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  #101  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 10:50 PM
Sheba Sheba is offline
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
There are people choosing a lifestyle and ending up on the streets while many others work hard to grab a piece of the economical growth pie and make lives better for themselves
I've been avoiding posting here recently but I couldn't let that go without saying something. Generally people don't choose to become a drug addict and / or homeless. Bad things happen to them and that can become the end result. Once the downward spiral begins it's really hard to get out of it. Do you really want people to die instead of trying to help them get better?
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  #102  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 11:15 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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Originally Posted by CivicBlues View Post
Foreign money is now causing junkies and the mentally ill to go on a rampage on the DTES? LOL that's a stretch even for you
Read up on gentrification, ChangingCity gave an easy to understand snapshot.
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  #103  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 7:08 AM
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I've been avoiding posting here recently but I couldn't let that go without saying something. Generally people don't choose to become a drug addict and / or homeless. Bad things happen to them and that can become the end result. Once the downward spiral begins it's really hard to get out of it. Do you really want people to die instead of trying to help them get better?
(airhead voice) Why don't the homeless, like, just stop being homeless? Duh!
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  #104  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 3:59 PM
cairnstone cairnstone is offline
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(airhead voice) Why don't the homeless, like, just stop being homeless? Duh!
If only it was that easy. And you cant blame one group on the failure. It is a change by government on how we deal with people, and the new social economic norm we have.

Gone are the days we would warehouse people with mental illness. Gone are the days of big business having unions that would have company union sponsored treatment centers. Gone is the world of a career with one company. Now we see so many people fall throught he cracks. Housing is an issue local governments chose to not zone areas for rentals. Builders developers moved into strata buildings that were basically a mix of ownership and grey market rental. Add a country that has promoted our selves to the world as a great place to live. Guess what all those things happened. Add drug abuse to the mix. And you have what we see now in the DTES.

What started out as cheap rents for older mainly men that did not have families to live when they washed out of Blue collar jobs has become a ghetto as bad or worse than inner city any where in the G7.

Can it change yes but you need to start with hurting peoples feelings. And also give up some of our rights to freedoms. Until then we cant help people unless they ask.
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  #105  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 8:27 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I've been avoiding posting here recently but I couldn't let that go without saying something. Generally people don't choose to become a drug addict and / or homeless. Bad things happen to them and that can become the end result. Once the downward spiral begins it's really hard to get out of it. Do you really want people to die instead of trying to help them get better?
Not a single person in this forum ever mentions that every homeless person or drug addict chooses to be one. Even if bad things happen to these people, there are better ways to get them out of the situation instead of ignoring or letting them be. That's why we are highlighting the situation in this forum. Not everyone is the same, but for many, certain choices in life do lead to the downward spiral. Constantly defending them on how they end up in their plight, giving excuses and promoting their lifestyles by giving them free needles, drugs and housing to shoot up are not going to take away their pain, suffering and ultimately early death in the miserable DTES surroundings. We need to call for more actions from the authorities.

Do you really want people to die instead of trying to help them get better?
Perhaps you haven't realized that the current system only serves to "spoon-feed them to their agonizing death".

Last edited by Vin; Aug 28, 2019 at 8:38 PM.
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  #106  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 11:06 PM
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Good thing we've got some modular housing and more on the way, so that we can get people into homes before they start on a downward spiral.

The States tried a War on Drugs, and before that, tried locking people up for vagrancy. Neither worked very well - you need a carrot to go with the stick.
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  #107  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Good thing we've got some modular housing and more on the way, so that we can get people into homes before they start on a downward spiral.

