Canadian Airport Thread II

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by casper

I moved out of Saskatoon about 10 years ago, so the dynamics may have changed. But when I lived there was no way I was going to add a connection in Calgary to get to Toronto or Montreal unless I absolutely had to. It just adds an extra 3-4 hours onto a trip that should only take that long. WestJet from its early days of flying 737-200s has been connecting passengers from Saskatchewan through Winnipeg.

Spot on about Calgary. There is no way that if I'm flying east, I'm going to add extra time connecting through Calgary. I'll take Montreal, Minneapolis, Atlanta or gasp, Toronto (if I'm feeling like taking a big risk dealing with Pearson lol)

[Dominion301]

While there is no clear definition as to what constitutes a focus city, to me it’s any destination that has some non-hub routes (e.g., YWG-YOW) and has some connecting traffic thru the airport on said airline. YWG fits that bill in WS’ world.

At AC, YHZ, YOW, YEG and YYC are focus cities with all of them shrinking (YOW and YYC the most) since 2019. The latter was once a hub and YWG used to be an AC focus city but now all they have are YYZ, YYC, YVR, YUL and seasonal YOW.

As for PD at YWG, I’ll be shocked if YOW is not announced within the next three months.

[zahav]

YVR will continue to lag in international recovery for a while I think, they are growing in select markets sure, but losing that China volume is a big deal. I agree with others, it will be a while before this fully rebounds. And YVR will never be flush with European destinations, it's just reality. We will continue to have the biggies like LHR, AMS, CDG, and FRA, but much more than that is unlikely for many reasons. So traffic will grow from pandemic lows but is limited to how much more than that it can get, the offerings are just very basic and stagnant.

It looks like Eurowings is doing some updates, I checked the YYC flights and their flight offerings are duplicating, a telltale sign they are doing some updates. But so far it appears they are going double daily 5x weekly? Again, not sure if there are some duplications or old flights still in their system until it's formalized, but appears they are adding flights? I wonder if WS will ever take on FRA, it is a massive market for YYC, but of course has competition, which many of their other Euro destinations do not. But it would be head and shoulders above some of their other Euro destinations in terms of traffic demand, but they have more competition. If the WS withdrawl from LGW and the AC withdrawal from FRA has shown anything, it's that even major markets have their limits, and cannot absorb infinite capacity. With all of WS's added capacity, Europe is more than well served, and the cut backs on some routes by major airlines show the market is well served and cannot absorb much more capacity. YVR is the same, there won't be much growth in this market in the foreseeable future. And it's even more challenged because WS is working hard to funnel YVR pax thru YYC for all those new routes like Edinburgh, Barcelona, Rome, etc... Not a lot of impetus for growth in non-stop YVR-Europe at the moment. WS is absolutely working to dominate the YVR-YYC market by promoting the YYC destinations to Europe etc. But the fact that LGW got sacked just shows the overall market is well served and there isn't a lot of untapped demand

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

I wonder if WS will ever take on FRA, it is a massive market for YYC, but of course has competition, which many of their other Euro destinations do not. But it would be head and shoulders above some of their other Euro destinations in terms of traffic demand, but they have more competition. If the WS withdrawl from LGW and the AC withdrawal from FRA has shown anything, it's that even major markets have their limits, and cannot absorb infinite capacity. With all of WS's added capacity, Europe is more than well served, and the cut backs on some routes by major airlines show the market is well served and cannot absorb much more capacity. YVR is the same, there won't be much growth in this market in the foreseeable future. And it's even more challenged because WS is working hard to funnel YVR pax thru YYC for all those new routes like Edinburgh, Barcelona, Rome, etc... Not a lot of impetus for growth in non-stop YVR-Europe at the moment. WS is absolutely working to dominate the YVR-YYC market by promoting the YYC destinations to Europe etc. But the fact that LGW got sacked just shows the overall market is well served and there isn't a lot of untapped demand

When WS removed LGW, adding Frankfurt did cross my mind. This being said, I think the yield potential with additional flights to NRT is far greater. Fares from North America to Japan (and East Asia as a whole) are considerably higher than they were pre-pandemic, and WS should probably expand Asian service as much as they can, in order to tap into that red hot market at the moment.

We'll see what they do. With the freed up 787, they can easily make NRT daily, plus add another route like FRA or ATH, or up frequency to BCN, etc.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

When WS removed LGW, adding Frankfurt did cross my mind. This being said, I think the yield potential with additional flights to NRT is far greater. Fares from North America to Japan (and East Asia as a whole) are considerably higher than they were pre-pandemic, and WS should probably expand Asian service as much as they can, in order to tap into that red hot market at the moment.

We'll see what they do. With the freed up 787, they can easily make NRT daily, plus add another route like FRA or ATH, or up frequency to BCN, etc.

