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[Loco101]

I can't believe that we still have Catholic Schools in Ontario.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I can't believe that we still have Catholic Schools in Ontario.

At this point, I think it's just in name. As far as I know, there are no priests or Sisters, the religion isn't forced on anyone (in fact, a large proportion of students are from immigrant families and not Catholic). They are some of the better schools.

I don't have any kids of family members in Catholic school. This is just based on what I hear on TV and from some co-workers.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

At this point, I think it's just in name. As far as I know, there are no priests or Sisters, the religion isn't forced on anyone (in fact, a large proportion of students are from immigrant families and not Catholic). They are some of the better schools.

I don't have any kids of family members in Catholic school. This is just based on what I hear on TV and from some co-workers.

I went to Catholic school from 1998-2011. AFAIK you have to be Christian, but not specifically Catholic, to attend. It's not uncommon for people whose last time in a church was their baptism, which may or may not have been only for the purpose of getting into "better" schools. But even the Catholic people, by far most were non-practicing. I'd see maybe 5 classmates out of 25 at church on the weekends, and I suppose a few of them could have been going to other churches but well under 50%.

But yeah, no priests or nuns actually teaching. Teachers have to be Catholic (or at least Christian, not sure). We did have a religion class every year, which in elementary school most mostly a lot of Sacrament prep for Reconciliation, Communion, and Confirmation. The non-Catholic kids opted out of the Sacraments but still had to take part in the classes. We had a school mass about once a month I would say, usually on a Tuesday morning.

High school was pretty much the same, except even less people are practicing in any way - I still think you had to be Christian to attend but I'm not so sure about it. We had an in-school chaplain and a small chapel. 1 religion class each year with grade 11 being dedicated to World Religions. We learned about their beliefs, and went on field trips to a Sikh temple, the Islamic education centre/mosque in Mississauga, and I think also a Hindu temple. I found it to be the most interesting year, I don't really remember what the other classes were about very much, except that it got a bit intellectual with philosophy of things.

Until it started getting philosophical it was dead boring because I had heard everything a million times in church, the classes were aimed at the people who weren't going to church. But with typical teenage rebellion, I remember a lot of time being spent with angsty teenagers challenging everything and teachers explaining the Church's views (and honestly, trying to present them in the most palatable way for some things). I mostly wished I could spend that time taking another shop class or something.

Of course I have no way of telling how different it was from public school, since I never attended, and I lived on a farm so I didn't get to just "hang around town" with kids form other schools. My perception was that there was more drugs/sex over at the public school, but there was also certainly drugs and sex at my school too so it was just a matter of degree.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I can't believe that we still have Catholic Schools in Ontario.

Still have them here as well. I went to one as well years ago. Had nuns as teachers.

In Highschool we had comparative religion classes. Got to learn what was similar and what was different about most major religions.

The city I live in was predominantly Catholic so the Public Schools are the catholic one and the separate are the non denominational ones.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by jonny24

I went to Catholic school from 1998-2011. AFAIK you have to be Christian, but not specifically Catholic, to attend.

Nope, it's publicly funded so anyone is free to attend (and you don't need any "proof" of your religious affiliation one way or the other). Of course, not many from non-Christian backgrounds would choose to send their kids there. The curriculum is the same provincially-mandated one as in the public boards except as you mention, with the addition of a religion class.

I went to Catholic school as well, and yeah, it was basically the same experience as public school except that we had to wear a uniform and had monthly non-mandatory masses along with the aforementioned religion classes. As for Catholic schools being better than public, probably depends on the school board. Definitely not (or at least wasn't) the case in Toronto.

It's a dumb and unnecessary relic, but unfortunately is constitutionally protected (coincidentally, based on the same sort minority religious accommodations that are so popular again today!).

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Nope, it's publicly funded so anyone is free to attend (and you don't need any "proof" of your religious affiliation one way or the other). Of course, not many from non-Christian backgrounds would choose to send their kids there. The curriculum is the same provincially-mandated one as in the public boards except as you mention, with the addition of a religion class.

It's a dumb and unnecessary relic, but unfortunately is constitutionally protected (coincidentally, based on the same sort minority religious accommodations that are so popular again today!).

It's a little more complicated though, in that more than 90 percent fo the students are baptized Catholics. In Ontario, most Catholic boards started admitting more non-Catholic students a few years ago, but you have to apply and basically sign off that you're cool with your kids being Catholicized. The biggest boards, in Toronto, still deny admission unless your parents are baptized.

