PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Philadelphia currently has three office skyscrapers going up -- CITC, CHoP, and Cira II. Three!! Do you know how many other cities have that many? New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and ... that's about it AFAIK. And we have resi highrises out the wazoo, recently completed and under construction and being announced, as well as crazy infill radiating out ever deeper into the city. 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th streets north of Girard are being rebuilt even as we speak.

I don't know if it is fair to compare skyline construction / proposals . I mean shit man , some mentioned cities are way larger
in area , population and skyline density . Philly has been experiencing one hell of a construction boom ever since Rouse bit
city halls Wm. Penn in the ass by several hundred feet .
So for the sake of comparison, lets leave NYC , Chicago , LA and Houston out of it . All four are way ahead in " under construction "
projects . S.F. has one less @ 14 UC , and Miami is going absolutely ape shit with 42 sites under construction . Damn , even Denver
has 19 sites UC .
I don't want to include " Proposals " because we all know what happens to most of those wild ass ideas . However , all this is not to
take away from Philly's resent growing pains and I suspect it will continue as long as the market can bare .
So good luck and no worries mate .

[1487]

Originally Posted by Outta here

I don't know if it is fair to compare skyline construction / proposals . I mean shit man , some mentioned cities are way larger
in area , population and skyline density . Philly has been experiencing one hell of a construction boom ever since Rouse bit
city halls Wm. Penn in the ass by several hundred feet .
So for the sake of comparison, lets leave NYC , Chicago , LA and Houston out of it . All four are way ahead in " under construction "
projects . S.F. has one less @ 14 UC , and Miami is going absolutely ape shit with 42 sites under construction . Damn , even Denver
has 19 sites UC .
I don't want to include " Proposals " because we all know what happens to most of those wild ass ideas . However , all this is not to
take away from Philly's resent growing pains and I suspect it will continue as long as the market can bare .
So good luck and no worries mate .

Well when the conversation is ONLY about highrises what you're saying is true. But so much activity here is in low rise and townhouses that just comparing our skyscraper numbers doesn't give a true snapshot of the level of activity here. For example, you aren't going to find Navy Yard low rise or the level of townhouse development in NYC or San Fran because of the density there. If you build in those places (and Miami to some extent) it's mostly vertical due for various reasons. Unlike most cities outside of the SunBelt Philly has thousands of acres of vacant land or land occupied by vacant buildings and much of that is being replaced with new construction. I'd love to see metrics on building permits per capita to compare activity in various cities.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by 1487

Well when the conversation is ONLY about highrises what you're saying is true. But so much activity here is in low rise and townhouses that just comparing our skyscraper numbers doesn't give a true snapshot of the level of activity here. For example, you aren't going to find Navy Yard low rise or the level of townhouse development in NYC or San Fran because of the density there. If you build in those places (and Miami to some extent) it's mostly vertical due for various reasons. Unlike most cities outside of the SunBelt Philly has thousands of acres of vacant land or land occupied by vacant buildings and much of that is being replaced with new construction. I'd love to see metrics on building permits per capita to compare activity in various cities.

there is data on permits and apartment delivery, Philly is improving but not at the same levels of activity relative to others.

End of the day Philly continues to be a solid job market but not one attracting a ton of new jobs. The ability to attract jobs is key truly on this area we need to really step up the game. Meds and Eds is not sustainable

[1487]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

there is data on permits and apartment delivery, Philly is improving but not at the same levels of activity relative to others.

End of the day Philly continues to be a solid job market but not one attracting a ton of new jobs. The ability to attract jobs is key truly on this area we need to really step up the game. Meds and Eds is not sustainable

I wouldnt say they aren't sustainable, I would say you need more. They are relatively stable and sustainable which is one reason why Philly didn't totally crash during recession. Eds rarely shrink- they just get bigger over time. As for Meds, people are living longer and the population only goes up- bodes well for the need for a massive healthcare infrastructure and medical research.

[1487]

Its very hard to compare Philadelphia because its a county and a city but here are some permit stats for the first half of year from various counties per census data- residential only

Fulton (Atlanta): 1829
Kings (Seattle): 2224
Suffolk (boston): 108
DC: 218
Philly: 410
Cook (chicago): 891
San Fran : 54

I should've kept track of total # of units as well.

[Yurkek]

Originally Posted by 1487

Its very hard to compare Philadelphia because its a county and a city but here are some permit stats for the first half of year from various counties per census data- residential only

Fulton (Atlanta): 1829
Kings (Seattle): 2224
Suffolk (boston): 108
DC: 218
Philly: 410
Cook (chicago): 891
San Fran : 54

I should've kept track of total # of units as well.

Are there numbers on how many new units/houses were added in Philly in the last 5years? How many were added each year?

[Koernerstr32]

Originally Posted by 1487

I was in chicago and there is little office construction going on and relative to the size of their skyline I'd say there isn't as much being built as in Philly right now. I probably saw 6-10 cranes on major high rise projects during my 4 days there.

