Spring Garden Streetscape

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

There is lots of structured parking so you can drive downtown, park, and then walk around (or use transit or ridesharing). If you want to visit SGR you are best off parking in a parkade then walking around.

This is exactly how I experience the downtown (and is the joy of going DT, actually). Get there, park if you went by car, and then just walk around to wherever you want to go. You get a feel for the city that way, and sometimes discover something that you would have missed if just driving by. It's more for the experience of being there than just picking up an item at a store.

There are more convenient ways to just pick up 'this or that' elsewhere without going in to a busy downtown area (unless you live there, and then you will just walk to get it), and I suspect that most people already did that before the SGR remake.

I can't speak from the perspective of those who deal with mobility challenges, though, so I would be interested if any forum members can add this point of view.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

We went for dinner at the Carlton back in November. Parking was $16.00. I'll spell it out just to confirm...sixteen dollars!!! We felt like we had been fined. How could that cost be considered anything but punitive? Surely no one would suggest that cost is reasonable?
Without a doubt we'll be heading the opposite direction for dinners out in the future. My optician on SGR has lost my business. Last time i visited the optician I parked in a parkade that would not accept debit or credit. By the time I got back from a bank machine the cost to exit had gone up two bucks. I can't remember where it was that I read it, but Councillor Mancini was quoted as saying that HRM is activily discouraging cars from entering downtown...or perhaps he said peninsula. I'd be fine with this if there was a viable public transit option.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

We went for dinner at the Carlton back in November. Parking was $16.00. I'll spell it out just to confirm...sixteen dollars!!! We felt like we had been fined. How could that cost be considered anything but punitive? Surely no one would suggest that cost is reasonable?

On-street parking is free after 6 pm. If you can't find on-street parking. The overnight rate in the Metropark on Hollis Street is $8.50. That's comparable to other garages nearby. This is very inexpensive for city-centre parking in this country. It's really not a burden to add to a night out for dinner.

[someone123]

Does Halifax have good parking apps yet? In theory you can have an app that shows you all of the prices of available spots. You pay by putting in a code at the spot. It is a much better system than coins or credit/debit cards, although I guess they need to provide backup methods of payment.

Around here there are apps but unfortunately there is no standardization so depending on where you go you might need a different app. That is mostly due to there being different municipalities which is not an issue in HRM.

I think parking should be market rate, with the prices set such that there are always some free spots.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

In this case they were adapted to prevent evil motorists from driving on the sidewalks given how dangerously narrow the street has become.

Please enlighten me as to how narrow streets are dangerous.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Please enlighten me as to how narrow streets are dangerous.

If you are an urban planner you should already know that.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Please enlighten me as to how narrow streets are dangerous.

Yeah I agree, not sure how they are more dangerous

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

We went for dinner at the Carlton back in November. Parking was $16.00. I'll spell it out just to confirm...sixteen dollars!!! We felt like we had been fined. How could that cost be considered anything but punitive? Surely no one would suggest that cost is reasonable?
Without a doubt we'll be heading the opposite direction for dinners out in the future. My optician on SGR has lost my business. Last time i visited the optician I parked in a parkade that would not accept debit or credit. By the time I got back from a bank machine the cost to exit had gone up two bucks. I can't remember where it was that I read it, but Councillor Mancini was quoted as saying that HRM is activily discouraging cars from entering downtown...or perhaps he said peninsula. I'd be fine with this if there was a viable public transit option.

I'm downtown quite a bit, I hardly ever pay for parking. Can always usually find on street parking.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

I have not been back in a few years now but SGR was never a great place for driving. It is too busy and complicated with a lot of pedestrians and buses. It's normal for cities to have areas like this and in Europe this area would probably be closed to cars completely with tram service only or something similar. It seems pretty likely Halifax will eventually need more than just buses in mixed traffic for transit in the core.

That section of SGR has seldom been used as a thoroughfare by anything other than buses. It is as has been said too slow given all the existing interruptions to traffic flow. The vehicles using that section are generally patronizing a soon to be out-of-business establishment or transiting one block to a side street in search of parking.

I don't really buy the war on car point about downtown. There is a problem with cars because there are too many people in that area compared to the road capacity, so it is necessary to find other solutions. There is lots of structured parking so you can drive downtown, park, and then walk around (or use transit or ridesharing). If you want to visit SGR you are best off parking in a parkade then walking around. Virtually all new developments add parking.

Some people talk about downtown businesses like they are strip malls and you should be able to drive up to "princess parking" in front of each storefront. That is not realistic.