Sounds like there are two additional 787 with their name paint on the side that they walked away from when Boeing was in trouble on the 787. Perhaps it is time to go kick the tires on those two birds and see if Boeing is willing to give them a deep discount to clear out that dead inventory.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by casper

Sounds like there are two additional 787 with their name paint on the side that they walked away from when Boeing was in trouble on the 787. Perhaps it is time to go kick the tires on those two birds and see if Boeing is willing to give them a deep discount to clear out that dead inventory.

That would be great! But I hear that AVH doesn’t like the 787 and “got stuck with” the 7 in current inventory so I have to wonder if he is at all interested in adding those 2 to the fleet (the third apparently went to AC just in time for them to start up YUL-AMS).

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

When WS removed LGW, adding Frankfurt did cross my mind. This being said, I think the yield potential with additional flights to NRT is far greater. Fares from North America to Japan (and East Asia as a whole) are considerably higher than they were pre-pandemic, and WS should probably expand Asian service as much as they can, in order to tap into that red hot market at the moment.

We'll see what they do. With the freed up 787, they can easily make NRT daily, plus add another route like FRA or ATH, or up frequency to BCN, etc.

My prediction is they'll up 2 of NRT and BCN/FCO and add ATH (I'd also say LIS but apparently they got denied the slots)

[SimpleEng]

I'm pretty impressed with YWG's 2023 Q3 pax stats (link).

YWG has 99% of 2019 pax traffic, and even surpassed 2019 levels in August:

• 2023-July - 408,586 vs 2019-July - 423,135
• 2023-Aug - 433,746 vs 2019-Aug - 433,188
• 2023-Sept - 363,370 vs 2019-Sept - 364,774
• 2023-Q3 - 1,205,702 vs 2019-Q3 - 1,221,097

YWG 2023 Q1-Q3 pax traffic is 3.14 million. YOW is not far behind with 3.06 million.

Will YWG be Canada's 6th busiest airport in 2023?

[hollywoodcory]

Eurowings Discover has had YYC-FRA loaded as 12x weekly since September, there's been no schedule changes made. Its basically the 5x weekly they previously served plus the daily service they took over from AC.

WS had strong loads on both LGW/LHR this past summer, so its kind of surprising LGW got out right dropped instead of say reduced.

As for WS, they requested slots for LIS in S24:
https://slotsapi.nav.pt/uploads/slot...lineLISS24.pdf
Presently the slots were denied.

ATH/LIS would be good additions from YYC as neither have much service from Western North America similar to FCO/BCN/EDI.

I've heard rumblings about at least one new route coming, but I'll keep it at that until the information becomes public.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

The down in Europe can probably explained by:

Whatever the reason, YVR's European network is definitely not trending in the right direction. AC removing ZRH next summer won't help.

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Eurowings Discover has had YYC-FRA loaded as 12x weekly since September, there's been no schedule changes made. Its basically the 5x weekly they previously served plus the daily service they took over from AC.

WS had strong loads on both LGW/LHR this past summer, so its kind of surprising LGW got out right dropped instead of say reduced.

As for WS, they requested slots for LIS in S24:
https://slotsapi.nav.pt/uploads/slot...lineLISS24.pdf
Presently the slots were denied.

ATH/LIS would be good additions from YYC as neither have much service from Western North America similar to FCO/BCN/EDI.

I've heard rumblings about at least one new route coming, but I'll keep it at that until the information becomes public.

Doesn't surprise me about LIS. It's a single runway airport, which is at capacity. Will be very hard for new entrants to get slots.
Indeed ATH would make sense. No service there from anywhere west of Chicago.

Originally Posted by hehehe

My prediction is they'll up 2 of NRT and BCN/FCO and add ATH (I'd also say LIS but apparently they got denied the slots)

I think that's asking for too much.

[thenoflyzone]

GTAA reported Q3 2023.

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/co...ses/2023-11-09

12.5 million passengers in Q3, up 12% from last year. Still only a 88% recovery compared to the same period in 2019.

33.8 million passengers carried during the first nine months of the year. Still only a 87.6% recovery compared to the same period in 2019.

[SignalHillHiker]

Westjet is joining our Premier and other officials for a “significant air access” announcement tomorrow in St. John’s. Presumably it’d be a direct connection to Europe being restored? I can’t imagine the Premier being involved for anything less, and he’s been all but saying “send us the bill, just fucking do it” for a year now.

Attending will be:

Premier
Ministers responsible for tourism, industry
VP External Affairs for Westjet
Mayor of St. John’s
Heads of Hospitality NL, YYT Airport Authority, St. John’s Board of Trade

[thenoflyzone]

^ so I guess now we know what they plan to do with their unused LGW frequency.

