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View Poll Results: Should Calgary bid for the 2026 Winter Olympics
Strongly Agree 42 30.66%
Agree 33 24.09%
Undecided / Neutral 19 13.87%
Disagree 16 11.68%
Strongly Disagree 27 19.71%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 3:08 AM
CrossedTheTracks CrossedTheTracks is offline
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
Free if you know where to go. Banff Springs is pay ($8 / 3 hours rings a bell). Not sure about the upper hot springs or sulphur mountain gondola.
They're free. Also the parkade behind Banff Ave is free, though time-limited. As is on-street parking.

Earlier commenters wondered whether Roam should be free -- some hotels (ok, at least one, Douglas Fir, I have no idea how many others) are offering free passes on Roam to their guests. So at least there's some incentive for people staying in Banff to leave their cars at their hotels while wandering the town.
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  #102  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 5:11 PM
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Free if you know where to go. Banff Springs is pay ($8 / 3 hours rings a bell). Not sure about the upper hot springs or sulphur mountain gondola.
So maybe have paid parking partially subsidize the shuttle service?
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  #103  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 3:46 PM
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New poll out showing strong public support for an Olympic bid:

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...-bid-poll.html

Quote:
Calgarians can feel it all right – the Olympic spirit, that is.

In an exclusive ThinkHQ/Metro poll conducted in the days leading up to the opening of the Rio games, 54 per cent of Albertans and 60 per cent of Calgarians said they approve of Calgary entering a bid on the 2026 Winter Olympic Games.
The Globe had an in depth article on a potential Calgary bid as well:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle31396030/

Quote:
Going for gold – again
David Ebner

Three years ago, a small group of Calgarians considered a bid for the 2022 Winter Olympics. They didn’t have much time and the list of interested cities was crowded. The Calgarians didn’t push forward. Other bidders then turned away. Oslo, seen as a favourite, dropped out, as potential costs cut into public support. In the end, there were only two contenders, the fewest for an Olympics in more than three decades. Beijing won, narrowly defeating Almaty, Kazakhstan.

The episode jarred the imperious International Olympic Committee and added urgency to its nascent reforms, dubbed Olympic Agenda 2020. The key changes aimed at costs: making the Olympics less expensive to bid for and to stage.

In Calgary, the Olympic spirit was renewed – and the plan to consider a bid for the 2026 Winter Olympics went public in June. It has the enthusiastic support of the mayor and city council but also attracted criticism, from questions about the IOC – called “deeply corrupt” by one dissenting city councillor – to the value of hosting the Olympics. The last Winter Olympics in Russia cost a fortune and this month’s Summer Olympics in Rio de Janeiro have been beset by problems.

Calgary believes it can set a new standard. The city – mired in a deep recession – sees a second Olympics as the road to new infrastructure: transit, housing, and sports facilities. But organizers believe Calgary can do it on a budget and be a city that helps reshape the Olympics, to put on the big show at a reasonable cost. Calgary has done it well before, in 1988, and is ready to take a lesson from the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, which generated a golden glow and didn’t leave behind piles of debt.
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  #104  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 5:13 PM
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What do you think about a report weighing pros and cons costing $5 million?
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  #105  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by artvandelay View Post

The Globe had an in depth article on a potential Calgary bid as well:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle31396030/
There is certainly a lot to consider, especially given that everyone will want a piece of the pie in terms of pet projects. An arena will certainly cost a lot. I am struggling to understand how an athletes' village could provide low cost housing in the future. It seems to many of us that it would make sense to develop the athletes village on the West Village land. Factor in remediation of the site and construction cost how does it make sense for those properties to be sold as low cost. It seems like a Vancouver Athletes' village waiting to happen. The mayor would like a train to the airport and we are now talking a HUGE chunk of change and that's not even addressing transportation to the mountains.
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  #106  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2016, 6:24 PM
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Yeah, a village could supply low cost housing, but I doubt at any less than $200,000 a unit, with maybe 1300 units in the city, 200-300 in the mountains.

Security would need a temporary base - can't bring in cruise ships! Media village would be a thing too.

Public benefit would be proportionate to public investment in terms of public housing.
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  #107  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
Yeah, a village could supply low cost housing, but I doubt at any less than $200,000 a unit, with maybe 1300 units in the city, 200-300 in the mountains.

Security would need a temporary base - can't bring in cruise ships! Media village would be a thing too.

Public benefit would be proportionate to public investment in terms of public housing.
I forgot about the media village. The '88 media village up on Coach Hill was/is pretty massive. I am trying to think of suitable locations.

Just to put it out there, where would people suggest that the media and athlete villages go?
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  #108  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 4:39 PM
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I forgot about the media village. The '88 media village up on Coach Hill was/is pretty massive. I am trying to think of suitable locations.

Just to put it out there, where would people suggest that the media and athlete villages go?
West Campus would make some sense.
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  #109  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 4:45 PM
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  #110  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 4:46 PM
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  #111  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Innersoul1 View Post
Just to put it out there, where would people suggest that the media and athlete villages go?
Although I would prefer to keep it central, we could possibly use a Media Village to spur development of one of our TOD sites. Transform Motel Village into Media Village? Anderson?
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  #112  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 5:17 PM
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Dream tire kicking at all on parcels up there?
Not currently. Maybe next round.
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  #113  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 6:17 PM
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Bent Flyvberg at Oxford does a lot of research on megaproject management, and his group recently put out a good working paper looking at Olympic cost overruns. Fivethirtyeight has an article: Hosting the Olympics is a Terrible Investment about it, but the original paper is not too technical and worth a read. (Note that the report predates Rio, so their comments on the cost overrun doesn't reflect recent news that the Paralympics are now on shaky ground and in need of additional funding.

