Phoenix | Skye on 6th | 285 FT | 26 Floors

[YourBuddy]

Originally Posted by Obadno

It has nothing to do with the cost. The USA has an asset value of like 200 trillion.

Public housing becomes a den of violence and criminality. its a Socioeconomic issue in the USA that you also get in other mutli-ethnic societies like France, UK etc. Ghettoizing

In Austria and Singapore they don't have those problems so their tiny examples of nice public housing are simply not going to work at scale in the USA

You are better off giving vouchers to help offset rent and let people live where they choose instead of centralizing public housing, we tried it in the 1950's and it was hell by the 1960's, most were torn down by 1990

Eh seems a little weird to me to imply that public housing fails because of multiethnic societies causing crime. Singapore and Austria are not some tiny investment in nice public housing. I mean how are you going to claim Singapore is a hyper wealthy state and economy then also claim that Singapore only has “tiny examples of nice public housing” when 80% of their residents live in public housing, and even some public housing is building very good wealth for their residents

I’d say the more obvious reasons why public housing fails here is that we don’t invest in it enough creating poor desperate people which is always going to lead to crime. When we do we invest we build crap and then don’t invest in its upkeep. I would hope we have better views on how to treat people now than we did in the 1960s.

And yes I would rather incentivize people who need public housing live in areas that provides job opportunities, transit, and social services.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by YourBuddy

Eh seems a little weird to me to imply that public housing fails because of multiethnic societies causing crime. Singapore and Austria are not some tiny investment in nice public housing. I mean how are you going to claim Singapore is a hyper wealthy state and economy then also claim that Singapore only has “tiny examples of nice public housing” when 80% of their residents live in public housing, and even some public housing is building very good wealth for their residents

I’d say the more obvious reasons why public housing fails here is that we don’t invest in it enough creating poor desperate people which is always going to lead to crime. When we do we invest we build crap and then don’t invest in its upkeep. I would hope we have better views on how to treat people now than we did in the 1960s.

And yes I would rather incentivize people who need public housing live in areas that provides job opportunities, transit, and social services.

Throwing more money at the problem is not a solution, the very option of public housing does not seem to work in a large multi ethnic society. Singapore is extremely wealthy and homogenous and essentially a city state.

Public housing can absolutely work in that environment.

in Detroit?

No . It didn't eve work in Detroit when Detroit was an extremely wealthy city

[YourBuddy]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Throwing more money at the problem is not a solution, the very option of public housing does not seem to work in a large multi ethnic society. Singapore is extremely wealthy and homogenous and essentially a city state.

Public housing can absolutely work in that environment.

in Detroit?

No . It didn't eve work in Detroit when Detroit was an extremely wealthy city

I don’t want to get into a debate about wether multi ethnic cultures can live together peacefully, seems odd stance at the very least.

But yes, I think we should spend more money on it. Just because you failed at something once doesn’t mean you will fail again, especially with how different things are compared to the last time there was any real investment in public housing. Especially when part of the problem is you didn’t spend enough. It would be like half funding infrastructure projects and then refusing to build more infrastructure because the half funded infrastructure failed.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by YourBuddy

I don’t want to get into a debate about wether multi ethnic cultures can live together peacefully, seems odd stance at the very least.

But yes, I think we should spend more money on it. Just because you failed at something once doesn’t mean you will fail again, especially with how different things are compared to the last time there was any real investment in public housing. Especially when part of the problem is you didn’t spend enough. It would be like half funding infrastructure projects and then refusing to build more infrastructure because the half funded infrastructure failed.

I don't know what there is to discuss here, I am telling you why it didn't work before, why it wont work now and how it doesn't work even with A LOT of money in places like the UK and France.

If you want to believe it will work with more money because that conforms with how you wish things work there's nothing I can say to dissuade your faith.

[MiEncanto]

I think there's a lot of well-meaning folks on the affordable housing debate. I sympathize with those who would simply like the govt to build more. It seems obvious. The issue I see is it's always a drop in the bucket: 100 units here and there. And they do fall apart because the private sector doesn't care about them. And those projects take a massive amount of work and money. Finally, public housing units are deeply unpopular with average citizens, for reasons legitimate and less so.

I think the best thing local governments can do is spur growth as much as possible with boring, unsexy moves that help everyone. Make permits cheaper and faster. Pre-emptively make zoning less restrictive. Work with developers to increase density. Build public parking to reduce those issues. Beautify areas with parks and trees and right-of-way improvements to make it more attractive for development. Decrease or subsidize Impact Fees for housing that meets whatever criteria you want [cities are never going for it but put your $ where your mouth is]. Pay for curb cuts, sidewalks, utility connections, etc.