Similar situation in Alberta, I belive.

The whole thing is bizarre. I attended Catholic schools in Ontario and Alberta. and my education was perfectly fine and non-dogma-filled. But I still feel they should be dissolved into general public education.

[Acajack]

I have mentioned this before but I went to Ontario Catholic schools (French and also English) for a time in the 1980s.

Religion was very low-key in them back then even though ironically the families of the students probably practised religion a lot more than they do today.

There was no disrespect for other religions or Catho-superiority. I still remember the line "Anglicans are basically the same as us, only without the Pope".

We never really talked about stuff like abortion or homosexuality in a negative light. I distinctly remember a great classroom discussion about abortion when I was about 17 and all the girls in my class were very emotionally pro-choice. There wasn't any pushback on that from the teacher.

It wasn't really different from what I also experienced in a public school during those same years. There was sex, drugs, booze and other teen mischief there just like anywhere else.

These days I have relatives and friends who teach in, and nieces and nephews and children of friends who attend, Ontario Catholic schools. They're not fire-and-brimstone places by any stretch of the imagination but it does seem they have doubled down on their Catholic faith a bit more.

I have said before on here that I've had cousins of my kids say that "Jesus and Mary are real, but everything other religions have is all make-believe".

I have had kids I know observe a minute of silence for aborted foetuses, or lower the school's flag to half-mast in memory of them.

I've read in the media about kids in an Ottawa Catholic school being told that gay rights is not an appropriate topic for a presentation on the struggle for equality and fairness.

I have also read in the media about Catholic schools using taxpayer dollars to bus kids to anti-abortion protests.

All of these things took place in the 2000s, in fact I think they all may have taken place since 2010.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

It's a little more complicated though, in that more than 90 percent fo the students are baptized Catholics. In Ontario, most Catholic boards started admitting more non-Catholic students a few years ago, but you have to apply and basically sign off that you're cool with your kids being Catholicized. The biggest boards, in Toronto, still deny admission unless your parents are baptized.

Really? That seems like it'd be impossible to enforce, and certainly wouldn't hold up to legal scrutiny (after all, it's not like Catholics carry around baptism cards or something). I wouldn't doubt that ~90% of students are of Catholic background, though I still know plenty of non-Catholic Christians and a few non-Christians from school.

According to my Dad, who was an ESL teacher in the Toronto board (now retired), they had been seeing a big increase in Muslim students at many of their schools in recent years as well. He also had lots of students straight from Mainland China (presumably non-Christians).

I do believe teachers have to be Catholic though, or at get some sort of letter of approval from a priest. Not sure if that's still the case or not. I had one teacher who identified as a Buddhist, though as an Italian guy I'm sure he could still pass the Catholic "sniff test" either way.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have mentioned this before but I went to Ontario Catholic schools (French and also English) for a time in the 1980s.

Religion was very low-key in them back then even though ironically the families of the students probably practised religion a lot more than they do today.

There was no disrespect for other religions or Catho-superiority. I still remember the line "Anglicans are basically the same as us, only without the Pope".

We never really talked about stuff like abortion or homosexuality in a negative light. I distinctly remember a great classroom discussion about abortion when I was about 17 and all the girls in my class were very emotionally pro-choice. There wasn't any pushback on that from the teacher.

It wasn't really different from what I also experienced in a public school during those same years. There was sex, drugs, booze and other teen mischief there just like anywhere else.

These days I have relatives and friends who teach in, and nieces and nephews and children of friends who attend, Ontario Catholic schools. They're not fire-and-brimstone places by any stretch of the imagination but it does seem they have doubled down on their Catholic faith a bit more.

I have said before on here that I've had cousins of my kids say that "Jesus and Mary are real, but everything other religions have is all make-believe".

I have had kids I know observe a minute of silence for aborted foetuses, or lower the school's flag to half-mast in memory of them.

I've read in the media about kids in an Ottawa Catholic school being told that gay rights is not an appropriate topic for a presentation on the struggle for equality and fairness.

I have also read in the media about Catholic schools using taxpayer dollars to bus kids to anti-abortion protests.

All of these things took place in the 2000s, in fact I think they all may have taken place since 2010.

That doesn't jive with my experience in the 00s, though I'm sure it's also location dependent.

