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  #1181  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 3:35 PM
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  #1182  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 5:24 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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^^^
Ooh swank! I wonder who stays in a place like this in Saskatoon? I know we get a few bussiness heavyweights through town, but I didn't think there would be enough to support a place like this. Accademics don't typically go this high end, and I know we don't get a lot of vacationing movie stars
     
     
  #1183  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Crisis View Post
Because that is where the majority of people in Saskatoon wish to live.
While you may not share their values, neither should you feel entitled to impose your values on others....
I can fully understand your discomfort/offense with how a lot of people on this forum (and more generally) talk about development at the edges of the city as opposed to re-development or densification of existing neighborhoods. I think that there is a more constructive way that we can talk about these issues that is less judgmental and better addresses the key concerns that we all have. I was watching an interview with Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi and I think he summed up the issue quite nicely. To paraphrase, people have the right to live where ever they choose and cities should be open to a variety of developments but we need to make sure that we aren't distorting market forces by subsidizing suburban development at the expense of developing/redeveloping existing neighborhoods.

Here's a link to the video, I hope you find it interesting/useful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6taxe7s1k0
     
     
  #1184  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by socialisthorde View Post
^^^
Ooh swank! I wonder who stays in a place like this in Saskatoon? I know we get a few bussiness heavyweights through town, but I didn't think there would be enough to support a place like this. Accademics don't typically go this high end, and I know we don't get a lot of vacationing movie stars

BHP Executives are the first to check in, as well, Kathy Griffin's crew had asked about staying there... they were unable to accomodate her due to construction.
     
     
  #1185  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ninipanini View Post
I was watching an interview with Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi and I think he summed up the issue quite nicely. To paraphrase, people have the right to live where ever they choose and cities should be open to a variety of developments but we need to make sure that we aren't distorting market forces by subsidizing suburban development at the expense of developing/redeveloping existing neighborhoods.

Here's a link to the video, I hope you find it interesting/useful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6taxe7s1k0
Interesting video clip and nice to see someone taking a reasonable stance on these items. Though, like most politicians, he spoke mainly in generatlites regarding how the suburbs were being subsidized at the expense of existing neighbourhoods. What I gathered from the interview is that the City is picking up the tab on water & sewer services to the new developments, which seems odd, as I always believed that the developments were being undertaken by private developers. It's certainly Calgary's perogotive to charge lots levies relative to the cost of this infrastructure to cover this investment. It will be interesting to see if they proceed with that.

Saskatoon is unusual in that the City itself is the developer of the new residential neighbourhoods. Therefore, it is at their discretion to increase the price for the new lots. For the most part they have been doing so and the new lots continue to sell out quickly. In theory, they could simply hike the price of new lots to a level that makes redevelopment of existing properties more attractive. The risk there is, of course, that the perceived cost of "desirable housing" (new home in a new neighbourhood) will be such that it will hinder migration to our city.

An interesting dilemma and not one that will be solved quickly.
     
     
  #1186  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 7:51 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisis View Post
... While you may not share their values, neither should you feel entitled to impose your values on others....
Ironically, in using the word "should", you are imposing your values

Howver, to address your premise: I have no desire to impose my values on suburbanites, but I continually find their values imposed on me. They drive through and park for free in my neighborhood, bringing with them the dangers and environmental polution of their cars. They complain about taxes, while demanding more roads etc, which results in cuts to services I would use. For example, the city argues that there is no money to replace water supply lines in older neighborhoods, despite aknowleging that they are likely to cause health problems and are well past their useful lifespan, instead asking me to run my tap for 10 minutes every day (even during the watering ban), to clear the potentially toxic lead. At the same time, I am being asked to pay a property tax increase to fund roadways, which I use perhaps 10% of what my suburban friends and colleagues use.

I have no issue with sharing costs for services I do not use, or with people living in whatever style they choose, as long as they recognize the true cost of their choices (environmental, liveability of the city as a whole etc.) and how those costs are imposed on me so that we can arive at a fair compromise. I don't see that happening - Most people I talk to rationalize living in the suburbs by stating that they can't "afford" to live in a central neighborhood (despite spending as much on a suburban house), and then stating that becaue they live in the suburbs, they "have" to drive (conveniently neglecting to lobby for transit) to work and get groceries, and then demanding that the city provide them the means to do so (i.e. bridges, roads, etc.), while simultaneously resisting any attempt to have them pay for said means (witness the ruckus over the mere suggestion that drivers pay for road improvement through a levy on car registration). While I will not "impose" my values on others, I will fight for my right to live my own values without imposition from them.