The States tried a War on Drugs, and before that, tried locking people up for vagrancy. Neither worked very well - you need a carrot to go with the stick.
We have a lot of finished modular homes now. I don't know what the time frame is, but I've seen zero improvement. I live relatively close to 2 of the TMH sites. Things aren't noticeably worse, but they aren't better either.
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  #108  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 11:45 PM
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We have a lot of finished modular homes now. I don't know what the time frame is, but I've seen zero improvement. I live relatively close to 2 of the TMH sites. Things aren't noticeably worse, but they aren't better either.
True. The point I'm trying to make is that penalizing the homeless for being homeless isn't going to work either; there needs to be a way to incentivize lawfulness and penalize lawlessness.
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  #109  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 11:47 PM
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True. The point I'm trying to make is that penalizing the homeless for being homeless isn't going to work either; there needs to be a way to incentivize lawfulness and penalize lawlessness.
Agreed. We are back to the 4 pillars strategy, of which we're doing 1, maybe limited amount of 2 others.
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  #110  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 12:20 AM
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Not a single person in this forum ever mentions that every homeless person or drug addict chooses to be one. Even if bad things happen to these people, there are better ways to get them out of the situation instead of ignoring or letting them be. That's why we are highlighting the situation in this forum. Not everyone is the same, but for many, certain choices in life do lead to the downward spiral. Constantly defending them on how they end up in their plight, giving excuses and promoting their lifestyles by giving them free needles, drugs and housing to shoot up are not going to take away their pain, suffering and ultimately early death in the miserable DTES surroundings. We need to call for more actions from the authorities.

Do you really want people to die instead of trying to help them get better?
Perhaps you haven't realized that the current system only serves to "spoon-feed them to their agonizing death".

Where in this thread have I ever promoted their lifestyle? I haven't said any such thing. I've commented that the DTES has been bad for a lot longer than you seemed to realize, and that fixing things isn't a simple matter. You on the other hand...
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I say for those who don't do detox on their own accord, there should be a social mechanism to force them into detox.
That's getting scarily into totalitarianism and getting rid of undesirables.
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  #111  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Good thing we've got some modular housing and more on the way, so that we can get people into homes before they start on a downward spiral.

The States tried a War on Drugs, and before that, tried locking people up for vagrancy. Neither worked very well - you need a carrot to go with the stick.
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
True. The point I'm trying to make is that penalizing the homeless for being homeless isn't going to work either; there needs to be a way to incentivize lawfulness and penalize lawlessness.
Yes. The way things are now in the DTES is pretty much penalizing people for being homeless. If only the four pillars program had happened (instead of the aborted version we got from the 'just say no' crowd) - how different things might be now.
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  #112  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 5:30 AM
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Thumbs down

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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Yes. The way things are now in the DTES is pretty much penalizing people for being homeless. If only the four pillars program had happened (instead of the aborted version we got from the 'just say no' crowd) - how different things might be now.
To be fair, the "just say no" crowd are tough to blame here, as their issue was harm reduction, and they were so unsuccessful that harm reduction is the only one of the four pillars still standing.
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  #113  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 5:36 AM
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Vending-machine opioids a cheap way to save lives, says Vancouver doctor

Camille Bains, The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:53PM PDT
Last Updated Wednesday, September 11, 2019 5:40PM PDT


VANCOUVER - A doctor with an expertise in public health says he will soon be dispensing opioids through a vending machine in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside in order to prevent overdoses from fentanyl-laced street drugs.

Dr. Mark Tyndall said the machine that's been created in Toronto would scan a patient's hand for identification before dispensing a pre-programmed number of hydromorphone pills that are a substitute for heroin.

The eight-milligram pills cost about 35 cents each and focus groups with drug users have suggested most people would need about 10 to 16 pills a day, said Tyndall, who is also a professor of medicine at the School of Population and Public Health at the University of British Columbia.

...

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vending-machin...ctor-1.4588822
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  #114  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 7:48 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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We need politicians with a backbone to deal with this issue.

Sad, sad state:


'It's getting worse and worse': DTES residents say neighbourhood is 'falling apart'
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...part-1.5248298
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  #115  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 7:52 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
Vending-machine opioids a cheap way to save lives, says Vancouver doctor

Camille Bains, The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:53PM PDT
Last Updated Wednesday, September 11, 2019 5:40PM PDT


VANCOUVER - A doctor with an expertise in public health says he will soon be dispensing opioids through a vending machine in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside in order to prevent overdoses from fentanyl-laced street drugs.

Dr. Mark Tyndall said the machine that's been created in Toronto would scan a patient's hand for identification before dispensing a pre-programmed number of hydromorphone pills that are a substitute for heroin.

The eight-milligram pills cost about 35 cents each and focus groups with drug users have suggested most people would need about 10 to 16 pills a day, said Tyndall, who is also a professor of medicine at the School of Population and Public Health at the University of British Columbia.

...