It does kind of make sense though when you think about it. As our society has become more secular, more of the religious moderates are now non-religious; while the remainder of practising adherents will skew to the more conservative side. It's quite possible that the "average practising Catholic" in Canada in 1990 was more liberal than that in 2020.

Toronto's Catholic schools are kept afloat by new immigrants from places like the Philippines, Latin America, and Africa though, so I think that moderates things a bit, inasmuch as these societies still have a more ingrained culture of practising moderate Catholics, despite being conservative overall (that, and immigrant parents are less likely to get involved in school politics, which is probably a lot of what's driving that kind of stuff).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Really? That seems like it'd be impossible to enforce, and certainly wouldn't hold up to legal scrutiny (after all, it's not like Catholics carry around baptism cards or something). I wouldn't doubt that ~90% of students are of Catholic background, though I still know plenty of non-Catholic Christians and a few non-Christians from school.
.

Perhaps consenting to having your children "Catholicized" is not the right term, but I am pretty sure you need to sign something saying you won't complain about Catholic teachings.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

According to my Dad, who was an ESL teacher in the Toronto board (now retired), they had been seeing a big increase in Muslim students at many of their schools in recent years as well. He also had lots of students straight from Mainland China (presumably non-Christians).
).

Quebec doesn't have any publicly-funded religious schools any more, but we still have private Catholic schools that most everywhere are the legacy "top schools".

We have two of them in my city and yes these schools do draw a lot of non-Catholic families, especially Muslims (generally religious) and Chinese (generally non-religious).

Friends of mine who are Muslim send their kids to a private Catholic school because in their view the "values" there are better than in public schools.

You do need to sign a form acknowledging that you're signing your kid up for a Catholic education, and they're not exempted from religion classes (that tend to be soft) and very sporadic religious celebrations.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have mentioned this before but I went to Ontario Catholic schools (French and also English) for a time in the 1980s.

Religion was very low-key in them back then even though ironically the families of the students probably practised religion a lot more than they do today.

There was no disrespect for other religions or Catho-superiority. I still remember the line "Anglicans are basically the same as us, only without the Pope".

We never really talked about stuff like abortion or homosexuality in a negative light. I distinctly remember a great classroom discussion about abortion when I was about 17 and all the girls in my class were very emotionally pro-choice. There wasn't any pushback on that from the teacher.

It wasn't really different from what I also experienced in a public school during those same years. There was sex, drugs, booze and other teen mischief there just like anywhere else.

These days I have relatives and friends who teach in, and nieces and nephews and children of friends who attend, Ontario Catholic schools. They're not fire-and-brimstone places by any stretch of the imagination but it does seem they have doubled down on their Catholic faith a bit more.

I have said before on here that I've had cousins of my kids say that "Jesus and Mary are real, but everything other religions have is all make-believe".

I have had kids I know observe a minute of silence for aborted foetuses, or lower the school's flag to half-mast in memory of them.

I've read in the media about kids in an Ottawa Catholic school being told that gay rights is not an appropriate topic for a presentation on the struggle for equality and fairness.

I have also read in the media about Catholic schools using taxpayer dollars to bus kids to anti-abortion protests.

All of these things took place in the 2000s, in fact I think they all may have taken place since 2010.

That's interesting and bothersome that catholic schools in Ottawa would be so political with students. The Catholic schools both French and English in my region are very liberal and actually quite secular. Maybe it's the demographics here or maybe because we are a left-wing region. Being pro-life doesn't go over well here and LGBT rights are supported by almost everyone.

I have a family member who is in high school who is LGBT and did Grade 9 at a public school. She switched to a Catholic school for Grade 10 and is getting much more LGBT support there and the religion class teaches about different religions along with Catholicism and has no bias. She has told me that the atmosphere is more inclusive and non-judgemental for so many types of people compared to the public school she was at last year.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Really? That seems like it'd be impossible to enforce, and certainly wouldn't hold up to legal scrutiny (after all, it's not like Catholics carry around baptism cards or something). I wouldn't doubt that ~90% of students are of Catholic background, though I still know plenty of non-Catholic Christians and a few non-Christians from school.

According to my Dad, who was an ESL teacher in the Toronto board (now retired), they had been seeing a big increase in Muslim students at many of their schools in recent years as well. He also had lots of students straight from Mainland China (presumably non-Christians).

Hmm. According to this, non-Catholics are verboten.

There was this story in the Globe a couple of years ago about Catholic boards enrolling more non-Catholics, but not in Toronto.

