct things away from SLC, particularly to the south end of the Valley. This is from Company Expansions, relocations, even open RFP's that said they would only consider Urban environments (Amazon).

They also started to push negative items on SLC, such as the State Prison. Even after showing it would be cheaper to build and operate in Eagle Mountain by nearly $500 Million, the Legislature overruled the commission and picked SLC. I feel the primary reason for this was that SLC was openly working with developers and companies to lay the groundwork of an Inland Port. This can be seen in many ways such as the Inland Port Commission using the same maps and outlines that SLC had created for an Inland Port.

I do think that many companies though have caught on to what the State Legislature has been doing to SLC and have fought back. One of the bigger ones is Stadler Rail. The Legislature wanted them to build in Davis County and they picked SLC.

In addition to this, many Tech Companies in SLC have joined the Bio-Medical companies in helping to promote SLC over the other areas and using terms such as Tech Lake City to differentiate themselves from the Silicone Slopes group that pushes American Fork to Draper. While the Silicone Slopes group states they cover the area from Ogden to Provo, they really push Draper to American Fork.

As SLC has fought against the State on multiple fronts, seeing it grow with People and Businesses shows just how resilient the City is and what it has to offer over the other areas of the State. I expect that we will continue to see SLC grow in stature and influence over time. I don't think that an NFL stadium being built at the South end of the Valley is bad for SLC but would actually benefit the City. The City would see the benefit from tourism, hotel stays, sales taxes, as well as boosts from the skyline shots. Draper in this instance would have to suffer with the increased traffic and eventual Noise Complaints from games and concerts. Because of this, the State would ensure that the Stadium is close to Transit, which again, benefits SLC more than any other City due to the current and growing transit connections of the City.

Long post/rant over, for now...

[delts145]

Your 'great read' long posts are always welcome Makid!!

Here is a restoration video from Detroit that I thought you guys would enjoy. I know some of you might get a little sad or angry and think if only this were a Pantages Theater video. Time to learn from past mistakes move on and welcome the upcoming beautiful new Theater Tower. IMO, Salt Lake City is adding some very attractive contemporary towers. However, one of the goals should be to create a mix of not only current designs but also authentic classic styles. Using the latest more durable materials and production techniques. Inserting a few vintage classics will make for a far more attractive CBD.

Hopefully, a few of the lurker-only developers will take note and give Salt Lake City a few gems in the future like this vintage Book Tower in Detroit using the latest in high-tech material and moldings production. I think it's time for SLC to add a few more articulated crowns to its growing tower portfolio.

Originally Posted by subterranean

• Video Link

.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Makid

Legislators did the screwing to SLC for the Stadium. SLC would have used RDA funds to help with infrastructure. The Legislature blocked SLC from using RDA funds but allowed Sandy to use them. The Legislature then forced SL County to use TRT tax revenue to help cover roughly $30 Million in infrastructure short falls for the Stadium. Peter Corroon, County Mayor at the time, tried to block the use of TRT funds as they would not get paid back for nearly 50 years. This was at the same time that Rocky Anderson pitched the State Fair Park as a location for the Stadium as a win/win/win for the State, County, and Fair Committee. The Legislature ultimately forced SL County to provide the funds.

After Sandy and RSL had secured the funds for the Stadium, the primary Legislator pushing Sandy (Senate Pres I think at the time) announced his retirement. He openly said he pushed for the Stadium in Sandy to show his legacy in the Legislature.

Since then, Legislators have openly pushed to move or direct things away from SLC, particularly to the south end of the Valley. This is from Company Expansions, relocations, even open RFP's that said they would only consider Urban environments (Amazon).

They also started to push negative items on SLC, such as the State Prison. Even after showing it would be cheaper to build and operate in Eagle Mountain by nearly $500 Million, the Legislature overruled the commission and picked SLC. I feel the primary reason for this was that SLC was openly working with developers and companies to lay the groundwork of an Inland Port. This can be seen in many ways such as the Inland Port Commission using the same maps and outlines that SLC had created for an Inland Port.

I do think that many companies though have caught on to what the State Legislature has been doing to SLC and have fought back. One of the bigger ones is Stadler Rail. The Legislature wanted them to build in Davis County and they picked SLC.