Abstract (emphasis is mine):
Quote:
Given that Olympic Games held over the past decade each have cost USD 8.9 billion on average, the size and financial risks of the Games warrant study. The objectives of the Oxford Olympics study are to (1) establish the actual outturn costs of previous Olympic Games in a manner where cost can consistently be compared across Games; (2) establish cost overruns for previous Games, i.e., the degree to which final outturn costs reflect projected budgets at the bid stage, again in a way that allows comparison across Games; (3) test whether the Olympic Games Knowledge Management Program has reduced cost risk for the Games, and, finally, (4) benchmark cost and cost overrun for the Rio 2016 Olympics against previous Games. The main contribution of the Oxford study is to establish a phenomenology of cost and cost overrun at the Olympics, which allows consistent and systematic comparison across Games. This has not been done before.

Main findings of the study are, first, that average actual outturn cost for Summer Games is USD 5.2 billion (2015 level), and USD 3.1 billion for Winter Games. The most costly Summer Games to date are London 2012 at USD 15 billion; the most costly Winter Games Sochi 2014 at USD 21.9 billion. The numbers cover the period 1960-2016 and include only sports-related costs, i.e., wider capital costs for general infrastructure, which are often larger than sports-related costs, have been excluded.

Second, at 156 percent in real terms, the Olympics have the highest average cost overrun of any type of megaproject. Moreover, cost overrun is found in all Games, without exception; for no other type of megaproject is this the case. 47 percent of Games have cost overruns above 100 percent. The largest cost overrun for Summer Games was found for Montreal 1976 at 720 percent, followed by Barcelona 1992 at 266 percent. For Winter Games the largest cost overrun was 324 percent for Lake Placid 1980, followed by Sochi 2014 at 289 percent.

Third, the Olympic Games Knowledge Management Program appears to be successful in reducing cost risk for the Games. The difference in cost overrun before (166 percent) and after (51 percent) the
program began is statistically significant.

Fourth, and finally, the Rio 2016 Games, at a cost of USD 4.6 billion, appear to be on track to reverse the high expenditures of London 2012 and Sochi 2014 and deliver a Summer Games at the median cost for such Games. The cost overrun for Rio – at 51 percent in real terms, or USD 1.6 billion – is the same as the median cost overrun for other Games since 1999.

Given the above results, for a city and nation to decide to stage the Olympic Games is to decide to take on one of the most costly and financially most risky type of megaproject that exists, something that many cities and nations have learned to their peril.
3.1 billion dollars buys a lot of bike lanes or whatever else you may fancy. And I didn't know that the Olympics have never come in at or under budget. (Calgary came in with a 65% cost overrun, which I think just seemed like a great success compared to 118% for Sarajevo or 324% for Lake Placid.)
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  #114  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby View Post
3.1 billion dollars buys a lot of bike lanes or whatever else you may fancy. And I didn't know that the Olympics have never come in at or under budget. (Calgary came in with a 65% cost overrun, which I think just seemed like a great success compared to 118% for Sarajevo or 324% for Lake Placid.)
The full context for Calgary was that:
1. It MADE money
2. We were left with an LRT, an arena, an olympic oval, a new ski resort, Canada olympic park (granted, ski jump is obsolete now) and fully utilized media village

Sure - we could have gotten some bike lanes instead of the cumulative impact of both of the above.
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  #115  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 8:27 PM
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  #116  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 8:37 PM
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The budget generated a surplus yes, but that doesn't mean it made money.
All that stuff is good for Calgary. Would you say that we don't need the green line because it doesn't make us money?
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  #117  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 8:58 PM
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  #118  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 9:59 PM
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I don't know where I stand on the matter of Calgary holding another Olympics, but her are my thoughts over this cost dispute:

1) Will the there be a quantifiable,short-term return on investment? Not a chance.

2) Is the investment worth it at all? Depends who you ask. The Olympics is one way to convince those who typically oppose public spending into supporting it... for nationalism or pride or whatever. The emotional components around Olympics hold a hefty sway.

Basically, the Olympics should be a chance to build what we ought to build and spend what we ought to spend. Not more.

It's like planning a wedding... sure all the rustic decorations look good for the big day, but who's basement are they staying in afterwards? Ask for the gifts you actually need, and be sincere in the thank you cards. We'd be happy to give you anything you want to cover the price of the plate.
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  #119  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 10:08 PM
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Basically, the Olympics should be a chance to build what we ought to build and spend what we ought to spend. Not more.
That's a good point. Folks will want to build space elevators and high speed lines to Edmonton, but if those things only get us to empty space, we shouldn't touch those ideas with a ten foot pole.
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  #120  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2016, 7:48 PM
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Apparently after Sochi and London (as well as Rio) the taste for mega-Olympics each bigger than the last is no longer popular with IOC top brass. What they want are smaller but sold-out venues, intimate and well-attended. Advantage? Calgary! Although to be fair it is probably the most well-used set of sports venues in North America and logically a re-use/refresh of existing venues makes much more sense. Then again when have the games ever been about logic? At least from a business perspective...
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