National Capital Region Beer News

[waterloowarrior]

College Square seems like a strange location to prioritize by the government since it already has an LCBO and Beer Store. Baseline and Clyde/Merivale would have made more sense in terms of addressing gaps. I guess we'll see where the other stores will be.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

It is so unbelievably sad that this counts as "news". Outside of the Arabic countries, with very few exceptions, humans can buy beer in grocery stores.

What a sad province we live in.

It's still a HUGE leap forward. Three Premiers in the past 30 years have tried and failed to loosen the alcohol nanny state.

Most Canadian provinces have these restrictions. Quebec is the exception, not the rule.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

College Square seems like a strange location to prioritize by the government since it already has an LCBO and Beer Store. Baseline and Clyde/Merivale would have made more sense in terms of addressing gaps. I guess we'll see where the other stores will be.

I believe that the government doesn't decide the locations, but rather the government grants licenses by region and by company. So Loblaws for example was awarded 4 Eastern Ontario licenses, and the Loblaws company can allocate those 4 to any of their stores in Eastern Ontario as they see fit.

The one in Kingston is also very near both an LCBO and a Beer Store. So is Brown's YIG in Stittsville.

[1overcosc]

Something cool: the supermarkets selling beer will have wider hours than is available at the Beer Store/LCBO: 9am to 11pm.

All LCBO locations in Kingston close at 10pm, and all the Beer Store locations close at 9pm.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's still a HUGE leap forward. Three Premiers in the past 30 years have tried and failed to loosen the alcohol nanny state.

Most Canadian provinces have these restrictions. Quebec is the exception, not the rule.

In a sense it's not new though, since most if not all provinces allow agency stores in rural areas, which end up being corner stores, grocery stores, hardware stores etc selling beer. If you really want to experience the dangerous world of convenience and grocery stores selling beer in Ontario, there are already 10 within city limits

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's still a HUGE leap forward. Three Premiers in the past 30 years have tried and failed to loosen the alcohol nanny state.

Most Canadian provinces have these restrictions. Quebec is the exception, not the rule.

Yes, Quebec is the exception... however that is basically how the planet operates.

Ontario is dead last among the provinces in terms of the "alcohol nanny state"... and is actually just above Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of government control of public Alcohol sales.

From what I understand, Ms Wynne signed a 10 year deal with the 3 multinational breweries to allow this "token" amount of sales.

The big 3 (Multinationals.. not even Canadian) will profit for a decade. This has nothing whatsoever to do with a "nanny state", and everything to do with government selling its soul to the highest bidder.

It's madness... and so very, very sad that this is how politics operates.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

From what I understand, Ms Wynne signed a 10 year deal with the 3 multinational breweries to allow this "token" amount of sales.

Yes, these deals are valid for 10 years. It's been hinted that after that comes a much broader deregulation to a level similar to Quebec. The 450 alcohol permits that were auctioned off to supermarkets also have a 10 year validity, for example (thus avoiding concerns about possible ISDS lawsuits if the government wants to sell more than 450).

Wynne probably won't be premier in 10 years (even if the Liberals get continuously re-elected, Wynne will probably have retired), so it would be up to a future government to make that call in 2025.

With this reform helping to normalize Ontarians to the idea of beer sales in supermarkets it may finally be politically acceptable to make that final death blow to the TBS system in 2025. It's up to us as citizens to start thinking about it and holding the government's feet to the fire starting in the early 2020s as the deadline looms.

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

The big 3 (Multinationals.. not even Canadian) will profit for a decade. This has nothing whatsoever to do with a "nanny state", and everything to do with government selling its soul to the highest bidder.

It's madness... and so very, very sad that this is how politics operates.

Well yes. The original point of this all is to raise money for infrastructure projects that comes from somewhere other than taxes and general revenues. In this case, it also goes to furthering consumer interests.

Even this is huge for Ontario, a place that has always been massively aversive to alcohol. I'll celebrate it for now with an eye for further reforms in the future.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

... The 450 alcohol permits that were auctioned off to supermarkets also have a 10 year validity, for example (thus avoiding concerns about possible ISDS lawsuits if the government wants to sell more than 450).

What does this mean?

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The original point of this all is to raise money for infrastructure projects that comes from somewhere other than taxes and general revenues. In this case, it also goes to furthering consumer interests.

I'm struggling mightily with this argument. Reign in the teachers and public sector employees, and especially take a hard look at defined benefit pension obligations... and see what kind of money is available for "infrastructure".

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's up to us as citizens to start thinking about it and holding the government's feet to the fire starting in the early 2020s as the deadline looms.

Agree... but we need to start NOW... and there is more than just beer to be concerned about...

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

What does this mean?


I'm struggling mightily with this argument. Reign in the teachers and public sector employees, and especially take a hard look at defined benefit pension obligations... and see what kind of money is available for "infrastructure".