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vending-machin...ctor-1.4588822
Any free drugs will only serve to prolong the eventual painful deaths of any addicts. Should not be a solution to deal with the crisis. Society should make the addicts kick off the habit and become clean again.

Read about Potugal's story about how to deal with its own drug crisis: the decrimminalization of drugs should be better understood and does not mean a free-for-all.


Daphne Bramham: Decriminalization is no silver bullet, says Portugal's drug czar
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/col...gals-drug-czar
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  #116  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2019, 10:30 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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Does anyone care?



Downtown Eastside venue owners, promoters report losses amid increased crime and violence
https://www.vancourier.com/news/down...nce-1.23958582

Worsening conditions are making it so bands won’t perform in Vancouver


Tarmohamed bought the Rickshaw Theatre in 2011, knowing full well its location just steps east of Main and Hastings could be bad for business.

He had little idea at the time that the area would deteriorate to the point it now has.

“It was somewhat tolerable before, but that’s because we’ve normalized it so much,” Tarmohamed said. “What’s tolerable to us, should not be tolerable. It was bad eight years ago, and even then I thought it wasn’t normal. Now it’s 10-fold worse.”

Tarmohamed estimates his 2018 losses were between $50,000 and $75,000, solely because bands don’t want to be in the area. Tarmohamed sees tours that landed at the Rickshaw in years past go elsewhere, typically to the Venue on Granville Street. In some cases, those tours won’t come to Vancouver at all.

Tarmohamed follows up with booking agents and promoters, asking why those shows aren’t coming. The reasons are almost always the same.

“The bands that do come here, they’re like a deer caught in the headlights. These are guys from Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit and New York who are saying, ‘Whoa, this is crazy,’” Tarmohamed said.

It doesn’t help his businesses that musicians the world over post videos and photos on social media of needles, feces and scores of people intoxicated in the immediate vicinity of his venue.

Last summer, a band loaded in the back alley of the Rickshaw as a drug user pretended to be playing darts — except the darts were needles and the dartboard was a telephone poll near the band’s tour van.

Hank Von Hell, former frontman of Norwegian rock band Turbonegro, played the Rickshaw in late August and was initially scheduled to perform somewhere between 60 to 80 minutes. Von Hell cut his set to 40 minutes so he could “get the hell out of the neighbourhood, not the venue,” according to Tarmohamed.

Tarmohamed’s property taxes have doubled since 2011, and he characterizes the value for service as “diminishing.” Condos built in the blocks around the venue over the last three years have exacerbated the problem, creating a cluster-like effect right outside his doors.

He doesn’t begrudge drug users themselves, but characterizes the response from the police and all levels of government as non-existent. Tarmohamed said he has stopped calling the city or VPD for assistance because they never show up.

“It feels like abandonment. It feels like they don’t really care about what goes on here,” Tarmohamed said. “They probably do at some level, but not enough to really do anything about it.”

There goes the neighbourhood

The Courier attempted to speak with as many Downtown Eastside promoters and venue owners to gauge what business and crowds are like in light of the deterioration of the DTES.

Management at the Smilin’ Buddah Cafe declined comment, as did MRG Concerts, which runs the Imperial. Both venues are a stone’s throw from Main and Hastings. Imperial general manager Peter Gordon provided the Courier with a brief statement that read, “I can only say that we strive to provide a great positive shareable experience to all of our guests.”

Everyone who agreed to an interview said business is down, but crime and violence are up substantially. Foot traffic is also on the decrease and young women in particular increasingly won’t travel to shows by themselves. Musicians from other countries who tour the world for a living are overwhelmed by what they see.

Wendythirteen has worked in music promotion for 20 years, having booked shows at numerous venues across the Downtown Eastside, many of which closed around the arrival of the 2010 Winter Olympics.

She now promotes gigs at Pats Pub near Hastings Street and Dunlevy Avenue, where a 50-year-old Surrey man was shot Sept. 22. Two more shootings in the DTES followed over the next 15 hours.

She was verbally attacked by a handful of young gang members while working at Pats the night before: words were exchanged, bottles were thrown and threats were made.

It’s in this context that Wendythirteen has seen the one of the biggest shifts in the neighbourhood over the last three years. She says a code that once existed even among hardened criminals and drug users — don’t use in front of kids, don’t steal in your own neighbourhood, leave the elderly alone — has vanished.