Come on, nobody is saying that. It is indeed a declared war on the private automobile, led by the denizens of the planning dept at HRM aided and abetted by their friends on Council like Mason, Mancini, Cleary and Austin. There is no debate about whether or not that is true as their many statements to that effect have been documented. Thankfully, that is finally starting to sink in with the great unwashed motorist voter and I suspect this will become a serious issue next election when those folks decide they are tired of being branded as the enemy by their political representatives.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I made a point of driving through there last night and I have to say it does look good in person. I can also confirm that the street-side businesses didn't all disappear as had been originally predicted...

From a motorist's perspective it is no worse than before, as there were always parked cars, street bump-outs for patios, taxis, etc. blocking the side of the road anyhow. If anything it was easier to drive as there were less distractions in the form of people opening car doors or pulling out of parking spaces right in front of you, etc.

I can see where there is no longer any room for a bus to pull over to load/unload that it would be a little slower during busy times, but I'm not sure if that would even be an issue as pedestrians were always the deciding point on how long it would take you to drive through SGR. That, and people driving through to 'people watch'... or 'girl watch' as my friends and I did in our younger days (not sure if that's a thing anymore, or at least not pc enough to be outwardly admitted today?).

Anyhow, it won't matter after June. I'm split on the transit-only thing, TBH. I think overall it will be for the better, but I am curious on how people who arrive by car to pick people up or drop them off will be able to navigate the side streets. We'll see what happens, as is the purpose of a trial.

I agree, I think it works quite well. No different from before. No one ever parks on Spring Garden anyway. The flow is actually a bit better now.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That section of SGR has seldom been used as a thoroughfare by anything other than buses. It is as has been said too slow given all the existing interruptions to traffic flow. The vehicles using that section are generally patronizing a soon to be out-of-business establishment or transiting one block to a side street in search of parking.



Come on, nobody is saying that. It is indeed a declared war of the private automobile, led by the denizens of the planning dept at HRM aided and abetted by their friends on Council like Mason, Mancini, Cleary and Austin. There is no debate about whether or not that is true as their many statements to that effect have been documented. Thankfully, that is finally starting to sink in with the great unwashed motorist voter and I suspect this will become a serious issue next election when those folks decide they are tired of being branded as the enemy by their political representatives.

Soon to be out-of-business establishments... lol Business will do better than they did before with increased foot taffic.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Soon to be out-of-business establishments... lol Business will do better than they did before with increased foot taffic.

There will not be increased foot traffic. Pedestrian malls have always been a failure.

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There will not be increased foot traffic. Pedestrian malls have always been a failure.

Got any research to back that up?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-11/the-business-case-for-car-free-streets
https://www.scientifique-en-chef.gouv.qc...-for-business-false-french-version-only/

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Come on, nobody is saying that. It is indeed a declared war on the private automobile, led by the denizens of the planning dept at HRM aided and abetted by their friends on Council like Mason, Mancini, Cleary and Austin. There is no debate about whether or not that is true as their many statements to that effect have been documented. Thankfully, that is finally starting to sink in with the great unwashed motorist voter and I suspect this will become a serious issue next election when those folks decide they are tired of being branded as the enemy by their political representatives.

I wish there was. There are a whole list of reasons why cars are bad: environmentally, they pollute and the land use they generate take a ton of space. They discourage walking. They kill lots of people. They are space inefficient, compared to other forms of transport. They're expensive. A large segment of the population (especially the poor, those under 18, and the elderly) can't use them.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by someone123

Some people talk about downtown businesses like they are strip malls and you should be able to drive up to "princess parking" in front of each storefront. That is not realistic.

Oh I won't worry about Princess Parking as the new Princess in Halifax is anyone that owns a bike. The true 1 % ,but shhh don't mention it.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There will not be increased foot traffic. Pedestrian malls have always been a failure.

It's been widely proven that replacing on-street parking with sidewalks and bike lanes improves revenue for businesses on those streets. Nobody is proposing a pedestrian mall - SGR is still accessible by car.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

SGR is still accessible by car.

No it will not be. As of June 1st, cars will be banned from SGR from 7AM to 8PM.

Only busses, bicycles and pedestrians will be allowed. Not even taxis will be permitted.........

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There will not be increased foot traffic. Pedestrian malls have always been a failure.

Nope..not true!

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There will not be increased foot traffic. Pedestrian malls have always been a failure.

Nope..not true! They are generally great success stories!

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

No it will not be. As of June 1st, cars will be banned from SGR from 7AM to 8PM.

So cars will still have access then.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Only busses, bicycles and pedestrians will be allowed. Not even taxis will be permitted.........

Sounds great, honestly. Canadian cities and urban cores need more of this.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I'm pretty sure it's for cabs picking up people in front of Parklane so their not holding up traffic.

I guess this (and/or Access-a-Bus) makes sense. The stone bollard things just seem like they'll get a lot of car doors bonked off of them.