Chicago is a very big city so u may have missed a few (many) cranes...plus there are many developments currently underway with no crane currently up (Streeterville, Rivernorth, Loop, West Loop, South Loop etc). Unlike Philly, not all high rise construction get their own special thread (see link below and keep in mind that under " Highrise Projects & Construction v7" there are many more high rises under construction without their own respective thread). Happy reading...some gorgeous views...u may want to rethink ur statement after ur last visit (I'm assuming u were visiting Chicago very recently). Not sure what crane comparison has to do with office/ residential/hotel construction...number of cranes doesn't tell one anything unless u know/investigate the city of what exactly is being built or under construction.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/tags.php?tag=chicago

[jjv007]

I think all of you are underestimating what's going on in other cities, but this is a Philadelphia thread so I'll leave it at that so as to not derail further.

[Daario]

We should chill with the city vs city stuff.

[Koernerstr32]

Originally Posted by Daario

We should chill with the city vs city stuff.

Bingo! Philly is growing with all kinds of development...let's enjoy and be proud! Stop comparing to other cities but marvel at Philly's development and potential

[TechTalkGuy]

Speaking of Philly, what I find very attractive about Philadelphia is that if you overlay a map of Manhattan on top of Philadelphia (North Philly to South Philly), you have the same features.

Let's see: Two rivers that surround the miles of skyscrapers.
Now, Philly can build skyscrapers from Spring Garden all the way down to the stadiums if developers can justify building supertall condos.

We are seeing that happen right now in fact.
We are also seeing Philly extend across the Schuylkill river to the west and potential development across the Delaware to the east.

By design, Philadelphia also has potential to tunnel more subway lines.
Don't forget, the Northeast Spur (Roosevelt Boulevard subway line) has a tunnel.
See if you can find the entrance near the old Sears Tower before it was demolished decades ago.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

By design, Philadelphia also has potential to tunnel more subway lines.
Don't forget, the Northeast Spur (Roosevelt Boulevard subway line) has a tunnel.
See if you can find the entrance near the old Sears Tower before it was demolished decades ago.

They built one station at the old Sears building, which was destroyed when the building was demolished. There was never a completed tunnel.

[1487]

We need to see action on 1910 Chestnut, 1911 Walnut, 3650 Market, 709 Chestnut and SLS in the last quarter of this year. A lot of projects have gone months without much of an update from the developers. In spite of all the activity citywide, we really only have a handful of CBD hi rises under construction right now.

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by 1487

Its very hard to compare Philadelphia because its a county and a city but here are some permit stats for the first half of year from various counties per census data- residential only

[...]
San Fran : 54

I should've kept track of total # of units as well.

54? Good. Lord. San Francisco is so completely FUBARed.

[McBane]

Drove thru 2nd Street in Old City this weekend. Can anyone tell me what the massive lot on 2nd b/w Race and Arch is going to be?

Also, the Bridge is looking fabulous, both from the BFB and along Race.

[Noam215]

Originally Posted by McBane

Drove thru 2nd Street in Old City this weekend. Can anyone tell me what the massive lot on 2nd b/w Race and Arch is going to be?

Also, the Bridge is looking fabulous, both from the BFB and along Race.

http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/old-city/this-looks-weird-the-national-is-gone

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Noam215

http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/old-city/this-looks-weird-the-national-is-gone

That really sucks, the National was such a unique building. Between this, Jewlers Row, and the former Please Touch Museum, I might be starting to become a preservationist!

[wondertwinalpha]

Originally Posted by McBane

Drove thru 2nd Street in Old City this weekend. Can anyone tell me what the massive lot on 2nd b/w Race and Arch is going to be?

From June 2016

The current plan calls for the re-creation of the now-demolished building's orange facade and the replacement of its original signs.

The partnership plans to start construction late this year at the now-empty 46,000-square-foot lot near Second Street and Elfreth's Alley, where the long-vacant National Products building had stood, Hare said. It aims to complete the six-story, 192-unit development by spring 2018.

http://articles.philly.com/2016-06-03/business/73519947_1_wilmington-old-city-buccini-pollin-group

[apetrella802]

Originally Posted by McBane

That really sucks, the National was such a unique building. Between this, Jewlers Row, and the former Please Touch Museum, I might be starting to become a preservationist!

I remember back in the 80s that the NE corner of 17th & Locust Sts was threatened with demolition for a very banal glass box of 17 stories. The buildings in jeopardy were a Tuder Revival(arts & crafts c.1900) building, two twin Georgian Revival town houses and a magnificent Trumbauer Beaux Arts town house built for EC Knight. All were saved and a year or two after that the city adopted the 1988 plan that pushed skyscrapers to the North of Locust and West of Broad just were the largest and tallest building are being built. This left the large nexus of late 19th c early 20 c building intact and developed large underdeveloped areas to the North of them. A win/win as they say.

Putting a glass box in Jewelers' Row would be an equally disasterous thing for what makes Philadelphia's architectural fabric so rich and varied.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by McBane

That really sucks, the National was such a unique building. Between this, Jewlers Row, and the former Please Touch Museum, I might be starting to become a preservationist!

Great, glad to have you. There's NO reason why one can't be pro-development and still be a preservationist. If all this City had was "development" and no preservation before too long we'd be no different then (boring) Atlanta.