Gas Prices

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I don't support a removal of the carbon tax simply because it sabotages the whole point of the tax. I agree that it's a cheap political shot.

I'm carbureted, so I have to tune for the altitude I normally live at and that means I'm running overly lean by the time I arrive in Chilliwack. I had to install a knock sensor because otherwise my coastal visits and using cheaper ethanol blends would destroy my engine with spark knock.

No, I wouldn’t remove it either. However if I were Horgan I’d delay the April 1 increase as a sign he understands the effect it has, particularly on suburban residents. The same goes for Trudeau’s planned increase on the same date.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Mine is a Chevy Bolt. There's no doubt that owning an EV is a lot less attractive without a charger to use at your residence. Vancouver's required electrical connections for chargers in all condo parking stalls for several years now, so there must be more units coming on the market both new and used that would support it.

EV prices are still high, but boy are they ever great to drive and cheap to run.

EV charging in condos may require some "expensive" retrofits, but compared to other expenses in strata living, it's really not too bad (and it's a feature add). Getting it through strata councils and AGMs is another matter.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Cool, thanks.
Tesla has had a number of recalls and the price is high.

I've had mine coming on 4 years. 2 "recalls" that replaced minor parts I never had a problem with.

The Bolt's battery was catching fire, they've had a massive recall of hundreds of thousands of cars, told people not to park them inside, and production has been shutdown for months.

I'm assuming aberdeen has a model year before all of these issues.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It might be irrelevant from a pricing standpoint but if the BC NDP think they can go through with increase on April 1 and not take some body blows they’re mistaken. Kevin Falcon is not Andrew Wilkinson. He’ll for the jugular with it. The NDP needs to remember they’re supposed to be the party of ordinary working people. If we wanted out of touch enviro-zealots, the Greens would be in power right now.

The same BC Libs that started the carbon tax?

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

personally i would avoid Tesla. they were great when there was no other competition, though now they're pretty much the same price or higher, and of a lower quality.

my next daily driver will most likely be electric, though not a Tesla. the free superchargers were 100% a selling feature and would have maybe swayed me, but without that bonus there really is no point with all the other companies now going electric.

i really like the Lucid Air, looks phenomenal, though same issue as Tesla as it is more of a tech company vs manufacturing company. i wouldn't get one, no matter how much i love it.

One thing going for Tesla is there are no dealers. Tesla sells direct to the consumer. Have you give to a ford dealership lately some cats have a $5-10k markup.

I would highly recommend the taycan even though it has less range than the Tesla. But it’s an extremely well built car that handles as good as it’s ice counterparts

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The same BC Libs that started the carbon tax?

Yes, just because they implemented doesn't mean they won't call to delay the increase. Not sure why this seems hard for people to understand. The province is awash in money from the PPT, the revenue isn't critical. Same with the Feds who are making out like bandits on the GST on fuel.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The province is awash in money from the PPT, the revenue isn't critical.

Is it more fun in your alternate reality? "B.C. Budget 2022: Province to run $5.4B deficit"

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Is it more fun in your alternate reality? "B.C. Budget 2022: Province to run $5.4B deficit"

I can guarantee the provincial budget deficit will come in at the end of the fiscal year well shy of that. However, if you're concerned about gov't revenue you could always lobby to repeal the old-growth logging policies they brought in and restore about $1 billion to the province's coffers over the next couple years.

But by all means, cheer for the NDP to blindly push ahead with these increases, it will only help cost them the next election. Like I said, they still seem to think they're facing the hapless Andrew Wilkinson.

[Klazu]

EV drivers in Europe haven't been laughing in the past few months. Electricity prices in many countries are priced on international markets, which can have prices swing wildly depending on if it rains in Norway or wind blows in Denmark. Several people in Finland were shocked this winter to have the price of market electricity increase six-fold in just a week and I know people that paid €3,000 in a month to heat their homes, most of which do also have wood burning fireplaces to assist in the heating. Charging your EV was more expensive than buying gas on those peak weeks.

Price of electricity is bound to increase here as well with more usage and almost no new capacity. Add to that dry summers which will cause fluctuating prices. Also new taxes are certain to be applied to milk EV cars just like petrol cars, so we will all be paying hefty sums for driving, regardless of what your car runs on.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Klazu

EV drivers in Europe haven't been laughing in the past few months. Electricity prices in many countries are priced on international markets, which can have prices swing wildly depending on if it rains in Norway or wind blows in Denmark. Several people in Finland were shocked this winter to have the price of market electricity increase six-fold in just a week and I know people that paid €3,000 in a month to heat their homes, most of which do also have wood burning fireplaces to assist in the heating. Charging your EV was more expensive than buying gas on those peak weeks.

Price of electricity is bound to increase here as well with more usage and almost no new capacity. Add to that dry summers which will cause fluctuating prices. Also new taxes are certain to be applied to milk EV cars just like petrol cars, so we will all be paying hefty sums for driving, regardless of what your car runs on.

that is like what happened in texas during their ice/winter storm. it was costing people like $500 to "fill up" their battery

[mezzanine]

I have a Model 3, SR+. TBH, it's a really fun car to drive.