I don't know how it works in Alberta, but I know my sister just had her child baptized for no reason besides getting into a Catholic school (which is considered "better" by moany people, for whatever reason.)

[esquire]

Interesting that TDCSB rules out non-Catholics.

In Manitoba there is a Catholic school system and it is very Catholic. Some schools more than others, but there is definitely a Catholic philosophy that permeates the schools... they are not Catholic in name only by any measure. As a Catholic myself I appreciate that... I wouldn't be interested in paying tuition fees to have my kids attend a school where things are not any different than in a public school.

But even in those schools, non-Catholics are admitted. As far as I know they have the lowest priority for admissions, but they are there. Similar to Acajack's experience, I am aware of a decent number of Muslim and Sikh kids, as well as kids from non-religious families (mainly Chinese or white folks) attending my kids' school.

[Acajack]

As I said before, I don't find and don't think Catholic schools in Ontario are generally retrograde fire and brimstone types of places, but when you do have a separate faith-based system that is government-funded, it opens the door to certain eye-raising (for public institutions anyway) things from time to time.

People are like that. They tend to use the institutions and tools that you give them.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...tion-1.4549973

[Blitz]

There is no requirement that students be Christian. One of the Catholic high schools in Windsor has a large population of Muslim students simply because it's located in a neighbourhood with a large Muslim population. I went to a Catholic high school and had a nun as a teacher. In one of the mandatory courses we learned all about other world religions as well.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Hmm. According to this, non-Catholics are verboten.

I think this clears it up:

"Non-Catholic children of Non-Catholic parents who are not enrolled in the R.C.I.A./R.C.I.C. program are not eligible for admission to a TCDSB elementary school."

But,

"Secondary schools are open to all students residing in the City of Toronto. Students living outside of Toronto (but within Ontario) may apply to a secondary school without payment of a fee. Placement will be offered only if there is space available."

So high schools are open to all, while elementary schools are technically only for Catholics. Though there seems to be a possible backdoor loophole by declaring intent to convert to Catholicism through the "RCIC Program". No idea what that actually entails though.

Weird that they'd have different requirements for elementary and high schools - and that they can get away with it.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I think this clears it up:

"Non-Catholic children of Non-Catholic parents who are not enrolled in the R.C.I.A./R.C.I.C. program are not eligible for admission to a TCDSB elementary school."

But,

"Secondary schools are open to all students residing in the City of Toronto. Students living outside of Toronto (but within Ontario) may apply to a secondary school without payment of a fee. Placement will be offered only if there is space available."

So high schools are open to all, while elementary schools are technically only for Catholics. Though there seems to be a possible backdoor loophole by declaring intent to convert to Catholicism through the "RCIC Program". No idea what that actually entails though.

Weird that they'd have different requirements for elementary and high schools - and that they can get away with it.

RCIC is just an education in Roman Catholicism, no? You could convert upon completion but there is no expectation that you WILL convert, afaik.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I think this clears it up:

"Non-Catholic children of Non-Catholic parents who are not enrolled in the R.C.I.A./R.C.I.C. program are not eligible for admission to a TCDSB elementary school."

But,

"Secondary schools are open to all students residing in the City of Toronto. Students living outside of Toronto (but within Ontario) may apply to a secondary school without payment of a fee. Placement will be offered only if there is space available."

So high schools are open to all, while elementary schools are technically only for Catholics. Though there seems to be a possible backdoor loophole by declaring intent to convert to Catholicism through the "RCIC Program". No idea what that actually entails though.

Weird that they'd have different requirements for elementary and high schools - and that they can get away with it.

It's a constitutional requirement, without which we might not have had a country. Funded high schools are not part of that ... those are a legacy of the Bill Davis government, and the arrangement when public funding was introduced at the secondary level probably included an agreement that they would be less exclusively Catholic.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It's a constitutional requirement, without which we might not have had a country. Funded high schools are not part of that ... those are a legacy of the Bill Davis government, and the arrangement when public funding was introduced at the secondary level probably included an agreement that they would be less exclusively Catholic.

That makes a lot of sense - thanks. Didn't realize that publicly-funded Catholic secondary schools were such a relatively recent phenomenon.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That makes a lot of sense - thanks. Didn't realize that publicly-funded Catholic secondary schools were such a relatively recent phenomenon.

The change was to extend funding to grades 11, 12, and 13. Prior to that public funding only extended to grade 10.