[ninjakafi_81]

Air Canada Boosts Capacity to Asia Starting December as Airline Continues International Network Diversification

* Vancouver-Hong Kong operates up to 11 weekly flights beginning mid-Dec.
* Capacity nearly doubles between Canada and Japan this winter
* Vancouver-Bangkok flights operates daily during peak winter months, season extended to early May 2024
* New route to Singapore launches Apr. 2024
* Early seasonal resumption of Osaka service starting May 2024

MONTREAL, Nov. 14, 2023 /CNW/ - Air Canada today announced it is strategically boosting its Asia-Pacific network capacity beginning mid-December through to the end of next summer 2024.

"Air Canada's Asia services continue to reflect strong demand and we are boosting capacity to this geographic area as we deploy our international diversification strategy. This winter we are pleased to offer up to 57 flights per week between Canada and Asia, and up to 64 flights per week next summer. Air Canada will have up to double daily flights to Hong Kong and larger aircraft operating to Shanghai during the December holiday and Lunar New Year travel periods. Capacity to Japan increases by 96% this winter compared to last year. Next spring, seasonal Osaka flights resume earlier and larger aircraft will operate to Narita and Seoul," said Mark Galardo, Executive Vice President, Revenue and Network Planning, at Air Canada.

"Our upcoming launch of our new route to Singapore and increased capacity on our successful Bangkok route underscores our continued commitment to investing in fast-growing markets in Southeast Asia. With the investments we have made at our global hub airports linking Air Canada's extensive North American network to our international flights, travelling between North America and Asia is convenient and compelling for leisure and business travellers alike. We look forward to welcoming customers onboard our flights," concluded Mr. Galardo.

https://media.aircanada.com/2023-11-...iversification

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

^ so I guess now we know what they plan to do with their unused LGW frequency.

Could also possibly be more than just LGW.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Could also possibly be more than just LGW.

What other city in Canada's without service to London at present that until March 2020 had it? Hmm, I wonder. Not that I'm expecting that city to land a WS MAX to LGW.

I'm pretty sure WS currently hold 4 LGW daily slots, of which 3 were leased out last summer.

The 73G is the perfectly sized aircraft for YYT-LGW. It's also shorter than YYC-YYT.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

What other city in Canada's without service to London at present that until March 2020 had it? Hmm, I wonder. Not that I'm expecting that city to land a WS MAX to LGW.

I'm pretty sure WS currently hold 4 LGW daily slots, of which 3 were leased out last summer.

The 73G is the perfectly sized aircraft for YYT-LGW. It's also shorter than YYC-YYT.

My hint was less about others getting LGW and that there might be more than just LGW announced from the east tomorrow.

The only thing I'm still unsure about it what's happening to the newly freed up 787 frame.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

What other city in Canada's without service to London at present that until March 2020 had it? Hmm, I wonder. Not that I'm expecting that city to land a WS MAX to LGW.

I'm pretty sure WS currently hold 4 LGW daily slots, of which 3 were leased out last summer.

The 73G is the perfectly sized aircraft for YYT-LGW. It's also shorter than YYC-YYT.

Winnipeg had weekly Saturday summer service to LGW on WestJet's ill-fated 767s in 2018/19.

Newfoundland has historically had air links with Europe; starting with Pan Am's flying boats which landed in Botwood. AC operated YQX-LHR for many years before the flight was moved to YYT in the late 1980's. For a period, the LHR flight was YHZ-YYT-LHR (AC 860) and LHR-YYT-YHZ (AC 861). There were no passengers carried only between the YHZ/YYT leg. Then, AC decided to open the YHZ/YYT leg to passengers. This resulted in YHZ originating LHR bound passengers having to deplane in YYT and for the WB flight, all passengers cleared customs in YYT. There's video of Paul McCartney schlepping through YYT in March 2006 after clearing customs when he was flying to PEI via YHZ with his ex-wife Heather Mills to protest the East Coast seal hunt.

Then, YHZ/YYT were split into two separate LHR flights with the YYT-LHR flight eventually reducing to summer seasonal operated on an A319 until it was suspended due to the pandemic. Flew YYT-LHR in July 2013 and the flight was ~ 50-60% full.

It will be interesting to see what West Jet has planned. They did make YYT a mini transatlantic hub in 2014. Round two perhaps?

[q12]

Halifax's Transatlantic so far scheduled for peak summer 2024:

Discover Airlines YHZ-FRA 4x weekly A330
Condor Airlines YHZ-FRA 3x weekly A330
Air Canada YHZ-LHR Daily 737max8
Icelandair YHZ-KEF 3x weekly 737max8
Westjet YHZ-LGW 4x weekly 737max8
Westjet YHZ-EDI 3x weekly 737max8
Westjet YHZ-DUB 4x weekly 737max8

[Dominion301]

Yikes!

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/co...are&utm_term=1

Ground-level windshear?