In addition to this, many Tech Companies in SLC have joined the Bio-Medical companies in helping to promote SLC over the other areas and using terms such as Tech Lake City to differentiate themselves from the Silicone Slopes group that pushes American Fork to Draper. While the Silicone Slopes group states they cover the area from Ogden to Provo, they really push Draper to American Fork.

The RSL thing is infuriating, and I feel like very few people know about it or remember it. You seem to know quite a lot about the legislature's bias against SLC over the years, Makid. Maybe you should write an Op-Ed about these shenanigans (RSL, the prison move, the port) for the Trib. Maybe we can prevent more of this crap from happening if we get more people aware of it.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Atlas

The RSL thing is infuriating, and I feel like very few people know about it or remember it. You seem to know quite a lot about the legislature's bias against SLC over the years, Makid. Maybe you should write an Op-Ed about these shenanigans (RSL, the prison move, the port) for the Trib. Maybe we can prevent more of this crap from happening if we get more people aware of it.

I have thought about that but I don't want to burn any bridges with members of the State Legislature as I have been working on increasing my relationship multiple Legislators to get more spending and priority for transit along the Wasatch Front.

I have also been working on getting more support for the Rio Grande plan from Hatman. Many are interested but I am trying to find champions from each party, in both the Senate and House, that can all work together to push it.

If things get worse again with regards to the City from the Legislature, I may reach out about an Op-Ed using a pseudonym or something to avoid anything coming back to me directly.

[meman]

Just for fun, does anyone out there in forumland want to guess when the tower crane will go up at the Astra Tower site?

I'm guessing March or April.

By the way, concrete is being poured at the site today.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Makid

I have thought about that but I don't want to burn any bridges with members of the State Legislature as I have been working on increasing my relationship multiple Legislators to get more spending and priority for transit along the Wasatch Front.

I have also been working on getting more support for the Rio Grande plan from Hatman. Many are interested but I am trying to find champions from each party, in both the Senate and House, that can all work together to push it.

If things get worse again with regards to the City from the Legislature, I may reach out about an Op-Ed using a pseudonym or something to avoid anything coming back to me directly.

Ah, well best of luck with all of that. Thanks for your informed perspective, as always.

Originally Posted by meman

By the way, concrete is being poured at the site today.

Thanks for the update! Let's go Astra!

Edit: here's a shot from the webcam.

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by delts145

Your 'great read' long posts are always welcome Makid!!

Here is a restoration video from Detroit that I thought you guys would enjoy. I know some of you might get a little sad or angry and think if only this were a Pantages Theater video. Time to learn from past mistakes move on and welcome the upcoming beautiful new Theater Tower. IMO, Salt Lake City is adding some very attractive contemporary towers. However, one of the goals should be to create a mix of not only current designs but also authentic classic styles. Using the latest more durable materials and production techniques. Inserting a few vintage classics will make for a far more attractive CBD. .

I agree. I do believe that the Pantages would have been a prime example for adaptive reuse. Alas, as you say we need to look to the future. I’m largely happy with how the old Auerbach’s facade was saved, and really wish that more of this approach could be taken before we loose ALL of our history. The thing about it is, once something is gone, we can’t bring it back. Empty lots are one thing, but there are pieces of a growing city out there that are worth taking a closer look at preserving as best we can.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by TMoneySLC

I agree. I do believe that the Pantages would have been a prime example for adaptive reuse. Alas, as you say we need to look to the future. I’m largely happy with how the old Auerbach’s facade was saved, and really wish that more of this approach could be taken before we loose ALL of our history. The thing about it is, once something is gone, we can’t bring it back. Empty lots are one thing, but there are pieces of a growing city out there that are worth taking a closer look at preserving as best we can.

TMoney, Did I miss something about the historic Auerbach buildings, or did you mean the Brooks Arcade Facade? I know the original Auerbachs department store did have an ornate facade but was covered over during the '50s or '60s when so many beautiful facades were ruined with the quickly passing trends of the times. Then again it was given a little bit of a positive do-over when it became an office building. The latest office do-over will never equal the original though.