I call bullshit on the idea that new suburbs pay the full costs of their development through premiums on land sales. If this were true, then our taxes should actually be going down. Economic theory would suggest that as the number of new houses in the city increases, efficiencies should lead to decreased cost per house for shared services, and if those houses were truly paying the full cost of servicing them, and thereby not adding to shared costs, why would shared costs increase?

As I implied, many of my friends and collegues live in the suburbs and I try not to judge them for that choice, but I do take every opportunity to remind them that such choices come at a cost, even if it is deeply burried in "common sense".
     
     
  #1187  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 9:11 PM
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^^^^ well said.
     
     
  #1188  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis View Post
Saskatoon is unusual in that the City itself is the developer of the new residential neighbourhoods. Therefore, it is at their discretion to increase the price for the new lots. For the most part they have been doing so and the new lots continue to sell out quickly. In theory, they could simply hike the price of new lots to a level that makes redevelopment of existing properties more attractive. The risk there is, of course, that the perceived cost of "desirable housing" (new home in a new neighbourhood) will be such that it will hinder migration to our city.

An interesting dilemma and not one that will be solved quickly.
I think it needs to be pointed out that while the City's Land branch is a developer in Saskatoon it isn't the only developer. To my knowledge the land branch once acted as a low cost provider, servicing lots and selling them at cost but were later mandated to set lot prices at market value to allow private developers to compete.

I have also seen some references on this forum about a lack of west side development. It is not as simple a problem as it seems on the surface, sh$t as they say rolls down hill. It also happens that the elevation on the east side of the river is considerably higher than the west side, the waste water treatment plant being on the west bank means that it is easier to service gravity sewers further east. Essentially all of the west sides sewage goes at this moment to the interceptor (circa 1911) that runs along spadina to the treatment plant. As you move further out you lose cover on your sanitary sewers unless the ground elevation increases. With all that taken into consideration to service development further west you need to start pumping sanitary sewage under pressure in a force main. Here is a link to a City of Saskatoon psa for the construction of nearly 14km of force main: http://www.saskatoon.ca/FORUM/Traffic%20...ion-BlairmoreForceMainProjectBegins.aspx

As it says in the psa not only does this allow for further development of the west end of the city but also provides protection against sewer backups on the west side and free's up capacity on the spadina interceptor that can then be used for further densification of the downtown.

Here's a link to the city's blairmore sector development plan, page 29 shows a map of the future neighbourhoods which looks like there are about 8 planned. http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Comm...0Plan%20Amendment%20March%207%202011.pdf
     
     
  #1189  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2011, 2:28 AM
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Originally Posted by socialisthorde View Post
Ironically, in using the word "should", you are imposing your values

I call bullshit on the idea that new suburbs pay the full costs of their development through premiums on land sales. If this were true, then our taxes should actually be going down. Economic theory would suggest that as the number of new houses in the city increases, efficiencies should lead to decreased cost per house for shared services, and if those houses were truly paying the full cost of servicing them, and thereby not adding to shared costs, why would shared costs increase? ".
You're exactly right. The cost of services in the burbs extends far beyond just the roads, streetlights, water/sewer, parks, etc. immediatley adjacent to these homes. New libraries are needed, fire stations, satellite police stations may soon be needed, and the cost to bring services to outlying areas means that roads, water lines, sewer mains, etc. elsewhere in the city need to be expanded. Think about how many miles of road or water line someone building a home in Evergreen will use compared to someone that lives in Nutana. I'm cool with people wanting the surburban lifestyle, but servicing that lifestyle generally costs more than homes in the core.
     
     
  #1190  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2011, 4:09 AM
North_Regina_Boy North_Regina_Boy is offline
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Originally Posted by Brutopian View Post
I tend to agree with you skSK. It is time for some creative thinking on the regional urban planning front to help thwart urban sprawl. Do you think there will ever come a time when Saskatoon and Corman Park will merge into one large "Greater Saskatoon" municipality? Such an entity would, I presume, better allow for ideas like UGBs to be considered.
I would say a greater chance of Warman and Martensville becoming part of the Saskatoon Tax base either before or same time as the populous to the south joining. Plus the space between S'toon and the neighbors to the north provides ample room for industrial expansion and rail line relocation, from which could be serviced from the south and north not to mention an easier commute and an already established road network, and possible rail transit between there and downtown S'toon.
     
