Planning underway for new commuter ferry between Bedford and Halifax

[DBaz]

The renderings show direct, covered, close bus connection. I think that will make it a lot more popular.

I’ve used the ferries in London that in some places connect closely with the tube or Elizabeth line. The speed of them, comfort, and on board cafe made them nice.

Hopefully there will be a Timmies on board…

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by DBaz

The renderings show direct, covered, close bus connection. I think that will make it a lot more popular.

I’ve used the ferries in London that in some places connect closely with the tube or Elizabeth line. The speed of them, comfort, and on board cafe made them nice.

Hopefully there will be a Timmies on board…

The design shows tightly packed seating. No Timmies........

[Patrick Matthews]

Most people (myself included) seemed to think it would cross at South Gate. This crosses closer to Glenmont, so will be yet another intersection along the stretch of Bedford highway. I guess that supports someone's vision by making the entire thing a 50km zone.

Parking appears to be all surface, and not significantly bigger (or at all) than the Sackville express terminal parking. This seems short sighted, or worse, a special interest for a small group. Yes there are busses, but where is the future plan for use of the space and density.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Secondly, that study is 5 years old now. Since them immigration has exploded, with lots of those people in new developments around Bedford. Because of that there is far more traffic on the Bedford Highway now (along with just about everywhere else, which HRM seems blissfully unconcerned with).

Max one-directional throughput for a one lane road (which Bedford Highway is in inbound sections) is somewhere around 2,000 cars per hour. I.e. Bedford Highway was likely at capacity in 2019. Yes, there has been drastic population growth since then, but that won't have increased the hourly traffic counts (because it was capacity constrained); it will have stretched out the period considered "peak" traffic, which isn't relevant when comparing the ability to move people.

This ferry has the potential one-way throughput equivalent to 40% of the capacity of the Bedford Highway.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Patrick Matthews

Most people (myself included) seemed to think it would cross at South Gate. This crosses closer to Glenmont, so will be yet another intersection along the stretch of Bedford highway. I guess that supports someone's vision by making the entire thing a 50km zone.

Yes, the crossing is at the north end of the Esquire/Traveller's Motel site. It's been planned that way for at least a decade (though to be fair, that may not have been widely known in the public).

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No, it's boutique, as are many things relating to Bedford.

First, this has a single destination, DT Halifax. Most of those individuals are working office jobs. Sure, some may be flipping burgers or cleaning toilets but I don't think they are driving single-occupancy vehicles to those kind of jobs, or living in Bedford, for that matter. So it is targeted at a boutique clientele.

Secondly, that study is 5 years old now. Since them immigration has exploded, with lots of those people in new developments around Bedford. Because of that there is far more traffic on the Bedford Highway now (along with just about everywhere else, which HRM seems blissfully unconcerned with). If the objective was reducing traffic from Bedford to the peninsula, a single-destination ferry to the DT shore would be far down any list of options.

I mean let's a handle on what we're talking about: a mass transit service travelling between a major suburban node and downtown. I actually would have preferred to see this provincial money go into the BRT system, which would be a lot more bang for the buck, but I hardly think it's fair to present this as a little boutique toy ferry for the Beford bourgeoisie. If this thing takes just a few hundred cars off the Bedford Highway, it's going to make a big difference. If the ridership forecasts are even within spitting distance of accurate, it'll have more riders than the Woodside ferry.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The design shows tightly packed seating. No Timmies........

There are Tim Hortons at both the Halifax and Dartmouth ferry terminals. Halifax's moved outside but may move back in when it's renovated. Even the Woodside terminal has a Tim's next to the ferry terminal parking lot.

Starbucks may be more appropriate though for the new "Boutique" Bedford terminal...

Jokes aside, the new ferry service is a step in the right direction.

[DBaz]

Originally Posted by q12

There are Tim Hortons at both the Halifax and Dartmouth ferry terminals. Halifax's moved outside but may move back in when it's renovated. Even the Woodside terminal has a Tim's next to the ferry terminal parking lot.

Starbucks may be more appropriate though for the new "Boutique" Bedford terminal...

Jokes aside, the new ferry service is a step in the right direction.

No joke… The cafes on the London ones are great. If the buses are scheduled correctly, you walk off the bus directly on to the ferry and it departs right away, so no time in the terminal. The ride is a perfect time to grab your morning drink. Timmies is the Canadian way.


Come to think about it, why do regional rail (not subway, but like Go) have snack cars? Which would include the Elizabeth line.

[OldDartmouthMark]

We're getting another method of transit to move people from the Bedford/Sackville/Hammonds Plains area to the downtown (with links to Dartmouth and Woodside) that doesn't take up additional road space?

Great news! Can't wait until it's up and running.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

We're getting another method of transit to move people from the Bedford/Sackville/Hammonds Plains area to the downtown (with links to Dartmouth and Woodside) that doesn't take up additional road space?

Great news! Can't wait until it's up and running.