Agree... but we need to start NOW... and there is more than just beer to be concerned about...

Some might argue that further liberalization of alcohol sales could rapidly increase the cost of health-care. That still needs to be a consideration in all this

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

The big 3 (Multinationals.. not even Canadian) will profit for a decade. This has nothing whatsoever to do with a "nanny state", and everything to do with government selling its soul to the highest bidder.

It's madness... and so very, very sad that this is how politics operates.

Great comment (in bold) from the CBC Ottawa article on the matter. I think if you were to search the lobbying that went on between the big supermarket chains, breweries and the Liberals you would see lots of cronyism. If only we could be just done with the LCBO/Beer Store and sell it in regular stores etc.

'What a joke. Mike Harris tried this in 1996 and the unions, and Liberals,wanted to assassinate him.' You can bet that the photo ops tomorrow with the Premier will be cringeworthy with the Premier cracking open a cold one and toasting the wonderful idea her party had for this earth shattering progress into the 19th century

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Some might argue that further liberalization of alcohol sales could rapidly increase the cost of health-care. That still needs to be a consideration in all this

Then make that the issue... but I don't see the rest of the PLANET having this problem.

This is all about breweries (and public sector unions) buying the government. full stop.

[Kitchissippi]

Isn't College Square is 24 hours, I guess they're locking up the beer at a certain hour?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

It is so unbelievably sad that this counts as "news". Outside of the Arabic countries, with very few exceptions, humans can buy beer in grocery stores.

What a sad province we live in.

Seriously, though.

And I love how this is being phased in in "rounds", because ZOMG PEOPLE CANT HANDLE THIS TEENY TINY LIBERALIZATION OF THE BEERS.

And as for me, being centrally located, the closest beer-selling grocery store to me will still be in Quebec.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Yes, Quebec is the exception... however that is basically how the planet operates.

NL corner stores can sell the beer.

AB has alcohol-selling private stores on almost every corner, or so it seemed to my coddled Ontario eyes the last few times I was in Edmonton, Calgary, or a few other smaller centres.

Not sure about any other province I've visited. And until recently, PEI had the weird wink-wing nudge-nudge basement bars everywhere.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I believe that the government doesn't decide the locations, but rather the government grants licenses by region and by company. So Loblaws for example was awarded 4 Eastern Ontario licenses, and the Loblaws company can allocate those 4 to any of their stores in Eastern Ontario as they see fit.

Even that is way too much nanny-statism.

If a retail outlet wants to sell ZOMG BEER, then they should be able to apply for and get a permit. No "regions", no company quotas.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

'What a joke. Mike Harris tried this in 1996 and the unions, and Liberals,wanted to assassinate him.' You can bet that the photo ops tomorrow with the Premier will be cringeworthy with the Premier cracking open a cold one and toasting the wonderful idea her party had for this earth shattering progress into the 19th century

Well, to be fair, even this minor nod to the ZOMG BEER marketplace is better than what the supposed free-market Harris conservatives accomplished.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Some might argue that further liberalization of alcohol sales could rapidly increase the cost of health-care. That still needs to be a consideration in all this

I doubt that the overall consumption will change much. All that will change is the location in which the ZOMG BEER is bought.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

What does this mean?

By putting 10 year limits on everything it's quite plain the government is ensuring it won't tie the hands of future governments on the issue--ie. it won't create a protected class of 450 grocers who have to be appeased in a future deregulation in addition to having to appease the brewers!

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

I'm struggling mightily with this argument. Reign in the teachers and public sector employees, and especially take a hard look at defined benefit pension obligations... and see what kind of money is available for "infrastructure".

The government just did that. We just had that painful year of drawn out negotiations because the government refused to budge from its commitment to a net-zero contract.

There's no political appetite in this province for anything further. McGuinty tried going down this road with Bill 115, and look at how hard that backfired. Even Hudak was forced to back down from his "right to work" proposals. In any event, this "efficiencies can pay for everything" fallacy needs to die. It just encourages bad politics.

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Agree... but we need to start NOW... and there is more than just beer to be concerned about...

What are you on about? This is just beer. Beer in supermarkets. It's a nice thing to have. It doesn't mean much more than that.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Some might argue that further liberalization of alcohol sales could rapidly increase the cost of health-care. That still needs to be a consideration in all this

It's attitudes like this, which are very prominent in Ontario, that have made previous attempts to liberalize the sale of alcohol die on paper, and that encourages the current government to be cautious. We have may changed a lot in the past few decades but fundamentally there's still a deep underlying strain of Ontario The Good.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

This is all about breweries (and public sector unions) buying the government. full stop.

Breweries aren't buying the government. The world isn't some big conspiracy. Calm your tits.

There's a lot to this. The last thing the government wants is an ISDS challenge on its hands.