     
  #1191  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2011, 4:43 PM
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Health region looking to slash costs

By Lana Haight, The StarPhoenix
October 7, 2011 8:36 AM


Saskatoon Health Region managers are using stopwatches to measure how long patients wait for services at Royal University Hospital in an attempt to slash the cost of building a children's hospital.

Finding out where patients are waiting and for how long is some of the information to be gathered this fall as the redesign of the Saskatchewan Children's Hospital begins.

"We are really looking at how the patient flows through the system and in particular the waits associated with their journey through the system," said the health region's vice-president of acute care, Jackie Mann."

"We are timing some of those waits: As a patient would come into the system, the key steps they take and how long they wait. The idea being if we can look at that time that's waste and reduce it or remove it, we can relook at the design of our facility based on that." [...]

Read more: http://www.thestarphoenix.com/health/Health+region+looking+slash+costs/5516269/story.html
     
     
  #1192  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2011, 8:40 PM
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Any pics on the new downtown Holiday Inn anyone? Must be completed or nearly completed by now. I would be interested in seeing if this is the eyesore and blight on the community that some were claiming it would be. Thanks!

Last edited by Dillweed; Oct 8, 2011 at 8:41 PM. Reason: .
     
     
  #1193  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2011, 5:31 PM
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http://www.thestarphoenix.com/health/Par...ty+Hospital+employees/5522334/story.html

This seems pretty obvious to me and I'm sure all of you. The city is continually running into the issue of no parking, increased congestion. THEY NEED to expand transit, it's that simple. America has proven it dozens of times that expanded suburbs and roadways just lead to more congestion, the ONLY way to remediate this problem is with transit. I don't see how this is so hard for anyone to figure out!
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  #1194  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2011, 6:30 PM
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I love parking issues. Unless city council is dumb it will lead to increased transit.

Let the RUH employees join the 21st century and start taking the bus.
     
     
  #1195  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2011, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dillweed View Post
Any pics on the new downtown Holiday Inn anyone? Must be completed or nearly completed by now. I would be interested in seeing if this is the eyesore and blight on the community that some were claiming it would be. Thanks!
Here you go, a few shots from this morning. I'm guessing it will be spring 2012 before its finished. You can decide for yourself whether it's an eyesore or not.











Saskatoon’s new Holiday Inn in an artist’s sketch
Photo Source and Hotel Info
     
     
  #1196  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2011, 8:24 PM
Dillweed Dillweed is offline
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Thanks Jer nice pics looks like they have a fair amount of work to do yet.
     
     
  #1197  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2011, 11:00 PM
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Not as bad as most on here seem to be complaining about.

Not the greatest, but hey. Beggars can't be choosey.....
     
     
  #1198  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2011, 2:52 AM
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Now I see why people hate the building - not a whole lot windows there for 3 or 4 floors - just big blank plasticy walls. yikes. Its what I imagine apartment buildings look like in Moscow.
     
     
  #1199  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2011, 4:17 AM
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Jigglysquishy

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I love parking issues. Unless city council is dumb it will lead to increased transit.

Let the RUH employees join the 21st century and start taking the bus.
Reply With Quote
The problem, though, is that it won't lead to increased transit, and the transit system is beyond appalling. I teach at U of S, and took the bus for years: I used to walk home, even at midnight and in -40, because at least I was moving, rather than standing in the snow in the bus mall for an hour's wait between buses.

Walking only took 45 minutes. Then I finally renewed my license, and with a car, the commute is 10 minutes, tops, door to door. That includes the walk from the parking lot to my office.

In a town where 'frequent service' is once every half hour and 'regular service' is hourly, asking nurses and doctors who work 12 hour shifts to take the bus isn't on. How are you supposed to get from RUH to Confederation at 3:00 AM? I paid more money to Blueline than it costs to insure my car...
     
     
  #1200  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2011, 4:26 AM
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Now I see why people hate the building - not a whole lot windows there for 3 or 4 floors - just big blank plasticy walls. yikes. Its what I imagine apartment buildings look like in Moscow.
Those floors are the parkade for the hotel.
     
     
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