-base model 3s have autopilot, not FSD, but really an enhanced lane-keeping cruise-control, but this is really good on highways and stop-and-go traffic

-the car has a internet browser on the GUI that can be accessed while you drive. on paper this sounds like a recipe for disaster (and can be if you are careless) it is *really* useful for weather reports and looking at online hours/schedules and whatnot

- no carplay but the tesla GUI is fast and more intuitive than other manufacturers

-no transmission! i thought all EVs had no transmissions but IIRC the nissan leaf has one, with attendant maintenance needed

-mobile maintenance visits are really nice, unsure if other manufacturers do this. Had to call them out to replace license plate lights under warrantee

- and yeah, this car goes like stink, lots of torque, low centre of gravity for cornering. really like going onto onramps and up the cut on hwy1

------


if you have reliable access to level 2 charging this really can be a daily driver with no regrets. If you only have access to level 1 charging, it's really for short trips, otherwise you do have to plan for charging, which is a drag.

mos def IMO the best way to make people go electric is to install more EV chargers, everywhere

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The Bolt's battery was catching fire, they've had a massive recall of hundreds of thousands of cars, told people not to park them inside, and production has been shutdown for months.

I'm assuming aberdeen has a model year before all of these issues.

They're replacing the batteries in every Bolt ever made because they found a random production defect that they have no way to trace and so all the batteries are suspect. But the defects are rare, so far about a dozen fires in well over 140,000 vehicles, so about 1 chance in 10,000. And most of them have been in 2019 models in the southern US (mine is a 2017). I'm not aware of any fires that have occurred in Canada.

This is actually going to work out great for me because I'm most of the way through the 8-year / 160,000 km battery warranty. I'll get a new battery with higher capacity (the new batteries are about 10% bigger than the one on my car) with a fresh 8-year 160K km warranty. It's almost like getting a brand new car again.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This is actually going to work out great for me because I'm most of the way through the 8-year / 160,000 km battery warranty. I'll get a new battery with higher capacity (the new batteries are about 10% bigger than the one on my car) with a fresh 8-year 160K km warranty. It's almost like getting a brand new car again.

Wow that's nice, no complaints.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yeah getting up there, but nowhere near gas. More like 50% of the cost instead of 15-20%.

Just wait for fast charging companies to be allowed to charge by the KWh instead of time. In Washington State they now charge by KWh and it is expensive. I would say more expensive there than gas is.

200-250km of range was 40USD. A full tank of gas filled up on the way back from seattle (520km of range $75).

Living with an EV where you aren't spending half your time looking for, waiting for a spot or waiting for it to charge really necessitates having home charging and not just a shared plug in your underground.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theKB

Just wait for fast charging companies to be allowed to charge by the KWh instead of time. In Washington State they now charge by KWh and it is expensive. I would say more expensive there than gas is.

200-250km of range was 40USD. A full tank of gas filled up on the way back from seattle (520km of range $75).

Living with an EV where you aren't spending half your time looking for, waiting for a spot or waiting for it to charge really necessitates having home charging and not just a shared plug in your underground.

What companies? What rates?

Fast charging should be limited use for road trips anyway. Electricity is still very cheap in BC at the residential level.

I'm 4 years in with a shared plug in my parkade and it's been great.

So much FUD around EVs, from non-EV drivers, who are simultaneously complaining about gas prices. It's like a cult.

See this for pricing:

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What companies? What rates?

Fast charging should be limited use for road trips anyway. Electricity is still very cheap in BC at the residential level.

I'm 4 years in with a shared plug in my parkade and it's been great.

So much FUD around EVs, from non-EV drivers, who are simultaneously complaining about gas prices. It's like a cult.

See this for pricing:

You didn't include the fact that an EV Kia Soul costs ~$20k more than an EX gas model (almost double). You would have to drive around 150000 (updated - not 1 million) KM to make up the difference.

Ron.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

You didn't include the fact that an EV Kia Soul costs ~$20k more than an EX gas model (almost double). You would have to drive around 1 million KM to make up the difference.

No doubt about it that EVs are currently too expensive to make it into the mass market, but that will become less of an issue with technological advancements.

Charging at home is cheap, but it's a lot more expensive if you have to pay to charge at a public charger, especially at fast chargers.

On the other hand, EVs have very low maintenance requirements. There's no oil to change, no spark plugs, no fuel injectors, mufflers or catalytic converters, and brake pads and rotors/drums get almost zero wear because of regenerative braking. It doesn't make that big a deal for people who lease a new car every 3 years, but for those of us who buy for the long haul you can save a LOT of money.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

You didn't include the fact that an EV Kia Soul costs ~$20k more than an EX gas model (almost double). You would have to drive around 1 million KM to make up the difference.

Ron.

For the same trim level? Usually the EV is not the base model. Plus less maintenance.

The argument was that electricity was almost as expensive as gas. This is not true in the slightest.

Anyway, I'm not sure where your math is coming from. 1,000,000 kms would cost $155,200 in gas, or $22,200 in electricity.

Edit: Breakeven on energy costs alone is around 150,000 kms. Not bad at all.

[jollyburger]

^^ There's also EV rebates.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

For the same trim level? Usually the EV is not the base model. Plus less maintenance.

The argument was that electricity was almost as expensive as gas. This is not true in the slightest.

Anyway, I'm not sure where your math is coming from. 1,000,000 kms would cost $155,200 in gas, or $22,200 in electricity.

Edit: Breakeven on energy costs alone is around 150,000 kms. Not bad at all.

My mistake on the calculation.. I was looking at the wrong line in your chart. You are correct.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

^^ There's also EV rebates.

This was taking into account the rebates applied.. pricing per the Kia Canada site... after rebate the Kia Soul EV is ~$42k vs the gas EX (not base) model at $23k.

Ron.