Wendythirteen suggests her attackers on Sept. 21 were likely all around the age of 20.

“I’m a tough girl, but there’s a lot of knives and machetes around these days,” she said. “The entitlement and the rudeness of the addict these days is beyond anything I’ve seen.”

Her crowds are decreasing, though hard numbers weren’t provided. Wendythirteen attributes those dips to two factors: young people leaving the city because of unaffordability and fear of the neighbourhood. Her punk and metal crowds aren’t as affected as the older people who take in jazz and blues gigs.

Owners of the Patricia Hotel, where Pat’s Pub is located, Daryl Nelson and his sister Lindsay Thomas appeared before the police board in mid-July, asking for help because of increased theft and violence in the area.

Jason Puder and Abelardo Mayoral-Fierros have 25 years’ worth of promoting between them, a span that’s seen the two Vancouverites bring more than 1,500 shows to Vancouver venues: the Rickshaw, Astoria, Pats Pub, Pub 340, Red Room and along the Granville Strip.

The majority of Puder’s bookings are at the Astoria, where thousands of dollars’ worth of musical equipment was stolen from a vehicle on Sept. 20. In mid-August, Puder witnessed a man ride his bike through a crowd outside the venue while shooting bear spray at everyone in the vicinity.

Three fires in surrounding properties happened around the same time.

Puder also organizes Western Canada’s largest metal, punk and hardcore gathering, the Modified Ghost Festival. The 2018 iteration was the festival’s most successful over its four-year run, drawing people from across the globe.

The five-day festival wasn’t 20 minutes old when someone tried to break into a tour bus parked next to the Rickshaw.

“The people that had weeklong passes — some from the States, some from Europe, some from other parts of Canada — they were totally mind boggled,” Puder said. “It’s one thing if you’re here for a night, it’s another if you’re in the area every night for five days.”

Mayoral-Fierros’ experiences in the area are largely the same. International bands usually revert to sarcasm and mockery when they arrive at venues to cover up their initial reticence to perform in the area.

It’s after that point that the difficult questions arise.

“First it’s shock,” he said. “Then the comments come around, ‘Why doesn’t someone do something about this?’

@JohnKurucz
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  #117  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 2:13 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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This sums up where things have come and are going.

Quote:
It’s in this context that Wendythirteen has seen the one of the biggest shifts in the neighbourhood over the last three years. She says a code that once existed even among hardened criminals and drug users — don’t use in front of kids, don’t steal in your own neighbourhood, leave the elderly alone — has vanished.

Wendythirteen suggests her attackers on Sept. 21 were likely all around the age of 20.

“I’m a tough girl, but there’s a lot of knives and machetes around these days,” she said. “The entitlement and the rudeness of the addict these days is beyond anything I’ve seen.”
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  #118  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2019, 4:25 PM
scryer scryer is offline
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
This sums up where things have come and are going.
It will take innocent working people getting killed before we see real changes.
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There is a housing crisis, and we simply need to speak up about it.

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  #119  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2020, 8:39 PM
Feathered Friend Feathered Friend is offline
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Safe supply of drugs for DTES residents given green light by Canadian government, says Vancouver

Mayor Kennedy Stewart says details to come, but will focus on users not connected to health-care system
Justin McElroy · CBC News · Posted: Mar 26, 2020 12:07 PM PT | Last Updated: 8 minutes ago

ancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart says the federal government has given the green light for a safe supply of drugs for Downtown Eastside residents in light of the COVID-19 crisis.

"We must tackle the poisoned drug epidemic, something that has already cost us more than 1,000 lines," said Stewart during a news conference where a wide variety of measures to help DTES residents from contracting or spreading the COVID-19 virus was announced.

Stewart said the details of the rollout would come from the provincial government in the days ahead, and would be focused on the 20 to 30 per cent of drug users in the community not already connected with health-care providers and existing safe injection sites.

B.C. Chief Medical Health Officer Bonnie Henry has called for a safer supply of drugs for over a year, saying it would allow drug users to "seek help without the fear of being charged criminally."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...h-26-1.5511149
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  #120  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2020, 9:31 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
Are we supposed to be cheering this? So now government basically becomes a dealer. What incentive is there for addicts to ever get clean?
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