And then when developers do wish to build, stop accusing them of "only building luxury." It's the dumbest thing to expect developers to *NOT* want to make a profit. They will almost ALWAYS target the top 25 percentile of renter. They may call it luxury but what they mean is "new" and "the bank needs to see a certain IRR."

And the place that is 10 years old that targeted the top quarter of renters now targets the 60-80 percentile. And the 20 year old units now target the middle sector. And 30 year old units become workforce housing. And older units become low income housing. And on and on it goes. But you don't get more workforce housing unless you get more "luxury" which is a sales pitch for new. I live a stones throw from a bunch of low income apartments. Back in the 70s when they were built, they were called luxury.

[YourBuddy]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I don't know what there is to discuss here, I am telling you why it didn't work before, why it wont work now and how it doesn't work even with A LOT of money in places like the UK and France.

If you want to believe it will work with more money because that conforms with how you wish things work there's nothing I can say to dissuade your faith.

I mean yea I have a pretty difficult time believing that multicultural areas are the reason public housing fails, and not a lack or investment or good ideas.

[Code5]

Hey y'all, remember when this thread used to be about Skye on 6th?

Yeah, man! Its a great highrise. Its really getting up there

Ha! Right? It'll be like, in my backyard. But I don't care, cuz I'm not a NIMBY.

Y'all are clogging this thread up.
Go discuss socioeconomic policies elsewhere. LOL

[gymratmanaz]

What floor is Skye up to?

[TheSpud0]

Looks like they starting on the 13th floor
https://app.oxblue.com/open/clayco/skyeon6thphoenix
Starting to get there

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by TheSpud0

Looks like they starting on the 13th floor
https://app.oxblue.com/open/clayco/skyeon6thphoenix
Starting to get there

Thank you! Post of the day.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by YourBuddy

I mean yea I have a pretty difficult time believing that multicultural areas are the reason public housing fails, and not a lack or investment or good ideas.

please demonstrate otherwise

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by Code5

Hey y'all, remember when this thread used to be about Skye on 6th?

Yeah, man! Its a great highrise. Its really getting up there

Ha! Right? It'll be like, in my backyard. But I don't care, cuz I'm not a NIMBY.

Y'all are clogging this thread up.
Go discuss socioeconomic policies elsewhere. LOL

i think if i fell over to the east it would hit my house!!

OMG! someone might look into my backyard when im out there! i should have opposed this. LOL

[gymratmanaz]

Wear a robe.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

i think if i fell over to the east it would hit my house!!

OMG! someone might look into my backyard when im out there! i should have opposed this. LOL

This is more interesting than talking about the economics of public housing vs. the gplet?

[Code5]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

i think if i fell over to the east it would hit my house!!

OMG! someone might look into my backyard when im out there! i should have opposed this. LOL

You probably live on the same street as me, or the street on the other side north.

That being said, I do love how tall Skye is getting. I only hope those other empty lots to the south along 7th street get developed someday.

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by Code5

You probably live on the same street as me, or the street on the other side north.

That being said, I do love how tall Skye is getting. I only hope those other empty lots to the south along 7th street get developed someday.

8th and garfield, renting that out now. have since moved to 5th ave and portland

i love it too, so bizarre that people use "seeing into my backyard" as a reason to fight towers.

[thespiandave]

Originally Posted by Code5

You probably live on the same street as me, or the street on the other side north.

That being said, I do love how tall Skye is getting. I only hope those other empty lots to the south along 7th street get developed someday.

How many Garfield folks on here? We’re near 9th and Roosevelt! LOVE seeing it!

[Code5]

Originally Posted by thespiandave

How many Garfield folks on here? We’re near 9th and Roosevelt! LOVE seeing it!

There's a few of us! 7th and McKinley! Got that good downtown view~ love the Garfield District.

[Obadno]

Any of you guys in Garfield have any insight on why it appears to be stalling out on the Gentrification game?

I thought years ago it would rapidly gentrify but it seems kind stuck at a level below Coronado

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Any of you guys in Garfield have any insight on why it appears to be stalling out on the Gentrification game?

I thought years ago it would rapidly gentrify but it seems kind stuck at a level below Coronado

Nothing for sale. Looks crappy since there are a lot of slum lords that don't fix up their places and don't want to sell since they are making a fortune will all the rent increases. I know my rents were $500 for a 550 sq ft 1 bedroom 12 years ago and are now $1200 and probably could be more. Unlike a lot of landlords, i plant trees and bushes and keep them watered). Long time residents never really had money to fix up their places. Basically waiting for people to die.