Well, you have to get to Mill Cove somehow and that will involve using the roads as very few actually live in the immediate area. I see in the rendering approximately 80 cars and three buses which equals less than one full ferry load of passengers even at the lower suggested passenger capacity of 150. Will there be a stream of cars dropping folks off? Busses too? LRT has the advantage of passengers getting on or off in multiple locations thus lessening the burden on the roadways.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Well, you have to get to Mill Cove somehow and that will involve using the roads as very few actually live in the immediate area. I see in the rendering approximately 80 cars and three buses which equals less than one full ferry load of passengers even at the lower suggested passenger capacity of 150. Will there be a stream of cars dropping folks off? Busses too? LRT has the advantage of passengers getting on or off in multiple locations thus lessening the burden on the roadways.

I'm making the assumption that Halifax Transit will coordinate some express buses that will attempt to take advantage of the new ferry service? There are already buses on the roads (and IIRC there's a plan to add bus-only lanes from Mill Cove through to Sackville?), so how can it be a bad thing to reduce traffic from Mill Cove to DT Halifax?

IMHO we should take advantage of the harbour (like we always have, with the longest running ferry service in North America - it's in Halifax's DNA to have ferry service) with ferries where possible, to augment other transit services as well. I haven't heard one thing that makes me believe that we can expect LRT anytime soon... but if it were to happen, we should have LRT AND ferries AND buses, as they each can be an integral part in a good transit service.

So, I can't really get into the ferry bashing. Frankly, I don't care if people think it's not good enough, or too expensive, or serving only one well-to-do demographic in one location (which is BS, btw... re: integrated service with express buses). If anything is a good use of government money (oh no... government doing something productive with our tax dollars... release the hounds!), increasing transit in a city that's growing at unprecedented rates is it.

So sure, bring on LRT, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use what is basically a free ROW (the harbour) that's there for the taking. We're becoming a big city... we need bigger things and bigger ideas, or we are at risk of maintaining the small-town mentality (and the gridlocked traffic) that everybody complains about.

[Musquodoboit County]

This is great. This is a milestone moment. To get this type of ferry going here will make it so much easier to bring more of these ferries and more terminals along the harbour. My only fear is that if this ferry becomes a financial drain/ disaster, there will be no more additional ferries. In order to make this a success a few thing must happen.
1. High density, walking distance from terminal.
2. Build Bus Rapid Transit lines from Hammonds plains and Sackville to the terminal.
3. Build a multi level parking garage for park-n-riders

[Musquodoboit County]

...#4
Build a "waterfront bustling with pubs and cafes" near this terminal to attract the rising resident population downtown to see the ferry to this Bedford waterfront as an evening out / change up from the same old downtown joints

[Keith P.]

The far greater risk is that this will become an operational disaster, with the financial disaster following that. After all, it is Halifax Transit that is charged with running it.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

...#4
Build a "waterfront bustling with pubs and cafes" near this terminal to attract the rising resident population downtown to see the ferry to this Bedford waterfront as an evening out / change up from the same old downtown joints

All four points are bang-on IMO. In terms of #1, we've seen new builds along Bedford Hwy have to cut multiple floors off their planned height due to complaints by area residents of lost basin views so I wonder if this practice will change? In terms of #2, I wonder if some areas will have BRT service direct to city centre (ie. single fare) while other areas will have BRT service to Mill Cove and be expected to take the ferry to complete their trip to city centre (ie. two fares)?

[Keith P.]

Let's hold our fire on wondering specifics about BRT routes until we actually have, y'know, BRT routes.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Let's hold our fire on wondering specifics about BRT routes until we actually have, y'know, BRT routes.

Just like we should hold off on our comments on how badly the new ferry system will fail until we actually have, y'know, a new ferry system?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Just like we should hold off on our comments on how badly the new ferry system will fail until we actually have, y'know, a new ferry system?

No, that's different. We know we will have an electric ferry running to DT from Bedford. We also know it will be operated by Halifax Transit. We further know that Halifax Transit has demonstrated consistently that they are incapable of running an even halfway-decent transit system based upon decades of poor experiences. They are, it can only be concluded, incompetent.

The BRT should not be run by them, but that is all just wishful thinking at the moment since nothing has been announced. Maybe it will get outsourced to Bert's BBQ and BRT, who knows.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No, that's different. We know we will have an electric ferry running to DT from Bedford. We also know it will be operated by Halifax Transit. We further know that Halifax Transit has demonstrated consistently that they are incapable of running an even halfway-decent transit system based upon decades of poor experiences. They are, it can only be concluded, incompetent.

The BRT should not be run by them, but that is all just wishful thinking at the moment since nothing has been announced. Maybe it will get outsourced to Bert's BBQ and BRT, who knows.

No, it’s not different. To me, it mostly appears that you like to pick winners and losers, based upon your personal preferences. Nothing more complicated than that.

[Nouvellecosse]

HT - from the perspective of an actual frequent user - isn't that bad. Yes some of the stop spacing is too close together and they can be too conservative about adopting new innovations. But most of the challenges are from operating mainly in mixed traffic and the resulting difficulty delivery fast travel speeds and maintaining on-time performance. Which is something largely outside the organisation's control or mandate.