Also, I'm wondering if the age of demolition of historic commercial structures is over now for Salt Lake City? Of course, single-family residential is another discussion but does anyone know of larger commercial structures such as the Shubrick or Arrow Press that are endangered?

There is one mid-sized structure and I guess from reports it is being demolished as I write this. That would be the old Carlton on South Temple, and I guess the adj structure also. The fact is that it's South Temple and those two structures did present a historic and charming frontage for South Temple. My question is what will take their place? That's one site where South Temple had better be well compensated.

What if tomorrow a new apartment development were announced for downtown somewhere, perhaps West Temple, and it was going to look exactly like one of these buildings with one exception. The exception would be that it would be ten stories in order to accommodate downtown's rising heights and increased density. Would any of you be disappointed? It would have all of the seismic, material, utility upgrades, with the latest in high-tech vintage moldings and elemental trimming inside and out. Would any of you be disappointed? I don't think so. I know I would be as excited as a child on Christmas eve.

Personally, I like the new Federal Courthouse, and I'm very excited about the upcoming Domain Tower across the street and the addition of the CCH. However, I think that especially West Temple is going to need a few taller authentic vintage-style designs mixed in or its future is going to be one dimensional. The Holiday Inn Express or the Plaza does not count as an additional variety. I'm hoping that current trends on those blocks will doom them both to the wrecking ball.

Shubrick Building


Arrow Press Building. I had forgotten that adjacent red brick beauty on the left had even existed

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Makid

...
Since then, Legislators have openly pushed to move or direct things away from SLC, particularly to the south end of the Valley. This is from Company Expansions, relocations, even open RFP's that said they would only consider Urban environments (Amazon).

Yeah, I read that Pluralsight originally wanted to build a high-rise downtown, but the state convinced them to build out in Draper.

[rockies]

Originally Posted by delts145

Personally, I like the new Federal Courthouse, and I'm very excited about the upcoming Domain Tower across the street and the addition of the CCH. However, I think that especially West Temple is going to need a few taller authentic vintage-style designs mixed in or its future is going to be one dimensional. The Holiday Inn Express or the Plaza does not count as an additional variety. I'm hoping that current trends on those blocks will doom them both to the wrecking ball.

I LOVE the new Federal Courthouse. It's one of the only buildings downtown I've heard friends who are not at all interested in architecture at is absolutely beautiful. Super excited for SW Temple

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Makid

Legislators did the screwing to SLC for the Stadium. SLC would have used RDA funds to help with infrastructure. The Legislature blocked SLC from using RDA funds but allowed Sandy to use them. The Legislature then forced SL County to use TRT tax revenue to help cover roughly $30 Million in infrastructure short falls for the Stadium. Peter Corroon, County Mayor at the time, tried to block the use of TRT funds as they would not get paid back for nearly 50 years. This was at the same time that Rocky Anderson pitched the State Fair Park as a location for the Stadium as a win/win/win for the State, County, and Fair Committee. The Legislature ultimately forced SL County to provide the funds.

After Sandy and RSL had secured the funds for the Stadium, the primary Legislator pushing Sandy (Senate Pres I think at the time) announced his retirement. He openly said he pushed for the Stadium in Sandy to show his legacy in the Legislature.

Since then, Legislators have openly pushed to move or direct things away from SLC, particularly to the south end of the Valley. This is from Company Expansions, relocations, even open RFP's that said they would only consider Urban environments (Amazon).

They also started to push negative items on SLC, such as the State Prison. Even after showing it would be cheaper to build and operate in Eagle Mountain by nearly $500 Million, the Legislature overruled the commission and picked SLC. I feel the primary reason for this was that SLC was openly working with developers and companies to lay the groundwork of an Inland Port. This can be seen in many ways such as the Inland Port Commission using the same maps and outlines that SLC had created for an Inland Port.

I do think that many companies though have caught on to what the State Legislature has been doing to SLC and have fought back. One of the bigger ones is Stadler Rail. The Legislature wanted them to build in Davis County and they picked SLC.

