Barrhaven LRT | Proposed

[acottawa]

I think you attributed rogers quote to me.

I just don't see how anybody would find the three transfer plan better than the bus. Until the Trillium line is double tracked I would rather some sort of airport-branded bus (with luggage racks) like Dublin has.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think you attributed rogers quote to me.

I just don't see how anybody would find the three transfer plan better than the bus. Until the Trillium line is double tracked I would rather some sort of airport-branded bus (with luggage racks) like Dublin has.

For tourists obviously it's better than the bus for many reasons. It's not even close.
Maybe it's just me, but if I'm on a subway in a new city, I don't care how many trains I need to take as long as they all belong to the same authority.
If I have to commute to Airport every day for work though, that's another story and I would prefer a direct bus (if it doesn't have to stand in traffic of course)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

For tourists obviously it's better than the bus for many reasons. It's not even close.
Maybe it's just me, but if I'm on a subway in a new city, I don't care how many trains I need to take as long as they all belong to the same authority.

You really think a tourist wants to transfer at South Keys? It's basically the loading dock of a Walmart and can be pretty creepy at certain times.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

You really think a tourist wants to transfer at South Keys? It's basically the loading dock of a Walmart and can be pretty creepy at certain times.

This is 100% true, though I doubt most tourists would know this before boarding for their journey. Nor would they expect this type of area in Ottawa, Canada to be sketchy.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is 100% true, though I doubt most tourists would know this before boarding for their journey. Nor would they expect this type of area in Ottawa, Canada to be sketchy.

Fortunately Tripadvisor would get the word out pretty quick.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by acottawa

You really think a tourist wants to transfer at South Keys? It's basically the loading dock of a Walmart and can be pretty creepy at certain times.

It's not like they're going to build a brand new island platform train station there or anything...

A clean, well lit, station that facilitates transferring to another train. I wouldn't be surprised if Northbound Trillium Line trains are scheduled to arrive at South Keys at the same time as the Airport train just to make transferring that much less of a hassle.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

It's not like they're going to build a brand new island platform train station there or anything...

A clean, well lit, station that facilitates transferring to another train. I wouldn't be surprised if Northbound Trillium Line trains are scheduled to arrive at South Keys at the same time as the Airport train just to make transferring that much less of a hassle.

The Trillium Line does not run on a schedule, so I would be doubtful of any promises of coordination.

"Clean and well lit" has not been the design standard for any other station. Why would this one be different? Even if it is, it is a clean and well lit station in an area that would make many visitors to the city uncomfortable, particularly at times when many flights operate (early morning or late at night).

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[roger1818]

Can we move this discussion to the Trillium Line South LRT Extension (Stage 2) thread?

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

News release from City of Ottawa 2018-09-25 :

https://ottawa.ca/en/news/city-study...tion-barrhaven

Quote:


City to study how to bring light-rail transit and rail-grade separation to Barrhaven
September 25, 2018
Announcements and Events

September 25, 2018 – The City of Ottawa will study how to convert bus rapid transit to light-rail transit to serve Barrhaven commuters. The environmental assessment for this project is being combined with another already underway for rail grade-separations in Barrhaven due to overlapping geographic areas.

The study will determine how best to extend the O-Train Confederation Line 10 kilometres south from Baseline Station to Barrhaven Town Centre, with eight additional stations. The study will examine options for implementing light rail in stages and incorporating transit amenities, such as a maintenance and storage facility, park-and-ride lots and cycling and pedestrian infrastructure.

Completing the environmental assessment will allow the City to seek funding from other levels of government as soon as the next round of infrastructure funding programs are announced.

The combined study includes developing functional designs for rail overpasses at Woodroffe Avenue, Southwest Transitway and Fallowfield Road to increase safety at these crossings.

The City’s Transportation Committee will receive the statement of work for the joint assessment at its meeting on Wednesday, October 3. Based on the outcomes of this study, City staff will make recommendations to the Committee sometime in the fall 2020.

UnQuote.

EnJoy!

[roger1818]

^^^ The city had already announced these as separate EAs but it certainly makes sense to combine them into one. Money certainly can be saved with purpose built overpasses for LRT rather than retrofitting them a few years later.

[Truenorth00]

Now let's see how much the Conservative MPPs for this area can deliver.

[J.OT13]

Eight additional stations where currently 5 exist. Seems excessive. If I were to guess, from Baseline south to Barrhaven Town Centre (with new stations in bold);

Tallwood, 600 meters from Baseline, serving the City archives;
West Hunt Club, 1.6 kms from previous, serving sound stage and Nepean Sportsplex;
Fallowfield, 3.5 kms from previous, serving VIA Rail;
Longfields, 1.6 kms from previous, serving medium density residential area;
Highbury Park, 850 meters '' because new station;
Strandherd, 800 meters, serving major arterial;
Marketplace, 390 meters, serving big box stores;
Barrhaven Town Centre, 300 meters, serving future development.

The last three are way to close to one another. They should realign Standherd to under Strandherd Drive and eliminate Maketplace. The rest seems justifiable.