In addition to this, many Tech Companies in SLC have joined the Bio-Medical companies in helping to promote SLC over the other areas and using terms such as Tech Lake City to differentiate themselves from the Silicone Slopes group that pushes American Fork to Draper. While the Silicone Slopes group states they cover the area from Ogden to Provo, they really push Draper to American Fork.

As SLC has fought against the State on multiple fronts, seeing it grow with People and Businesses shows just how resilient the City is and what it has to offer over the other areas of the State. I expect that we will continue to see SLC grow in stature and influence over time. I don't think that an NFL stadium being built at the South end of the Valley is bad for SLC but would actually benefit the City. The City would see the benefit from tourism, hotel stays, sales taxes, as well as boosts from the skyline shots. Draper in this instance would have to suffer with the increased traffic and eventual Noise Complaints from games and concerts. Because of this, the State would ensure that the Stadium is close to Transit, which again, benefits SLC more than any other City due to the current and growing transit connections of the City.

Long post/rant over, for now...

Right. Salt Lake was fucked over by the corrupt legislature. They absolutely made it impossible for the city to develop a stadium downtown by blocking RDA funds and then turned around and waved that rule for Sandy and Dave Checketts.

Salt Lake did everything it could to keep the stadium in the city - even proposing the fairgrounds site. It was a total bullshit move the legislature did and I'm not quite sure why the city didn't litigate the decision.

Either way, building the stadium out in Sandy was a huge mistake. It sits in a sea of nothing and is even more congested than the area around the Viv despite frequently having smaller crowds.

And there's been little progress of turning that area into anything thriving since the stadium opened over ten years ago.

The legislature has consistently shit on Salt Lake because it's the one area of the state they have zero control over. You also see it with how the homeless shelter planning is going, the prison site and the inland port.

It's my wish, as impractical as it may seem, that Salt Lake one day secedes from the state.

The irony is that Utah would be nothing without the three most liberal communities in the state: Salt Lake, Park City and Moab.

[Boz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

It's my wish, as impractical as it may seem, that Salt Lake one day secedes from the state.

Ha! How ridiculous is that?

Heck off, commie.

[mattreedah]

Some people on this forum don't realize that not everyone here is a liberal democrat/progressive/left wing

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Boz

Ha! How ridiculous is that?

Heck off, commie.

What is ridiculous is some on this forum have succumbed to name calling and labeling people as “commies” on a forum that is supposed to be about development. What a shame. I’ll wait for a one liner comeback....drumroll

[Boz]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

What is ridiculous is some on this forum have succumbed to name calling and labeling people as “commies” on a forum that is supposed to be about development. What a shame. I’ll wait for a one liner comeback....drumroll

And some people (like you) don't know how to take a damn joke. Now that is what's ridiculous. What a shame.

It was a play off of his name. If you couldn't figure that out then go ahead and be mad.

[Boz]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

Some people on this forum don't realize that not everyone here is a liberal democrat/progressive/left wing

The majority of people on this forum are probably more liberal leaning but not all of us. Reading their gripes and wishful thinking is just part of being on this forum.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

What is ridiculous is some on this forum have succumbed to name calling and labeling people as “commies” on a forum that is supposed to be about development. What a shame. I’ll wait for a one liner comeback....drumroll

To be fair Comrade is a self proclaimed Communist. So I don’t think he would be offended by the name.

[EPdesign]

Leave comrade alone. He/she/other is entitled to say or wish whatever. As much as I don’t often agree with comrade, comrade has added arguments that makes for good conversation. And the whole liberal conservative conversation on this forum is laugh worthy. We are here because we are development nerds.

[Dallas Snob]

I doubt its ever been done, but it would be intersting to study what architectural style and then what materials Conservative vs Liberal vs Communist would be/use. Im assuming that most people on this forum have read the multitude of books and papers on Mormonisms sacred architecture and its development which is fascinating in and of itself.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Boz

And some people (like you) don't know how to take a damn joke. Now that is what's ridiculous. What a shame.

It was a play off of his name. If you couldn't figure that out then go ahead and be mad.

I can take a joke when it’s funny, wasn’t to me I guess. Comedy is subjective so it may have been funny to others. Will give you the benefit of the doubt that it was just a joke. Some of my experiences in life may have made me over react