[acottawa]

I don't understsnd why municipal governments are not forced into "writ period" mode like the federal and provincial governments. This is blatant electioneering using city resources.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Eight additional stations where currently 5 exist. Seems excessive. If I were to guess, from Baseline south to Barrhaven Town Centre (with new stations in bold);

Tallwood, 600 meters from Baseline, serving the City archives;
West Hunt Club, 1.6 kms from previous, serving sound stage and Nepean Sportsplex;
Fallowfield, 3.5 kms from previous, serving VIA Rail;
Longfields, 1.6 kms from previous, serving medium density residential area;
Highbury Park, 850 meters '' because new station;
Strandherd, 800 meters, serving major arterial;
Marketplace, 390 meters, serving big box stores;
Barrhaven Town Centre, 300 meters, serving future development.

The last three are way to close to one another. They should realign Standherd to under Strandherd Drive and eliminate Maketplace. The rest seems justifiable.

I'd guess one at knoxdale (which i think was planned with the original transitway alignment), and that barrhaven center and marketplace would be merged into one.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I'd guess one at knoxdale (which i think was planned with the original transitway alignment), and that barrhaven center and marketplace would be merged into one.

That would be a slightly better alternative.

The City seems to be confusing rapid transit (which is what they are suppose to be building with the fully grade separated Line 1) with local transit (which is more in line with Chiarelli's 2006 N/S Light Rail plan).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That would be a slightly better alternative.

The City seems to be confusing rapid transit (which is what they are suppose to be building with the fully grade separated Line 1) with local transit (which is more in line with Chiarelli's 2006 N/S Light Rail plan).

For comparison, Toronto's Transit City LRTs had stop spacing that were 300-500m with only ~800m for the tunneled section under Eglinton. I'd argue that Ottawa's stop spacing is actually ridiculously high (look at the 1700m between Cyrville and Blair), especially given Ottawa's climate. It makes for fast travel. But then you get a much longer bus ride, lower bus frequencies and larger bus terminals. I really wish Ottawa would target average LRT stop spacing at 800-900m. With nothing greater than 1200m (Bayview to Tunney's at present).

This Barrhaven proposal is pretty reasonable. Arguably just one stop too many.

[J.OT13]

I believe that within the urban area (say uOttawa to Lincoln Fields), they should have re-added more station and re-aligned a few existing ones. This is justifiable in the densest parts of the city, but not in the suburbs. I agree the Barrhaven proposal is only has one (or maybe two) too many stations.

The ultimate build in Orleans, they have again one or two too many (Place d'Orleans, Orleans Town Centre and Tenth Line will be pretty darn close), but Stage 2 east as proposed is pretty decent, with the notable exception of Jasmine Crescent Station's absence in favour of Orleans Boulevard.

In Kanata, I would drop anything beyond the Palladium. Otherwise, stations seem well placed for current and future medium to high density.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Eight additional stations where currently 5 exist. Seems excessive. If I were to guess, from Baseline south to Barrhaven Town Centre (with new stations in bold);

Tallwood, 600 meters from Baseline, serving the City archives;
West Hunt Club, 1.6 kms from previous, serving sound stage and Nepean Sportsplex;
Fallowfield, 3.5 kms from previous, serving VIA Rail;
Longfields, 1.6 kms from previous, serving medium density residential area;
Highbury Park, 850 meters '' because new station;
Strandherd, 800 meters, serving major arterial;
Marketplace, 390 meters, serving big box stores;
Barrhaven Town Centre, 300 meters, serving future development.

The last three are way to close to one another. They should realign Standherd to under Strandherd Drive and eliminate Maketplace. The rest seems justifiable.

I would assume they are talking about the 8 stations shown on the TMP (shown below).

Those are:

• Meadowlands/Tallwood
• Medhurst/Knoxdale
• West Hunt Club
• Fallowfield
• Longfields
• Strandherd
• Marketplace
• Barrhaven Centre

It would be nice if they could merge the last 3 stops into 2 stops somehow (maybe shift Strandherd station further south and delete Marketplace station, possibly replacing it with a station between Highbury Park Dr and Berrigan).

I don't see why you think there are adding new stops. The would actually be removing the following 4 stops used by the 95 et al. (which is a good thing IMHO):

• Woodroffe / David
• Woodroffe / Norice
• Woodroffe / Majestic
• Woodroffe / Nepean Sportsplex

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

For comparison, Toronto's Transit City LRTs had stop spacing that were 300-500m with only ~800m for the tunneled section under Eglinton. I'd argue that Ottawa's stop spacing is actually ridiculously high (look at the 1700m between Cyrville and Blair), especially given Ottawa's climate. It makes for fast travel. But then you get a much longer bus ride, lower bus frequencies and larger bus terminals. I really wish Ottawa would target average LRT stop spacing at 800-900m. With nothing greater than 1200m (Bayview to Tunney's at present).

Although it is being called LRT, as others have said here, it is actually a light metro system, so a better comparison is with the Toronto Subway. Many stations on it are over 1km apart and some are over 2km (Lawrence, to Eglinton for example).

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In Kanata, I would drop anything beyond the Palladium. Otherwise, stations seem well placed for current and future medium to high density.

I have said this before, but I think in Kanata they should drop everything beyond Terry Fox. Didsbury Station is the most useless one, being hidden behind the Dymon Storage building. It will have no bus service and will be a long walk from anything useful. Campeau Station will be withing walking distance of a few single family homes and Paladium Station will primarily serve an auto mall.